AMD Announced as Starfield's Exclusive Partner on PC

[Deleted member 177333]

Haha. Its a great reality check for those counting on that free Nvidia TLC.

Welcome to the Nvidia clusterfuck because youre also lacking the VRAM to run native at some point.

As predicted. Fools & Money will be parted

I dont 'count' on FSR either. We all need to judge raw raster performance and nothing else. This confirms it.

Ya while I have only played a title or two with DLSS, it's a nice technology along with FSR. But what I'll take away from things like this is that when I peruse the forums for games like Jedi Survivor and people are talking about how bad the game is running in stock form, but runs so much better with DLSS (there's a mod out there apparently) is that now it's another variable that one has to account for depending on their setup.

As you noted, people who 100% count on it may find a game unplayable if it lacks those "boosts" that they are expecting. Be mindful of refund windows and the like and do research on games before buying them.

 

[Dr. Dro]

The issue was AMD was wishy washy about Zen 3 support for 300/400 series boards until the community complained enough and they eventually capitulated. AMD threw up excuses like "the BIOS is too large" and dragged their feet for months.

Don't forget TRX40 either. They actually finished Zen 3 "Chagall" Threadrippers and didn't ship them to maximize profit on each processor sold.

People actually bought into a super expensive second generation HEDT platform and never got an upgrade. AMD won't hesitate to pull stunts, especially if they're in a position of market leadership as they were when Zen 3 was beating the pants out of Rocket Lake.

This undying support of AMD as some sort of eternal underdog rather than multi billion dollar corporation is a major enabler for this behavior.

 

[dir_d]

After what AMD did to us X370 owners... i'll lump em on the anti-competitive, anti-consumer and highly opportunistic baskets at the same time. But anyway, I digress.

I was sent this on Discord, and I presume it's what the whole fuss is about:

View attachment 303021

Does that really matter though because i know when i am immersed in a game FSR and DLSS are 100% the same. FSR is also supported on more Nvidia GPUs than DLSS, so whats the real problem?

 

[Dr. Dro]

Does that really matter though because i know when i am immersed in a game FSR and DLSS are 100% the same. FSR is also supported on more Nvidia GPUs than DLSS, so whats the real problem?

I don't think that's the merit that warrants discussion, but rather blocking the competitor's technology through contractual obligations.

People have been (rightfully) angered at Nvidia for years for this underhanded trick, and it seems that AMD is also doing it for a change. The only party who loses is, as always, us, the customers.

 

[chrcoluk]

I don't think that's the merit that warrants discussion, but rather blocking the competitor's technology through contractual obligations.

People have been (rightfully) angered at Nvidia for years for this underhanded trick, and it seems that AMD is also doing it for a change. The only party who loses is, as always, us, the customers.

Toned down or lack of RT I dont think is a loss for the customer though as really it mainly serves to gimp game performance, and what tech has AMD released that is propriety to them?

I expect they will encourage the use of high resolution textures knowing VRAM is a Nvidia weakness, discourage or block use of DLSS/RT and thats it really.

 

[Dr. Dro]

HUB now believes something fishy is up

 

[wolf]

HUB now believes something fishy is up

Something fishy is definitely up. If AMD could have given an Nvidia like answer of We don't / haven't / won't block competing solutions, it's very reasonable to assume they'd have given it by now - they're scrambling to try and come up with a way to address it that maximises damage control for this PR disaster.

Because it can materially enhance the experience. I don’t actually care what card I use or what settings are enabled — I care about the actual gaming experience and visual quality.

It baffles me that people arbitrarily choose XYZ technique as an unacceptable way to get the magic pixels to their screen. My dudes, the proof is in the pudding, if it gives a Native like presentation with higher FPS (often better because of top tier AA), why die on the hill of how we got there.

