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AMD Ryzen 9 5950X3D & 5900X3D Historical Prototypes Demoed in Gamers Nexus Video

T0@st

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Gamers Nexus has uploaded a video feature dedicated to the history of AMD's Zen CPU architecture—editor-in-chief and founder Stephen Burke ventured to Team Red's Austin, Texas-based test and engineering campus. Longer and more in-depth coverage of his lab tour will be released at a later date, but today's upload included an interesting segment covering unreleased hardware. The Gamers Nexus crew spent some time looking at several examples of current and past generation AMD 3D V-Cache CPUs. Prototype Ryzen 7000-series Zen 4 designs were shown off by principal engineer Amit Mehra and technical team member Bill Alverson. They also brought out older 5000-series Zen 3 units that never reached retail—the 16-core Ryzen 9 5950X3D was demonstrated as having a 3.5 GHz base clock, and it can boost up to 4.1 GHz. The 12-core Ryzen 9 5900X3D had 3.5 GHz base and 4.4 GHz boost clocks.

Team Red only sells one AM4 3D V-Cache model at the moment, in the form of its well received Ryzen 7 5800X3D CPU. It was released over a year ago, but recent price cuts have resulted in increased unit sales—system builders looking to maximize the potential of their older generation Ryzen 5000-series compatible mainboards are snapping up 5800X3Ds. AMD could be readying a cheaper alternative, with previous reports proposing that a "Ryzen 5 5600X3D" is positioned to take on Intel's 13th Gen Core i5 series (with DDR4). The unreleased Ryzen 9 5950X3D and 5900X3D have 3D V-Cache stacks on both of their CCDs (granting 192 MB of L3 cache), which is unique given that all retail 3D V-Cache CPUs (released so far) restrict this to a single CCD stack. Apparently AMD decided to stick with the latter setup due to it offering the best balance of performance and efficiency, plus gaming benchmarks demonstrated that there was not much of a difference between the configurations.




The Gamers Nexus video description states: "This didn't make the final cut for our upcoming, in-depth lab tour of AMD's testing & engineering campus in Austin, Texas, but the stories told (and the unreleased products shown) were too interesting to cut entirely -- so we branched out the discussion."


It continues: "This (video) covers some of AMD Zen's history from a side conversation with Amit Mehra and Bill Alverson at AMD, discussing the many challenges of initial bring-up, products that get pitched and some that don't make it to market, and how Zen almost didn't make the original showing in 2016. AMD's Ryzen CPUs launched to the public in 2017, but this content looks at the behind-the-scenes of what led up to that launch."

View at TechPowerUp Main Site | Source
 
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AMD is going to make a killing with this!

Bring out the 56003D and I will mist probably but it tomorrow if the price is right.
 
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AFAIK these are historical prototypes.

I am surprised they didn't do a dual CCD 3D cache - would be really interested to see how these stack up
 
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I am surprised they didn't do a dual CCD 3D cache - would be really interested to see how these stack up

Well they have visibly done it ...
 
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AFAIK these are historical prototypes.

I am surprised they didn't do a dual CCD 3D cache - would be really interested to see how these stack up

They mention in the video that the gaming performance was identical to the single CCD chips. I'd guess amd made some market analysis decision that the people who care about the perf of dual ccd stuff is either not worth the extra cost of more SKUs, more validation, etc... or amd thinks those customers are willing to buy something higher up in the stack anyway.
 
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The problem with Dual X3D stacks is that the main benefits for main stream consumers/gamers is limited to single CCD workloads. What software currently is seriously utilising MORE than 8 cores? So the 2nd CCD doesnt benefit from the extra cache. In professional workloads (databases/AI work etc) it would be a benefit but then things like Memory capacity would be a bottleneck.

What I would love to see in maybe the HEDT space is something like a 4 channel 4 X3D CCD layout as there would be enough horsepower in workstation loads while not impacting serious datacenter marketshare with limited core/memory counts but enough for serious workstation setups to be worth the extra cost.
 

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i want a 5600x3d with double the cache of 5800x3d.
 
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OMG OMG:eek:. There are actually prototypes of 5900X3D/5950XD. This means AMD might had them in plans for release at time or maybe even still has. Just that working prototypes exist, gives me a sligtly higher hopes for the that yummy 5950X3D i could really use to better match my RTX 4090. Actually could become real, now we know it´s possible for suchs chips to work on AM4.

 
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Considering the boost clock of the 5950x is 4.1Ghz that doesn’t seem very nice for gaming or productivity. I understand why they didn’t do it
 
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Considering the boost clock of the 5950x is 4.1Ghz that doesn’t seem very nice for gaming or productivity. I understand why they didn’t do it
What? More like 4.9 and 4.4 all core.
 
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OMG OMG:eek:. There are actually prototypes of 5900X3D/5950XD. This means AMD might had them in plans for release at time or maybe even still has. Just that working prototypes exist, gives me a sligtly higher hopes for the that yummy 5950X3D i could really use to better match my RTX 4090. Actually could become real, now we know it´s possible for suchs chips to work on AM4.


Well, a 7800X3D is miles faster than the 5800X3D. And also a 7900X3D (or 7950X3D) is miles faster than a hypothetical 5950X3D.
Forget AM4 and hypotheticals 5950X3D etc. Having a 4090, Zen 4 is the only option.

