AMD to Skip a Radeon RX 7700 Series Launch For Now, Prioritize RX 7600 Series, Computex Unveiling Expected

[john_]

It's a little strange to think that even with these price increases, AMD can't offer anything price competitive to Nvidia. This is bad. We are in a de facto monopoly with one company that can, one company that can't and one company that might in a few years.

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

It's a little strange to think that even with these price increases, AMD can't offer anything price competitive to Nvidia. This is bad. We are in a de facto monopoly with one company that can, one company that can't and one company that might in a few years.

It's especially strange since the whole point of having the external memory controllers was to reduce costs.

So they have the benefit of chiplets, and the hiked price of GPUs, yet cant figure out how to make a smaller chip profitable? The chips that are more profitable to make according to EVGA?

Doesnt make sense to me. I think it translates to "We held back on rDNA2 to keep prices inflated, now we have tons of rDNA2 stock that we are trying to firesale and dear god lets not even think of a 7700 series right now".

 

[Minus Infinity]

I think AMD is reassessing making the 7700X 12GB. It would be a huge selling point to make it 16GB on a cut down 7800XT die, with 256 bit bus and price it a bit under the 4070 if it's stronger across the board. Given AMD has been trolling Nvidia over lack of memory making the 7700X also 12GB makes them look hypocritical especailly at the price point we are talking.

 

[bug]

Oh jeez. Inflation is a thing. Increased manufacturing costs is a thing. Higher tariffs is a thing. Trade wars is a thing.

Now imagine nvidia is the ONLY discrete GPU provider in the world. Would you like to reconsider your comment?


Same comment goes to Bug as well.

By the way if the situation was reversed and AMD had 80% market share and Nvidia decided to leave the DIY market, the outcome would be the same. AMD would have sky high prices way worse than what we have now. A single market occupant always hurts the customer no matter the company.

What I was saying is between inflation, demand, supply and everything, we got to the point where Nvidia has stated to see their revenue decline. Which means things went to the point people simply aren't buying anymore. In theory an oligopoly/duopoly is supposed to be better than a monopoly, but in this particular case, it seems prices went as high as they could anyway.

 

[BoboOOZ]

It's especially strange since the whole point of having the external memory controllers was to reduce costs.

So they have the benefit of chiplets, and the hiked price of GPUs, yet cant figure out how to make a smaller chip profitable? The chips that are more profitable to make according to EVGA?

Doesnt make sense to me. I think it translates to "We held back on rDNA2 to keep prices inflated, now we have tons of rDNA2 stock that we are trying to firesale and dear god lets not even think of a 7700 series right now".

I think there are 2 hypotheses why they aren't in a rush:
1 there is a defect with the current architecture that makes it perform below expectations and they are trying to fix it in hardware before launching new SKUs
2 there is still a lot of RDNA2 inventory and they are unwilling to burn the AIBs

But I think they definitely should be able to give a very competitive price in the low end.

 

[john_]

It's especially strange since the whole point of having the external memory controllers was to reduce costs.

So they have the benefit of chiplets, and the hiked price of GPUs, yet cant figure out how to make a smaller chip profitable? The chips that are more profitable to make according to EVGA?

Doesnt make sense to me. I think it translates to "We held back on rDNA2 to keep prices inflated, now we have tons of rDNA2 stock that we are trying to firesale and dear god lets not even think of a 7700 series right now".

Reducing costs is not enough. Higher performance is also needed. And 7900 wasn't the upgrade we where expecting over 6900, especially in RT. And while many will insist that RT is still a gimmick, it does wonders for marketing and sends people to buy even RTX 3050s for... RT. Anyway it seems that performance of 7800 and 7700 series is so bad that AMD can't be competitive over $500. Even against that 4070 at that price. Really bad. They probably can be competitive at less than $500 because NVidia is offering ABSOLUTELY NOTHING there, compared to the 3000 series, except Frame Generation. So the 7600 series will probably offer something better than the 6600 and still be competitive to 4060s.