 

[ratirt]

Maybe AMD and Starfield crew decided they will feature only open software not proprietary so that everyone can enjoy it which means DLSS is out. Or maybe, DLSS 2 will be implemented later. Just because it is not out with the app on day one doesn't mean it wont be there. People who tie this to some sort of AMD wrongdoing NVIDIA are just silly.

 

[mama]

I don't get it. Assumedly game developers agreed to any arrangement. They did so because they concluded it was to their benefit. Are people saying that game developers should be compelled to include all upscaling technologies? Why?

 

[wolf]

Why?

Perhaps they didn't anticipate this level of backlash on the terms (should it actually be in the terms), perhaps AMD sold them with their marketing lines like "it's open source, and that's a benefit to you", perhaps they did the calculus that the AMD money or engineer time would outweigh the perceived benefit of omitting other upscalers, perhaps it's a time limited deal and things can change after 6-12-18 etc months, perhaps there are countless variations and negotiations on these agreements where they are willing to provide substantially more value in advertising that the perceived benefit of adding other upscalers to the devs, hell perhaps they're like, well mods exist, so people who want DLSS will get it shortly after release anyway, and a myriad of other possible potential reasons, what I keep coming back to is;

If AMD could have given an Nvidia like answer of We don't / haven't / won't block competing solutions, it's very reasonable to assume they'd have given it by now

Given the level of backlash and AMD's yet to actually answer response, some might well be considering whether AMD sponsorships really are to their benefit going forward. I eagerly await what AMD has to say on the topic that actually addresses the directly asked questions, which are;

"When a partnership agreement is signed, does AMD block or restrict game developers from integrating technology from their competitors, such as Nvidia with DLSS?"

and

"Does AMD want to clarify the statement they made in [the WCCFTech article], especially after seeing Nvidia's definitive statement?"

Right now I can think of two distinct possibilities. AMD is blocking/restricting, and are scrambling for a way to spin/undo/ it or mitigate PR damages, or their circa $186 billion net worth company has a marketing department that is truly, utterly and completely incompetent and worthless. Now that I've committed it to text, it could even be both.

 

[ratirt]

Given the level of backlash and AMD's yet to actually answer response, some might well be considering whether AMD sponsorships really are to their benefit going forward. I eagerly await what AMD has to say on the topic that actually addresses the directly asked questions, which are;

How can you say AMD is blocking any other upscaling techs? The company that created the application is the deciding entity here and if they decided to go with AMD the decision is their own. As far as I know, there is no evidence AMD is blocking anything. Other upscalers can still be implemented but as a sponsor of the game, it would have been a shame on the company not to have it at a launch date of the game. It is a marketing choice for the game developer. My perspective on this is. DLSS is for certain gamers and FSR for instance is for everyone. If you want to release something you will consider going with a sponsor that supports everyone no exclusions since that will drive the income and profit.
So it is quite unusual, to demand some answers from AMD about not including other upscalers in a game which they have not produced. It's like confronting AMD about not including cuda cores in their arch or not supporting DLSS with the cards they produce. It is kinda nonsense.

 

[HOkay]

It baffles me that people arbitrarily choose XYZ technique as an unacceptable way to get the magic pixels to their screen. My dudes, the proof is in the pudding, if it gives a Native like presentation with higher FPS (often better because of top tier AA), why die on the hill of how we got there.

Whilst upscalers can look very good, they can often still have artifacts when you see them in action. The classic ones being ghosting, staircasing or aliasing, or a generally slightly blurry look to textures because of the lower render resolution. The visual fidelity is not only different between the different techniques (DLSS &FSR), it's also different across every game. You really do need to judge every technique in every game on its own merit. That makes it a nightmare for reviewers because it's completely subjective as to whether it's good enough to turn X technique on in Y game.

In my opinion all reviewers can do is show results for both, ideally with some video of them in action so that individuals can decide which settings they'd use, & therefore how they'd compare cards in each game. Of course then deciding between an Nvidia GPU & AMD GPU becomes even more complicated & to some extent is dependent on the games you play. It'd be easier if all games supported all techniques, though imo that does give Nvidia an advantage because DLSS is almost always (possibly even always?) better than FSR. I'd like to hear examples where people think FSR looks better for me to have a look at.