 
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The problem with Dual X3D stacks is that the main benefits for main stream consumers/gamers is limited to single CCD workloads. What software currently is seriously utilising MORE than 8 cores? So the 2nd CCD doesnt benefit from the extra cache. In professional workloads (databases/AI work etc) it would be a benefit but then things like Memory capacity would be a bottleneck.

What I would love to see in maybe the HEDT space is something like a 4 channel 4 X3D CCD layout as there would be enough horsepower in workstation loads while not impacting serious datacenter marketshare with limited core/memory counts but enough for serious workstation setups to be worth the extra cost.
The cc'd is more of an issue. Even if games could use more then 8 cores anytime a process needed the cache resources on the other cc'd there would be a massive latency penalty. That's the kind of thing that must be coded for ahead of time.
 
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Well, a 7800X3D is miles faster than the 5800X3D. And also a 7900X3D (or 7950X3D) is miles faster than a hypothetical 5950X3D.
Forget AM4 and hypotheticals 5950X3D etc. Having a 4090, Zen 4 is the only option.

I have a 4090 and 5950X , do great at 4K , Zen 4 is not the only option .
 
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AMD already demoed the 5900X3D, though I'm sure whether it had dual or single 3d cache.
I have a 4090 and 5950X , do great at 4K , Zen 4 is not the only option .
At 4k I think any good 8 cores CPU is good enough for gaming. It doesn't really make sense to spend money on the CPU unless you have the best GPU.
 
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OMG OMG:eek:. There are actually prototypes of 5900X3D/5950XD. This means AMD might had them in plans for release at time or maybe even still has. Just that working prototypes exist, gives me a sligtly higher hopes for the that yummy 5950X3D i could really use to better match my RTX 4090. Actually could become real, now we know it´s possible for suchs chips to work on AM4.

Count me in as well! AMD did mention that more X3D on AM4 wasn't completely out of the picture; they finally did bring out a second in the 5600X3D, and there's still a slim hope of at least an 5950X3D with 1 X3D CCD and 1 normal CCD like the 7950X3D.

Although I'd love for them to just go dual X3D CCDs, picking the top efficient bins of 5800X3D CCDs.
 
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I wish they had made these available, I would have picked one up rather than the 5900x I have now, as it would have been better for my workloads.
 
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If the 5950X3D had released, I would not have purchased my i9-13900KS, even if the EDC bug had never been fixed (issue redundant for X3D). It's unfortunate, that would be a killer power-user chip.

In the video they also shown the 64-core Threadripper 5990X "Chagall" processor (Milan HEDT) that they never released before pulling the rug under TRX40 chipset adopters, as well as a revision A0 sample of Zen 1 from the very first tray. It's been an enlightening video to watch, but to me, more of heavy confirmation bias towards one of the multiple grudges I've accrued with AMD over time.
 
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They mention in the video that the gaming performance was identical to the single CCD chips. I'd guess amd made some market analysis decision that the people who care about the perf of dual ccd stuff is either not worth the extra cost of more SKUs, more validation, etc... or amd thinks those customers are willing to buy something higher up in the stack anyway.
Yep, same performance in gaming as the single CCD apparently hence their decision not to release. With Zen 4 however they did two 3D parts with dual CCDs and the common response was 'wait for the 7800x3D'. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.
 
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I have a 4090 and 5950X , do great at 4K , Zen 4 is not the only option .

Still, the logical upgrade is the 7X00X3D. Not the hypothetical 5950X3D.
If you had a 4080 like me, it would make some sense, meaning that you don't want to lose the 16 cores while you get the 3D cache for gaming and wherever else is useful.

But pairing a 4090 with anything else than the latest and greatest?....
 
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Yep, same performance in gaming as the single CCD apparently hence their decision not to release. With Zen 4 however they did two 3D parts with dual CCDs and the common response was 'wait for the 7800x3D'. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

It's easy to sell that "gaming performance is the same so whatever" lie, but it's painfully obvious that both of these parts and Threadripper were never released as to prevent it from being predatory towards Epyc's lucrative market share, and that remains a constant with the 7950X3D today - 16 Zen 4 cores with high frequencies and X3D would knock out the entire entry-level server market. If you're buying a CPU like this, you clearly have more than just gaming in mind.

Still, the logical upgrade is the 7X00X3D. Not the hypothetical 5950X3D.
If you had a 4080 like me, it would make some sense, meaning that you don't want to lose the 16 cores while you get the 3D cache for gaming and wherever else is useful.

But pairing a 4090 with anything else than the latest and greatest?....

The truth being that 5950X3D with the full 192 MB L3 is likely to stomp the daylights out of the 7950X3D in cache sensitive applications.
 
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It's easy to sell that "gaming performance is the same so whatever" lie, but it's painfully obvious that both of these parts and Threadripper were never released as to prevent it from being predatory towards Epyc's lucrative market share, and that remains a constant with the 7950X3D today - 16 Zen 4 cores with high frequencies and X3D would knock out the entire entry-level server market. If you're buying a CPU like this, you clearly have more than just gaming in mind.

The truth being that 5950X3D with the full 192 MB L3 is likely to stomp the daylights out of the 7950X3D in cache sensitive applications.
+1

I'm not sure if the 5950X3D would be that good.
The 7950X3D has double L2, miles higher operating frequencies and boosts and comes with DDR5....
You have to find a very specific bench/task that uses as much cache as possible to make the latter fall in front of the 5950X3D.
 
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