AMD Radeon RX 7600 Slides Down to $249

[AusWolf]

Good luck running latterday crap at native 4K on Ultra settings using this card. It will cry and beg you for dropping some settings below Ultra.

It's also insuffiicient for native 1440p on Ultra at 144 Hz or higher mark. Upscalers are the necessary poison here as well. And I'm not criticising 3090, don't get me wrong, this one is more than solid. Game developers' urge to make games as badly as possible is what's criticised.

Then drop it below Ultra. Not that Ultra and High, or even Medium are so much different these days anyway.

Other than that, I agree. Using bad optimisation to sell upscaler tech is disgusting to say the least.

 

[Dr. Dro]

I'm not entirely sure what you expect AMD to "do better" at. The arguments I see above seem more like nit-picking than actual arguments to me. At least as an owner of both AMD and Nvidia cards, I don't see any of those issues manifest anywhere. If you're a developer, and you absolutely need CUDA, I understand. Other than that, your arguments sound a bit made-up to me (no offense).


I see you've got a 3090. In my opinion, comparing any kind of upscaling with that level of performance at hand is a bit silly. I would just run everything at native res.

Honestly you may feel that way due to owning both, if you went all-in on AMD I guarantee you would eventually be bummed by the obvious problems... as soon as you ran into something that doesn't work and 4 years down the road, there's no fix... and yes, I run everything native regardless, I'd sooner drop settings. It's a road I've been down before. It snowballs from there.

What i'm getting at is that "good enough" isn't good enough, they need to strive to be the best.

 

[AusWolf]

Honestly you may feel that way due to owning both, if you went all-in on AMD I guarantee you would eventually be bummed by the obvious problems... as soon as you ran into something that doesn't work and 4 years down the road, there's no fix... and yes, I run everything native regardless, I'd sooner drop settings. It's a road I've been down before. It snowballs from there.

What i'm getting at is that "good enough" isn't good enough, they need to strive to be the best.

I would agree with you if I still had my 5700 XT, but I've been using various RDNA 2 cards for about a year now, and I've yet to encounter one single problem. It's basically been an Nvidia-like experience so far.

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

I would agree with you if I still had my 5700 XT, but I've been using various RDNA 2 cards for about a year now, and I've yet to encounter one single problem. It's basically been an Nvidia-like experience so far.

Ironically the only rDNA2 problem I had was when micro$h@ft decided it knew better then me which drivers to install and kept back dating AMD's drivers.

 

[AusWolf]

Ironically the only rDNA2 problem I had was when micro$h@ft decided it knew better then me which drivers to install and kept back dating AMD's drivers.

That has happened to me with Nvidia and Intel iGPU drivers as well. Annoying, though.

 

[evernessince]

Honestly man I'm not looking for a fight, and that I'm so critical of AMD sometimes is because I know they can do better. I have an Nvidia GPU out of chance, speaking for myself I've always had a thing for Radeon cards - but so far AMD hasn't given me reasons to celebrate. Seems like they just keep self owning like that.

The statement towards AMD fans wasn't explicitly directed at you, sorry if it came out that way: but it's a general trend I see. AMD can do better. I know it, I've seen it first hand, trust me on this.

The easiest way to spot DLSS v. FSR is foliage and fire renditions. FSR will always be worse off. XeSS is still new. Cyberpunk is like the only implementation of XeSS 1.1 that I know of, but more are coming, and the criticisms leveled at FSR are consistent through a large variety of games. Good enough as it may be for some people, when options are available it's the last thing I'm looking at.

The way AMD does business right now, it's pretty clear AMD would likely be just as anti-consumer if they were in Nvidia's position. Given the state of the GPU market and how AMD and Nvidia keep prices high, it's not even guaranteed that a more competitive AMD would bring prices down or bring larger jumps in performance. It's a sad remark on the state of the GPU market, which is essentially a duopoly.

In regards to XeSS, here is an article on it's Death Stranding implementation: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/...tor-s-cut-xess-vs-dlss-vs-fsr-2-0-comparison/

I should note, TechPowerUp did not use an Intel card and thus did not get XMX acceleration. I looked around to see if I could find one but only found TechSpot's article also testing the non-XMX as well.

From the above article:

"Speaking of XeSS, compared to DLSS and FSR 2.0, the XeSS render quality in terms of overall image detail is comparable to what DLSS and FSR 2.0 can output, but with some differences in temporal stability. One of the most noticeable differences in image quality between XeSS, DLSS and FSR 2.0 is how XeSS deals with ghosting. XeSS has noticeable ghosting issues and black trails on the flying chyral crystal particles and flying cryptobiotes similar to what DLSS 2.1 had in the past. On the DLSS side, this issue was fixed with the updates to the DLSS render pipeline, and no doubt, it can be fixed in Xess too. What's also important to note is that we are testing XeSS with an RTX GPU using the "standard" kernel instead of the Intel Arc GPU kernel, which uses the XMX engines and an advanced XeSS upscaling model, which may affect our image quality results.