 

[wolf]

@HOkay I agree wholeheartedly, and the artefacts you mention, are more often that not present with the standard TAA too, where I find DLSS, XeSS and FSR all have a sort of visual signature to them that carries game to game (for example I tend to think the AA DLSS/DLAA uses resolves fantastic detail, and has the best temporal stability with less shimmer and flicker) - with some fluctuations of course. In terms of raw FPS reviews, I prefer to see the results with no upscaling, as I know I can add them where I choose (provided they make it in games) to tweak my experience.

What you quoted is more in reference to the people who, literally despite any conversation or discussion around how the output even looks, just decry upscaling for whatever reason of their choosing (lowering individual settings is better, we've been able to lower render res for years, it's fake resolution - take your pick), where I tend to spend some decent time at the beginning of a game (and perhaps parts throughout that carry different visual flares like different planets in Jedi survivor for eg) tweaking the individual settings as well as the TAA/res/upscaling choices to see what suits me the best, which of course is a balance of performance and image quality, and more often than not if DLSS is present, it's where I end up - targeting 4k output at a refresh rate or VRR window that is well suited to the gameplay.

Edit: @ratirt I can see you've quoted me, but I have you on ignore and am not interested in discussing this topic with you, if you want to know how I feel about the subject and my 'stance', watch the HUB video, it outlays it perfectly and I agree with their assessment, and again, not interested in discussing it with you personally.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Maybe AMD and Starfield crew decided they will feature only open software not proprietary so that everyone can enjoy it which means DLSS is out. Or maybe, DLSS 2 will be implemented later. Just because it is not out with the app on day one doesn't mean it wont be there. People who tie this to some sort of AMD wrongdoing NVIDIA are just silly.

That makes no sense. They're not mutually exclusive, and everything we've got to know so far implies AMD either forbids or strongly discourages use of competing technologies, down to their refusal to help support the Streamline project.

Game developers have no love for open source, there's growing evidence of this pattern and AMD is clearly feeling pressured, nervous. Someone who has no wrongdoing here wouldn't behave like they are.

FSR is notably inferior to DLSS and XeSS thus far. While true everyone can use it, people with GPUs capable of better quality upscaling technologies will want to use them over FSR. Hell you want to use XeSS over FSR even on Radeon today. It'd be largely non issue if FSR competed in quality, but it doesn't.

 

[ratirt]

That makes no sense. They're not mutually exclusive, and everything we've got to know so far implies AMD either forbids or strongly discourages use of competing technologies, down to their refusal to help support the Streamline project.

How do you know this is the case? I think you cling to what NVidia has been doing and it has been proven and now you want to attach the same behavior to AMD as seeking revenge of some sort. Sponsorship does not mean forbidding to do things with your own product. What it does, in my opinion, is to make things work top notch from a get go. In terms of FSR and DLSS for that matter, each game has different implementation for either of the upscalers. You can say that DLSS has a better implementation in one game than other. Same goes for FSR. CP2077 has had a very good implementation of DLSS from a get go. It was sponsored by NVidia. Later, the company has patched and got FSR done. That's what sponsorship is all about.

Game developers have no love for open source, there's growing evidence of this pattern and AMD is clearly feeling pressured, nervous. Someone who has no wrongdoing here wouldn't behave like they are.

That is your opinion from a NV perspective and to accommodate your dislikes, you move to that type of conclusion. My conclusion is, open source matters since the audience for the game would be way bigger accommodating way more users with variety of cards than just certain group of people. If you want to go global with the product, you need to keep that in mind. It is business and nobody wants to cut on clients.

