Reddit Communities Go Private in Protest Over Policy Adjustments

[T0@st]

Thousands of dicussion communities on Reddit have now shut doors to public access—warning signs started to appear online over past weeks, with community leaders drumming up support for a protest against the social news site's policy changes, including a strategy to monetize access to a vast pool of user data. For example the highly popular r/hardware subreddit is now "a private community"—unregistered users are greeted with a succinct message on the front page: "This subreddit is temporarily closed in protest of Reddit killing third party apps, see /r/ModCoord and /r/Save3rdPartyApps for more information." News sites are reporting that close to a total of 3500 subreddits have joined the "blackout" effort. According to the BBC this includes "five of the 10 most popular communities on the site - r/gaming, r/aww, r/Music, r/todayilearned and r/pics - which each have memberships of more than 30 million people."

A group message was shared by a moderation collective last week: "On June 12th, many subreddits will be going dark to protest this policy. Some will return after 48 hours: others will go away permanently unless the issue is adequately addressed, since many moderators aren't able to put in the work they do with the poor tools available through the official app. This isn't something any of us do lightly: we do what we do because we love Reddit, and we truly believe this change will make it impossible to keep doing what we love." A moderator (speaking to the BBC anonymously) said that the protest will be effective due to "strength in numbers," which will presumably grab the attention of Reddit's executive team.




They explained the though process behind the virtual march: "If it was a single subreddit going private, Reddit may intervene. But if it's half the entire website, then you feel a lot more pressured. This is a completely volunteer position, we don't receive any financial compensation, and despite that, we do like to take it quite seriously. Our entire community is supporting us against this change...It feels good to be able to have the power to say: 'We will not continue to moderate our communities if you push these changes through...If it's almost the entire website, would they destroy what they've built up in all these communities, just to push through this highly unpopular change that both the mods and users of Reddit are overwhelmingly against?"

Reddit's policy changes will introduce sizable charges for "premium access," which effectively kill off the need for popular third-party Reddit applications - such as Apollo, Reddit is Fun, Sync and ReddPlanet - that grant users the ability to browse the site via a customizable interface. Apollo developer Christian Selig claimed last week that the new premium model could result in him having to shell out $20 million to keep his app going: "Going from a free API for 8 years to suddenly incurring massive costs is not something I can feasibly make work." He has since outlined plans to shutter the service: "Apollo will close down on June 30th. Reddit's recent decisions and actions have unfortunately made it impossible for Apollo to continue. Thank you so, so much for all the support over the years."

Reddit chief executive Steve Huffman commented on the subject of protests last Friday—his platform "needs to be a self-sustaining business" and he informed critics: "We respect when you and your communities take action to highlight the things you need, including, at times, going private...We are all responsible for ensuring Reddit provides an open accessible place for people to find community and belonging." A Reddit spokesperson also proposed to the BBC that Apollo was "notably less efficient" when compared to rival third-party interfaces. Part of the defense statement outlines that the firm spends "multi-millions of dollars on hosting fees" and reiterates Huffman's view that Reddit "needs to be fairly paid" for its services and continued support of third-party apps: "Our pricing is based on usage levels that we measure to be comparable to our own costs." Reddit has outlined policies in the past where external application developers would not be charged, but the spokesperson has declared that a few of them will require paid access from now on.

View at TechPowerUp Main Site | Source

 

[sethmatrix7]

Spez gotta be seething right now.

That gameplan of profiting off 3rd party apps better than their own is backfiring hard

 

[chrcoluk]

Got my reddit help in just in time last week I guess.

For desktop combination of old reddit and reddit enhancement suite.
Phone, diode app, but might try out that apollo app as never heard of it until now.

 

[de.das.dude]

And, reddit is down

 

[Solaris17]

I mean it’s just API access. Mods still have controls on the sub reddits and this doesn’t affect normal users other than.

- random communities shutting down in protest
- people can’t use third party apps

I really tried to be on people’s side but this just isn’t a big deal to me, or the average user.

To me it really just seems like the third party app developers that already steal your data pouting because they have to buy it now.

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

They'll all come crawling back in a week. They already do it for free, the actual paid mods can simply remove the free ones and find replacements from the rest of reddit.