Interestingly, when using XeSS, there are some major differences in performance gains, compared to DLSS or FSR 2.0, which essentially had equal or very similar performance gains in most games. As we are testing XeSS with an RTX 3060 GPU, which does not have the XMX instruction set, designed to accelerate XeSS workloads on Intel's Arc GPUs, the performance gains are less than what we can expect on Arc GPUs, so keep that in mind. That said, the actual performance increase difference between XeSS and DLSS or FSR 2.0 is about 13% at 4K Quality mode, in favor of DLSS or FSR 2.0. However, compared to native 4K resolution, XeSS manages to deliver up to 25% more performance while using the DP4a instruction set that's compatible with all GPU architectures, which is still a quite decent performance uplift. "

There's also a shadow of the tomb raider article on it as well, again non-XMX: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/shadow-of-the-tomb-raider-xess-vs-dlss/

As you pointed out, these are not the latest versions of XeSS and in general there just isn't enough of a sample size to tell whether these are representative of the whole.

 

[Blitzkuchen]

I have no reason to buy anything from AMD or Nvidia while both push the prices for margin gain, Intel Arc performs well for the pricepoint.

Another break ARC 380 with 6GB cost 140€ vs. RX 6400 4 Lanes 4GB 136€ vs. GTX 1650 4GB 164€,
ARC 380 have against its competitors: 2GB higher Memory, AV1 support, Qicksync and Raytracing Units (yeah useless in this priceclass but it have it)

 

[Macro Device]

ARC 380 with 6GB cost 140€

A750 is 70 quid more, amirite? A380 makes no sense there because its bigger brother is many times faster.

 

[Kapone33]

On my 3050M's case, it's not even that the hardware's performance is too inadequate, targeting 1080p with DLSS and medium settings, you're going to have a decent time... or would; if the 4 GB VRAM didn't get in the way. Nvidia is devious like that, even their low-end hardware is designed to be like a gateway drug to get people to buy their higher-end stuff.

Interesting I have a 3060 based laptop and 1080P is no problem.

Honestly you may feel that way due to owning both, if you went all-in on AMD I guarantee you would eventually be bummed by the obvious problems... as soon as you ran into something that doesn't work and 4 years down the road, there's no fix... and yes, I run everything native regardless, I'd sooner drop settings. It's a road I've been down before. It snowballs from there.

What i'm getting at is that "good enough" isn't good enough, they need to strive to be the best.

What obvious problems? Please specify. Most "problems" with AMD are resolved with Driver updates. I bet you there are at least 2 Nvidia bugs that have been effecting their cards for years.

You seem to think that unless you have a high end system you won't enjoy the experience? That notion makes the assumption that anyone who is not on 7000/4080/4090 cards can enjoy Gaming. more than people that own 6000/3000 or even ARC cards. You seem to be forgetting that everything is relative.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Interesting I have a 3060 based laptop and 1080P is no problem.


What obvious problems? Please specify. Most "problems" with AMD are resolved with Driver updates. I bet you there are at least 2 Nvidia bugs that have been effecting their cards for years.

You seem to think that unless you have a high end system you won't enjoy the experience? That notion makes the assumption that anyone who is not on 7000/4080/4090 cards can enjoy Gaming. more than people that own 6000/3000 or even ARC cards. You seem to be forgetting that everything is relative.

The mobile 3060 isn't strapped on 4 GB and runs off a faster GA106 processor. Of course 1080p is no problem, my laptop can handle most games fine as well.

As for AMD, you know very well what I'm speaking of. There's issues that have been known for years on end, just from the top of my head, persistent corruption issues with video playback, ReLive crapping itself and recording nonsense (had this thing of it not recording any audio and/or super low quality even at high bit rates as far back with my Vega FE and this never changed - at least not where APUs are concerned, it's random too, sometimes hard to replicate), WattMan resetting all the time, high idle power while using multi-monitor setups, garbage VR performance, etc. - extremely unstable experience, one step forward and two backwards, it seems they can't fix anything without breaking 2 or 3 other things, recently ran into one issue with the Radeon audio driver on my 5600H was causing endless BSODs - always amdacpafd.sys repeatedly, issues which occur even on public driver builds... I literally gave up. It's a laughing stock and not of the funny kind - and if that wasn't enough, you need to take the backseat to all of the cool new tech because it's all developed for or by Nvidia.