FSR is notably inferior to DLSS and XeSS thus far. While true everyone can use it, people with GPUs capable of better quality upscaling technologies will want to use them over FSR. Hell you want to use XeSS over FSR even on Radeon today. It'd be largely non issue if FSR competed in quality, but it doesn't.

It is inferior but not by far and if you implement any upscaler properly the differences are there but these are not that obvious. (that depends on the implementation obviously). Your conclusion here is to use better but the problem is, better is just for use to some people. Especially if you consider DLSS3 then a handful users in a world scale. So there you have handful of people that would benefit from the better upscaler which is DLSS and slightly inferior FSR which allows everyone to use it, including every console user despite the console type. If you put that on a scale FSR wins since it tailors to everyone out there. I'd focus on that one first and then, if the game's received very good, add on top of that knowing, the game is a hit, you are secured financially and you can expand with game's graphics features and upscalers and expand the gameplay further.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Can we end this blatant clubism? This is why I can't stand hardcore AMD fans anymore, and I was one of them! Stop defending this company at every turn. They are no underdogs, they are a company worth almost $200 billion! Revenge? What for!? I'm not an NVIDIA or AMD shareholder. Why do I care? Having an NVIDIA GPU on my PC doesn't make me loyal to this company, if anything, it makes me more demanding of them because I'm affected by the decisions they take.

 

[HOkay]

@HOkay I agree wholeheartedly, and the artefacts you mention, are more often that not present with the standard TAA too, where I find DLSS, XeSS and FSR all have a sort of visual signature to them that carries game to game (for example I tend to think the AA DLSS/DLAA uses resolves fantastic detail, and has the best temporal stability with less shimmer and flicker) - with some fluctuations of course.

Yes what's with the crap built-in TAA that you can't disable these days? Fine having it as an option, fine even having it as default, but please let me turn it off if I want to!
My favourite of the lot so far is definitely DLAA, I'm one of the lucky few who generally doesn't need higher frame rates so just having DLAA to tidy up the aliasing is great, it's a real shame it's so rarely an option in a game.

 

[basco]

and i just game on x99 platform with a 6900xt and lough at all the up+downscaling marketing shit.
and my oldsmobile 1080ti can game too- no fucking shit sherlock

 

[ratirt]

Can we end this blatant clubism? This is why I can't stand hardcore AMD fans anymore, and I was one of them! Stop defending this company at every turn. They are no underdogs, they are a company worth almost $200 billion! Revenge? What for!? I'm not an NVIDIA or AMD shareholder. Why do I care? Having an NVIDIA GPU on my PC doesn't make me loyal to this company, if anything, it makes me more demanding of them because I'm affected by the decisions they take.

I'm not biased towards AMD and I'm definitely not a fanboy cause that's plain stupid but at least I give some sort of arguments about the way I think these things are being conducted between the companies. Their business approach to things instead of constant toxicity in every post or dispute people may have towards company and their allocation of features or other products. What does an underdog have to do with this situation and what has been said? What if DLSS will be implemented in the game? Will you take your accusations back? That AMD is blocking NV from DLSS implementation in a game? Cause that is what you are angry about aren't you? I see nothing wrong so far with what Bethesda and AMD are doing with the game at this point. Not to mention it's not even out and NV people, are already disappointed because of some unproven or unknown reason.
That is literally pathetic.

 

[Dr. Dro]

I'm not biased towards AMD and I'm definitely not a fanboy cause that's plain stupid but at least I give some sort of arguments about the way I think these things are being conducted between the companies. Their business approach to things instead of constant toxicity in every post or dispute people may have towards company and their allocation of features or other products. What does an underdog have to do with this situation and what has been said? What if DLSS will be implemented in the game? Will you take your accusations back? That AMD is blocking NV from DLSS implementation in a game? Cause that is what you are angry about aren't you? I see nothing wrong so far with what Bethesda and AMD are doing with the game at this point. Not to mention it's not even out and NV people, are already disappointed because of some unproven or unknown reason.
That is literally pathetic.