 

[thesmokingman]

Bunch of selfish thirds getting mountains of data for free.

 

[R-T-B]

Phone, diode app, but might try out that apollo app as never heard of it until now.

They are close down on the 30th due to said API changes, so goodluck with that.

I mean it’s just API access. Mods still have controls on the sub reddits and this doesn’t affect normal users other than.

- random communities shutting down in protest
- people can’t use third party apps

I really tried to be on people’s side but this just isn’t a big deal to me, or the average user.

To me it really just seems like the third party app developers that already steal your data pouting because they have to buy it now.

It's a big deal to large community moderators, but moderators are a neccesary part of making reddit function.

They'll all come crawling back in a week. They already do it for free, the actual paid mods can simply remove the free ones and find replacements from the rest of reddit.

Just like Tumblr, I'm sure.

Reddit may survive this but I don't see it being what it once was if they don't cave.

 

[Solaris17]

reddit function.

Meh they can go function with the built in tools. Its there fault they got used to using third party shit. I just dont see the issue, and I dont see how people can be this invested. If it costs these companies millions its because there app is beating the shit our of reddits endpoints. Not because a single API call is $99,999,998.98

I will just keep going to the site and reading all my shit. It all still works for me. Good for Reddit.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[R-T-B]

Meh they can go function with the built in tools.

On a large community? lolno. Reddit will just die. What you'll see as an enduser is just it fallback to being a largely unmoderated hellhole like 4chan or something. That will cost them more in advertising than this could ever earn.

 

[thesmokingman]

Read the article on theregister, the tpu source is crap.

"The Reddit Data API was ostensibly released to help developers build apps and services for Reddit users by allowing access to posts and other info hosted on Reddit. It's also used by academics, researchers and "social listening tools" to get access to Reddit data, the company said, but some people are using it excessively.

While not naming companies like Google and OpenAI directly, Reddit CEO and cofounder Steve Huffman told The New York Times in an interview that Reddit "is a home for authentic conversation" online, and as such "the Reddit corpus of data is really valuable," to third parties.

"Crawling Reddit, generating value and not returning any of that value to our users is something we have a problem with," Huffman opined. "It's a good time for us to tighten things up. We think that's fair."

Hello LLM's, no free lunch.

 

[R-T-B]

Read the article on theregister, the tpu source is crap.

"The Reddit Data API was ostensibly released to help developers build apps and services for Reddit users by allowing access to posts and other info hosted on Reddit. It's also used by academics, researchers and "social listening tools" to get access to Reddit data, the company said, but some people are using it excessively.

While not naming companies like Google and OpenAI directly, Reddit CEO and cofounder Steve Huffman told The New York Times in an interview that Reddit "is a home for authentic conversation" online, and as such "the Reddit corpus of data is really valuable," to third parties.

"Crawling Reddit, generating value and not returning any of that value to our users is something we have a problem with," Huffman opined. "It's a good time for us to tighten things up. We think that's fair."

Hello LLM's, no free lunch.

A lot of third party tools that have to close over the new pricing changes have also posted their backend source to prove they do not in fact, harvest data.

Certainly that happens but that is not the issue most are concerned with at all.

I'll be clear I barely use reddit anymore since the only subreddit that interested me was banned for dubious reasons, but as a former mod of said subreddit, I know the arguments are valid.

 

[thesmokingman]

A lot of third party tools that have to close over the new pricing changes have also posted their backend source to prove they do not in fact, harvest data.

Certainly that happens but that is not the issue most are concerned with at all.

And you're ignoring Reddit's POV.

 

[R-T-B]

And you're ignoring Reddit's POV.

I'm saying reddit is nothing without it's community. Their only POV should be to maintain that, or just close up shop today because defeat is inevitable otherwise.

I'm also saying their argument makes no sense against half the pricing choices on the API.

 

[chrcoluk]

I mean it’s just API access. Mods still have controls on the sub reddits and this doesn’t affect normal users other than.

- random communities shutting down in protest
- people can’t use third party apps

I really tried to be on people’s side but this just isn’t a big deal to me, or the average user.

To me it really just seems like the third party app developers that already steal your data pouting because they have to buy it now.

Does it affect reddit enhancement suite?

On mobile reddit is unusable without an app, the default website is absolutely horrific.