AMD lost a generation trying to make chiplets work in GPUs. And obviously they failed. I mean their chiplet design is very limited - until they take 2 GPU dies and make them look like a big one I will keep considering as fails - and the performance is not there, meaning they used all their time to validate the new design and architecture that they could really focus on performance.

I believe AMD is having a second Barcelona. Back when they where trying to make the first native quad core CPU, only to lose time, face a TLB bug and watch Intel storming the market with glued dual cores. They lost time back then and they payed it, they lost time now and they are paying it.

 

[ExcuseMeWtf]

More interested in 7500XT, if they make it x16 and give it full encoding/decoding suite.

 

[BoboOOZ]

Reducing costs is not enough. Higher performance is also needed. And 7900 wasn't the upgrade we where expecting over 6900, especially in RT. And while many will insist that RT is still a gimmick, it does wonders for marketing and sends people to buy even RTX 3050s for... RT. Anyway it seems that performance of 7800 and 7700 series is so bad that AMD can't be competitive over $500. Even against that 4070 at that price. Really bad. They probably can be competitive at less than $500 because NVidia is offering ABSOLUTELY NOTHING there, compared to the 3000 series, except Frame Generation. So the 7600 series will probably offer something better than the 6600 and still be competitive to 4060s.

Well, they need to beat Nvidia in marketing and mindshare, but that's not happening anytime soon, so if the only reasonable option is to undercut them in price performance. They can't beat them in features because Nvidia is a much larger company and is basically setting the rules of the market (RT, upscaling, frame generation), it's completely unreasonable to expect AMD to catch up to them unless Nvidia becomes complacent( never happened until now).

AMD lost a generation trying to make chiplets work in GPUs. And obviously they failed. I mean their chiplet design is very limited - until they take 2 GPU dies and make them look like a big one I will keep considering as fails - and the performance is not there, meaning they used all their time to validate the new design and architecture that they could really focus on performance.

I believe AMD is having a second Barcelona. Back when they where trying to make the first native quad core CPU, only to lose time, face a TLB bug and watch Intel storming the market with glued dual cores. They lost time back then and they payed it, they lost time now and they are paying it.

I disagree here, they made many changes on this generation, introducing both double purpose CU and chiplets, it's not unreasonable at all to have some hiccups on such a large archiotecture change. I think it's still a success none the less and it allows them to have a chance in the future to challenge Nvidia with R&D of their own (chiplets and 3D cache) instead of trying to beat Nvidia on its own rules, which is doomed to failure.

 

[amd64skater]

Reducing costs is not enough. Higher performance is also needed. And 7900 wasn't the upgrade we where expecting over 6900, especially in RT. And while many will insist that RT is still a gimmick, it does wonders for marketing and sends people to buy even RTX 3050s for... RT. Anyway it seems that performance of 7800 and 7700 series is so bad that AMD can't be competitive over $500. Even against that 4070 at that price. Really bad. They probably can be competitive at less than $500 because NVidia is offering ABSOLUTELY NOTHING there, compared to the 3000 series, except Frame Generation. So the 7600 series will probably offer something better than the 6600 and still be competitive to 4060s.

AMD lost a generation trying to make chiplets work in GPUs. And obviously they failed. I mean their chiplet design is very limited - until they take 2 GPU dies and make them look like a big one I will keep considering as fails - and the performance is not there, meaning they used all their time to validate the new design and architecture that they could really focus on performance.

I believe AMD is having a second Barcelona. Back when they where trying to make the first native quad core CPU, only to lose time, face a TLB bug and watch Intel storming the market with glued dual cores. They lost time back then and they payed it, they lost time now and they are paying it.

Yeah the 7000 series is really not that much of an upgrade from the 6950 XT. Yes it has way more vram. And now they have the 6950 XT at around $600. Why buy the 7900 not worth it.

 

[bug]

Yeah the 7000 series is really not that much of an upgrade from the 6950 XT. Yes it has way more vram. And now they have the 6950 XT at around $600. Why buy the 7900 not worth it.