I won't take my accusations back - until AMD clarifies if they are or are not. We've got deflection, refusal and non-answers thus far. They are actually avoiding the press and hoping the problem goes away.

 

[ratirt]

I won't take my accusations back - until AMD clarifies if they are or are not. We've got deflection, refusal and non-answers thus far. They are actually avoiding the press and hoping the problem goes away.

Why do you cling to AMD about a game that is not theirs. I thought I have explained something to you about sponsorship but I guess you have omitted that in your understanding? You have given nothing with arguments supporting your statements. You will have to take it back and I will call you an NV shill then when DLSS shows up with the game at some point.
Too bad. AMD has nothing to explain. My advice is, ask Bethesda why they went with FSR on a launch day.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Why do you cling to AMD about a game that is not theirs. I thought I have explained something to you about sponsorship but I guess you have omitted that in your understanding? You have given nothing with arguments supporting your statements. You will have to take it back and I will call you an NV shill then when DLSS shows up with the game at some point.
Too bad. AMD has nothing to explain. My advice is, ask Bethesda why they went with FSR on a launch day.

Right, all the videos from reputable press sources such as GN and Hardware Unboxed, a verifiable list of games that are AMD sponsored that lack DLSS, etc. plus pointing out their own behavior are clearly not supporting the argument that AMD may very well in the wrong here, and I/the press/the filthy evil meanies who have Nvidia GPUs are just bullying poor wittle AMD

Looks like neither party will budge an inch from their stance so the conversation will no longer bear fruit. Let's wait to see what AMD has to say for themselves, eventually.

 

[ratirt]

Right, all the videos from reputable press sources such as GN and Hardware Unboxed, a verifiable list of games that are AMD sponsored that lack DLSS, etc. plus pointing out their own behavior are clearly not supporting the argument that AMD may very well in the wrong here, and I/the press/the filthy evil meanies who have Nvidia GPUs are just bullying poor wittle AMD

Looks like neither party will budge an inch from their stance so the conversation will no longer bear fruit. Let's wait to see what AMD has to say for themselves, eventually.

Which part you don't understand? It is not AMD deciding to put FSR in a game but the game developer. The game developer holds all the cards and plays with them. Maybe you should ask NV why they dont want to work with them?
It is a business and as long as there is no evidence (from your side there is none) that AMD somehow forced or paid for not getting NV onboard with DLSS (which is ridiculous if you ask me) then all your arguments have no merit. There is nothing to budge about. You just want feud for some reason.
Let me ask you this. Has NVidia released a statement or make a tweet or report that the company has been banned from Bethesda's game complaining about AMD blocking something?

 

[Dr. Dro]

Which part you don't understand? It is not AMD deciding to put FSR in a game but the game developer. The game developer holds all the cards and plays with them. Maybe you should ask NV why they dont want to work with them?
It is a business and as long as there is no evidence (from your side there is none) that AMD somehow forced or paid for not getting NV onboard with DLSS (which is ridiculous if you ask me) then all your arguments have no merit. There is nothing to budge about. You just want feud for some reason.
Let me ask you this. Has NVidia released a statement or make a tweet or report that the company has been banned from Bethesda's game complaining about AMD blocking something?

The Hardware Unboxed video has covered this, and as for concrete evidence, there are non-disclosure agreements involved with the sponsorships. The press itself is being withheld the information you want me to give you, so how am I supposed to do that?

 

[ratirt]

The Hardware Unboxed video has covered this, and as for concrete evidence, there are non-disclosure agreements involved with the sponsorships. The press itself is being withheld the information you want me to give you, so how am I supposed to do that?

Then lets wait for the information and stop accusation and toxicity in the threads by unprecedented facts as of now. We will have statements of why and how from both AMD and Bethesda and I'm sure, NVidia will take a stand as well. Just because someone wants AMD to block NVidia with their DLSS, it does not mean it is true.