 

[Imouto]

Discord and Telegram are warming up.

 

[WorringlyIndifferent]

What you'll see as an enduser is just it fallback to being a largely unmoderated hellhole like 4chan or something.

Except 4chan actually has useful information and people will tell you the truth, because they don't have to worry about some crazed political activist trawling through their post history to find out who they are in real life and doxxing them because they dared to question [the current thing].

For specific communities on reddit, personal finance for example, it's an advantage to have more permanent threads; you may not get the answer right away, but eventually someone is likely to see it and respond. But what this change will accomplish is that the people who care are just going to leave, and guess what: the people who care are 99% of the reason anyone visits that awful, astroturfed website. The people who care are the ones answering questions and making reddit useful; drive them off and you don't have reddit anymore, you just have political propaganda and bot posts.

 

[Steevo]

Reddit has become and been somewhat helpful but mostly toxic

 

[Imouto]

I love how some people in this thread are siding with Reddit while +7k subs have gone dark already (+2b subscribers combined). There are only two possible endings: Reddit backpedals or it dies charging what they wanted because they don't know what the fuck they are doing.

Reddark

An open source website to watch subreddits going dark

reddark.untone.uk

 

[R-T-B]

Except 4chan actually has useful information and people will tell you the truth

Yes, the home of QAnon tells only useful info and the truth. Friggin lol.

Look, reddit has issues but I mean, come on, you can't be serious.

 

[bobbybluz]

For me Reddit has a few useful subreddits but is mostly "for entertainment purposes only". Bad moderation, trolls, highly ignorant posters and vast amounts of misinformation in most of the forums I follow on there. On the other hand I've found some extremely valuable tech resources on there plus being a cat lover I enjoy the feline related forums. It's free and at times good for a few laughs.

Yes, the home of QAnon only tells useful info and the truth. Friggin lol.

Look, reddit has issues but I mean, come on, you can't be serious.

Two of my brother-in-laws are QAnon zealots. Both are insane.

 

[R-T-B]

For me Reddit has a few useful subreddits but is mostly "for entertainment purposes only". Bad moderation, trolls, highly ignorant posters and vast amounts of misinformation in most of the forums I follow on there. On the other hand I've found some extremely valuable tech resources on there plus being a cat lover I enjoy the feline related forums. It's free and at times good for a few laughs.

Much my experience. The site is chock full of its own brand of issues but still has moments.

Two of my brother-in-laws are QAnon zealots. Both are insane.

My uncle is in on that and... wow, how do you handle two of them?

 

[bobbybluz]

I ignore them when they go on their rants. At family gatherings we're social to each other but otherwise there's not much communication. Thankfully nobody in that family is into tech.

 

[chrcoluk]

Reddit has become and been somewhat helpful but mostly toxic

It is a good resource at times, but it can be yeah very toxic and moderation in many subreddits is extremely heavy handed, and good luck now days if you have a new reddit account with no rep.

 

[Athena]

I love how some people in this thread are siding with Reddit while +7k subs have gone dark already (+2b subscribers combined). There are only two possible endings: Reddit backpedals or it dies charging what they wanted because they don't know what the fuck they are doing.

Reddark

An open source website to watch subreddits going dark

reddark.untone.uk

Problem here is, the 3rd party apps want their cake and don't want to share.

Apollo dev said he makes $500,000 from subscriptions, and was giving $0 to Reddit.
That is not fair, a API does cost to build and upkeep and all the extra stuff.

What Reddit has done is put a price tag that is a bit higher than other companies charge (Google / AWS / Microsoft and so on).

Though, they do say it still is free for open source apps or apps that don't charge people money, and that seems pretty fair does it not?
Those devs aren't making money, so Reddit gives them a pass.

It is only the 3rd party apps that are commercial (for profit) is where this is targeted, and yes, those 3rd party people SHOULD pay something for Reddit's API usage

The only question is, how much should they pay, and that is the part both sides should get together on and talk about it.


Oh, and also, 7K subreddits out of 3,125,000 total subreddits is a joke, barely a blip.

I think Reddit's mobile app is trash, and their new layout on the desktop is also trash, they should hire one of those 3rd party people to fix it, otherwise, when old.reddit goes down, then adios.