Yeah, the new chiplet design was supposed to reduce manufacturing costs and give us better prices as a consequence. Something went terribly wrong somewhere and every keeps mum about it.
We were al appalled at 4070(Ti) pricing, but it now looks like Nvidia knew something we didn't

 

[john_]

Well, they need to beat Nvidia in marketing and mindshare, but that's not happening anytime soon, so if the only reasonable option is to undercut them in price performance. They can't beat them in features because Nvidia is a much larger company and is basically setting the rules of the market (RT, upscaling, frame generation), it's completely unreasonable to expect AMD to catch up to them unless Nvidia becomes complacent( never happened until now).

They don't really need to offer parity in features with Nvidia. Raster and RT performance and improved FSR is needed. Frame Generation could come later. Unfortunately they did something wrong, with 7900 series underperforming in the end. I believe they where probably targeting performance close to 4090, not something fighting the 4080 and that only in raster. If 7000 series is really underperforming, then probably 7800/7700/7600 are also below expectations and while the ridiculous pricing of 4080 and 4090 was givving them room to sell the two 7900 models, the... ridiculous pricing of 4070 and 4070 ti is still low enough to make them having a problem to market 7800 and 7700. Maybe they cut them way more than they should and they can't sell them even at $700 and $500.

I disagree here, they made many changes on this generation, introducing both double purpose CU and chiplets, it's not unreasonable at all to have some hiccups on such a large archiotecture change. I think it's still a success none the less and it allows them to have a chance in the future to challenge Nvidia with R&D of their own (chiplets and 3D cache) instead of trying to beat Nvidia on its own rules, which is doomed to failure.

Well all those changes might pay off in a generation or two, but for now they are losing this train. They managed to come close with 6900 to Nvidia and they blew it with 7900. When something is working, don't fix it they say. RDNA 2 was working, they "only" needed to double ray accelerators in every CU and at the same time increase the number of CUs. Instead we get something that is promising for the future, but a failure for now.

And no it's not a success. If Nvidia was dropping the price of RTX 4080 at $950, AMD would have to do what? Drop prices by $200 or just stop producing the 7900 cards? Can they lower prices in those two cards or are they expensive to produce? The only reason 7900 sells is the prices of 4080 and 4090.

 

[dirtyferret]

Oh jeez. Inflation is a thing. Increased manufacturing costs is a thing. Higher tariffs is a thing. Trade wars is a thing.

Oh jeez someone fails to understand facts
My business pays a higher % tariff than does the GPU business yet our prices have not increased anywhere near the GPU jump
Our manufacturing cost has also gone up but yet again nowhere near the jump of the GPUs
Our two best years in business were 2020 & 2021, just like AMD (70& increase in 2022 Q2 to last years Q2) & Nvidia (record breaking profits up 46% from Q1 2022)
And we are in a far more competitive business than GPUs (more brands) yet we have never been sued for GPU price fixing like Nvidia & AMD (ATI) have.

Now imagine nvidia is the ONLY discrete GPU provider in the world. Would you like to reconsider your comment?

No I will not reconsider my comment because 1) it's factually accurate unlike yours and 2) I never said anything about Nvidia or AMD being a discrete GPU provider. You simply got pantsed in your previous comment and are attempting to pivot the conversation to an agreebale latter statement in order to get someone to agree on your former statement, which was inaccurate. A desperate move in an attempt to prove a wrong point.

 

[sethmatrix7]

Not much reason to release the 7700 when their 6800 and 6950 are beating the competition in that bracket

 

[BoboOOZ]

They don't really need to offer parity in features with Nvidia. Raster and RT performance and improved FSR is needed.

So you're asking them to do what Nvidia is doing and to do it better than them. Do you think it is reasonable?

Well all those changes might pay off in a generation or two, but for now they are losing this train. They managed to come close with 6900 to Nvidia and they blew it with 7900. When something is working, don't fix it they say. RDNA 2 was working, they "only" needed to double ray accelerators in every CU and at the same time increase the number of CUs. Instead we get something that is promising for the future, but a failure for now.