Can't blame me if I'm not entirely enthusiastic about it. With AMD, sometimes you have to change graphics drivers like you change a t-shirt - because release A will work for these games well, but release B will not, and then release C fixes it again but release D performs better with that other game, however it doesn't work with the games that release A supports well so now you try release E, the games that worked on A B and C work well but the games that worked on D no longer do; it's always been this way and I honestly think people have gotten used to it and don't seem to mind it anymore.

 

[Kapone33]

The mobile 3060 isn't strapped on 4 GB and runs off a faster GA106 processor. Of course 1080p is no problem, my laptop can handle most games fine as well.

As for AMD, you know very well what I'm speaking of. There's issues that have been known for years on end, just from the top of my head, persistent corruption issues with video playback, ReLive crapping itself and recording nonsense (had this thing of it not recording any audio and/or super low quality even at high bit rates as far back with my Vega FE and this never changed - at least not where APUs are concerned, it's random too, sometimes hard to replicate), WattMan resetting all the time, high idle power while using multi-monitor setups, garbage VR performance, etc. - extremely unstable experience, one step forward and two backwards, it seems they can't fix anything without breaking 2 or 3 other things, recently ran into one issue with the Radeon audio driver on my 5600H was causing endless BSODs - always amdacpafd.sys repeatedly, issues which occur even on public driver builds... I literally gave up. It's a laughing stock and not of the funny kind - and if that wasn't enough, you need to take the backseat to all of the cool new tech because it's all developed for or by Nvidia.

Can't blame me if I'm not entirely enthusiastic about it. With AMD, sometimes you have to change graphics drivers like you change a t-shirt - because release A will work for these games well, but release B will not, and then release C fixes it again but release D performs better with that other game, however it doesn't work with the games that release A supports well so now you try release E, the games that worked on A B and C work well but the games that worked on D no longer do; it's always been this way and I honestly think people have gotten used to it and don't seem to mind it anymore.

Yep that's right and it was released a year before too. The kicker though was in some cases 3050 laptops were more expensive than 3060 laptops.

My very first CPU I bought for myself was the 965Be. I enjoyed that so much that I had to get the 2 more cores that the 1090T gave and enjoyed the hell out of that chip too. I got an 8320 and enjoyed the 4.7 GHZ OC on that chip. Then I got a 1700X and was blown away. Then I jumped up to a 1920X and totally loved Threadripper. Then I got a 2920X and combined with my Crossfire Vega setup enjoyed 200+ FPS on my 60HZ monitor was nothing. Then I got a 3600 but that was replaced by the 5900X> Then that became a 5950X but now I just like Gaming so I got a 5800X3D. I missed the snappiness of many cores so I now am the proud owner of a 7900X3D. Through all of those years I have heard and read about how bad AMD is by people who don't even use it and like to compare AMD 2023 to AMD circa 2015. Your last sentence is evidence of what I am talking about. I have never enjoyed my PC as much as I do and both my CPU and GPU have a lot to do with it.

 

[AusWolf]

The mobile 3060 isn't strapped on 4 GB and runs off a faster GA106 processor. Of course 1080p is no problem, my laptop can handle most games fine as well.

As for AMD, you know very well what I'm speaking of. There's issues that have been known for years on end, just from the top of my head, persistent corruption issues with video playback, ReLive crapping itself and recording nonsense (had this thing of it not recording any audio and/or super low quality even at high bit rates as far back with my Vega FE and this never changed - at least not where APUs are concerned, it's random too, sometimes hard to replicate), WattMan resetting all the time, high idle power while using multi-monitor setups, garbage VR performance, etc. - extremely unstable experience, one step forward and two backwards, it seems they can't fix anything without breaking 2 or 3 other things, recently ran into one issue with the Radeon audio driver on my 5600H was causing endless BSODs - always amdacpafd.sys repeatedly, issues which occur even on public driver builds... I literally gave up. It's a laughing stock and not of the funny kind - and if that wasn't enough, you need to take the backseat to all of the cool new tech because it's all developed for or by Nvidia.

Can't blame me if I'm not entirely enthusiastic about it. With AMD, sometimes you have to change graphics drivers like you change a t-shirt - because release A will work for these games well, but release B will not, and then release C fixes it again but release D performs better with that other game, however it doesn't work with the games that release A supports well so now you try release E, the games that worked on A B and C work well but the games that worked on D no longer do; it's always been this way and I honestly think people have gotten used to it and don't seem to mind it anymore.

I haven't gotten used to it because I've never had these problems in the first place. I don't change drivers too often, either, as all the latest ones just work normally. I'm not recommending RDNA 2 cards because they're tolerable. I'm recommending them because they're good. My experience with them is on par with Nvidia. Seriously.