And no it's not a success. If Nvidia was dropping the price of RTX 4080 at $950, AMD would have to do what? Drop prices by $200 or just stop producing the 7900 cards? Can they lower prices in those two cards or are they expensive to produce? The only reason 7900 sells is the prices of 4080 and 4090.

AMD have more leeway to drop prices than Nvidia. In fact the prices on the 7900XT are dropping exactly because resellers have more margin on the AMD cards than on Nvidia ones. The chiplet approach allows them to have competitive prices in a recession. I think they have the right long term strategy, keep a healthy growth and healthy margins as a company. Should they spend 4X more to make something stronger that the 4090? I don't think that would be a good strategy, even if many users want it.

 

[Frode Bergeton Nilsen]

Focusing on the 6600 replacement, in this market, makes every bit of sense. They need a real budget options. It needs to be $300 or below. It also need to offer something, and not be just cut-down everything. It actually does not really matter if performance is just on par with the say the 6600, as long as they actually cut the prize. If they actually keep the TBP low, in the current market, that is a really, really, good thing. Both for need for smaller cooler, lesser VRM, less noise, less power supply. Incrasing the VRAM to 12GB, would be really welcome to.

 

[Punkenjoy]

AMD do not do huge price competition because it's pointless for now. Right now the mind share of AMD is just not high enough and the mind share of Nvidia is just so dominant.


People that are willing to buy AMD will do it whenever the GPU is 10-15% cheaper or 50-60% cheaper. Doing a price war just to get the same amount of people buying their products doesn't really make sense. Would a GFX really cheaper really move the needle? I mean they were always the best bang for the bucks and people still choosed Nvidia.

If people were way more willing to buy AMD, it would make sense to make a price war. But right now, not that much.

People view that fight from their point of view and it's normal, but from the point of view of AMD management, they prefer higher margin for the same volume and from their point of view, RDNA market share is fine. They are in Xbox Series, Playstation, Samsung SoC and on plenty of APU.

In the end, if they price 6950xt vs 4070, is that really a problem that they don't fight it with a 7700 XT? Those might have a high yield on a much cheaper nodes, could make sense for them. And in the end, many will still just buy Nvidia anyway.

Like we said frequently, of all the people wanting cheaper price from AMD, the vast majority just want that so they can buy their Nvidia cards for cheaper.

 

[MrDweezil]

Will they skip the RX 7800 too?

I've said it elsewhere but its clear that RDNA3 hasn't brought them any cost savings over RDNA2, so other than power consumption they can't really beat their own discounted 6000 product stack.

 

[Denver]

Idk you guys, everything seems sketchy, this just seems like they dont want some inbetweener that can work against them atm...their prices are too high, so are Nvidia's but damn it, that is what competition is for.
If you want to do something about that 80 / 10 split on Steam....promotion and good value is what you need AMD, RDNA so far isnt what Ryzen was/is.

Like I know, ok, I know that Cyberpunk has become an Nvidia sponsored (heck borderline made) tech demo, I know its not even close to everything but marketing works and AMD's offering is lacking there and basically everywhere that is RTX (Unreal 5's Lumen/Nanite might bring things back to some balance but for now that isnt a thing), if you are going to spend 900 freaking dollars on a gpu, Im sure you want to enjoy it for atleast 3 years right?
But with FSR 3.0 stll just being a concept and FSR2.0 needing extra work (for a while now) its looking to me like a tough sale.

The most high-end products seem to be rather meh apart from the ridiculously priced and power consuming RTX4090.....

So who really cares about an rx7600? I say release the RX6800 replacement, RX7800 and drop the prices all around.....but hey, what do I know.

Apparently the rx 7600 and below will be manufactured in 6nm, and the die will be quite cheap, so AMD is expected to have a lot more room to move forward on the performance/dollar basis... My two cents.

 

[Dr. Dro]

More and more, my initial suspicion that Navi 32 isn't a competitive product (power/performance-wise) against NVIDIA's offerings (RTX 4070 and 4070 Ti) seem to make sense. This is one of, if not the most popular segment after all, and mindful that AMD is a business, they aren't going to skip this and give it freely to their competitor without a fight unless they have an insanely good reason to do so.

Delaying them as much as possible to avoid being laughed out of the room by reviewers is one of the single biggest reasons I see for them to withhold its release indefinitely.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

More and more, my initial suspicion that Navi 32 isn't a competitive product (power/performance-wise) against NVIDIA's offerings (RTX 4070 and 4070 Ti) seem to make sense. This is one of, if not the most popular segment after all, and mindful that AMD is a business, they aren't going to skip this and give it freely to their competitor without a fight unless they have an insanely good reason to do so.

Delaying them as much as possible to avoid being laughed out of the room by reviewers is one of the single biggest reasons I see for them to withhold its release indefinitely.

I think it has to do with it likely having 6800XT/6900XT performance and having to be priced almost identically 550-600 usd to make a profit.... They likely want to get rid of 6950XT inventory before this happens regardless. The other issues they are facing is the 7900XTX has dropped 40 usd from it's MSRP and the 7900XT a whopping 120 usd from it original MSRP in just 4 months they probably want to see how far they drop before releasing a 7800XT/7700XT. They also seem to be trying to sell 6750XT for 400 usd so that further complicates this general price range.

 

[Vya Domus]

More and more, my initial suspicion that Navi 32 isn't a competitive product (power/performance-wise) against NVIDIA's offerings (RTX 4070 and 4070 Ti) seem to make sense.

It really doesn't make sense.

Does it really get more laughable than the 4070 ? It has the same perf/price as the 7900XT, a card at least 200$ more expensive. You're telling me AMD can't make a cheaper card that, at the very least, matches the perf/price of their own higher end offerings ? How would that even work ?

Come on man, you must realize how little sense that makes.

 

[AusWolf]

Does RDNA 3 scale this badly? Or is it that the chiplet design is too expensive to manufacture for a truly mid-range card? Shame.

 

[bug]

It really doesn't make sense.

Does it really get more laughable than the 4070 ? It has the same perf/price as the 7900XT, a card at least 200$ more expensive. You're telling me AMD can't make a cheaper card that, at the very least, matches the perf/price of their own higher end offerings ?

Come on man, you must realize how little sense that makes.

For reasons unknown, that's exactly what AMD has just said. For a while longer, they either can't do it or it doesn't make sense for them to do it.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

It really doesn't make sense.

Does it really get more laughable than the 4070 ? It has the same perf/price as the 7900XT, a card at least 200$ more expensive. You're telling me AMD can't make a cheaper card that matches the perf/price of their own higher end offerings ?

Come on man, you must realize how little sense that makes.

View attachment 292900

Just look at the 7900XT and arguable better card than the 4070ti yet it has dropped in price a ton since launch.... While the 4070ti seems to be holding it's price. Think about it this way if AMD wanted 900 usd for a card that barely performs better than the 6950XT what where they originally going to ask for the 7800XT lol.

Does RDNA 3 scale this badly? Or is it that the chiplet design is too expensive to manufacture for a truly mid-range card? Shame.

It's really odd at this point it's been 4 months and we haven't even heard about any possible specs for the 7800XT yet Nvidia has released 4 cards in a similar span and likely will launch the 4060/4060ti soon.

 

[BoboOOZ]

Just look at the 7900XT and arguable better card than the 4070ti yet it has dropped in price a ton since launch.... While the 4070ti seems to be holding it's price. Think about it this way if AMD wanted 900 usd for a card that barely performs better than the 6950XT what where they originally going to ask for the 7800XT lol.

This is because margins on Nvidia cards are thin and volumes are high, there's no room for significant price cuts, unless somebody just wants go go bankrupt.