• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Intel Arrow Lake-S to Feature 3 MB of L2 Cache per Performance Core

AleksandarK

News Editor
Staff member
Joined
Aug 19, 2017
Messages
2,651 (0.99/day)
Intel's next-generation designs are nearing launch, and we are already getting information about the upcoming generations. Today, we have the information that Intel's Arrow Lake-S desktop/client implementations of the Arrow Lake family will feature as much as 3 MB of level two (L2) cache for each performance core. Currently, Intel's latest 13th-generation Raptor Lake and 14th-generation Raptor Lake Refresh feature 2 MB of L2 cache per performance core. However, the 15th generation Arrow Lake, scheduled for launch in 2024, will bump that up by 50% and reach 3 MB. Given that P-cores are getting a boost in capacity, we expect E-cores to do so as well, but at a smaller size.

Arrow Lake will utilize Lion Cove P-core microarchitecture, while the E-core design will be based on Skymont. Intel plans to use a 20A node for this CPU, and more details will be presented next year.



View at TechPowerUp Main Site | Source
 
Joined
Jan 5, 2006
Messages
18,584 (2.68/day)
System Name AlderLake
Processor Intel i7 12700K P-Cores @ 5Ghz
Motherboard Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Master
Cooling Noctua NH-U12A 2 fans + Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut Extreme + 5 case fans
Memory 32GB DDR5 Corsair Dominator Platinum RGB 6000MT/s CL36
Video Card(s) MSI RTX 2070 Super Gaming X Trio
Storage Samsung 980 Pro 1TB + 970 Evo 500GB + 850 Pro 512GB + 860 Evo 1TB x2
Display(s) 23.8" Dell S2417DG 165Hz G-Sync 1440p
Case Be quiet! Silent Base 600 - Window
Audio Device(s) Panasonic SA-PMX94 / Realtek onboard + B&O speaker system / Harman Kardon Go + Play / Logitech G533
Power Supply Seasonic Focus Plus Gold 750W
Mouse Logitech MX Anywhere 2 Laser wireless
Keyboard RAPOO E9270P Black 5GHz wireless
Software Windows 11
Benchmark Scores Cinebench R23 (Single Core) 1936 @ stock Cinebench R23 (Multi Core) 23006 @ stock
Arrow Lake will possibly come without HT , yet +40% increased multithreading performance I was reading somewhere.
 

Space Lynx

Astronaut
Joined
Oct 17, 2014
Messages
17,425 (4.69/day)
Location
Kepler-186f
Processor 7800X3D -25 all core
Motherboard B650 Steel Legend
Cooling Frost Commander 140
Video Card(s) Merc 310 7900 XT @3100 core -.75v
Display(s) Agon 27" QD-OLED Glossy 240hz 1440p
Case NZXT H710 (Red/Black)
Audio Device(s) Asgard 2, Modi 3, HD58X
Power Supply Corsair RM850x Gold
Not x3d level of cache, but they are definitely pulling from that playbook some and melding it with their traditional playbook of higher clocks and ipc.


8 arrow lake p cores with E cores turned off... That might be my next cpu. All depends on benchmarks VS 8800x3d though. Will be an interesting match up next year.
 
Joined
Nov 6, 2016
Messages
1,773 (0.60/day)
Location
NH, USA
System Name Lightbringer
Processor Ryzen 7 2700X
Motherboard Asus ROG Strix X470-F Gaming
Cooling Enermax Liqmax Iii 360mm AIO
Memory G.Skill Trident Z RGB 32GB (8GBx4) 3200Mhz CL 14
Video Card(s) Sapphire RX 5700XT Nitro+
Storage Hp EX950 2TB NVMe M.2, HP EX950 1TB NVMe M.2, Samsung 860 EVO 2TB
Display(s) LG 34BK95U-W 34" 5120 x 2160
Case Lian Li PC-O11 Dynamic (White)
Power Supply BeQuiet Straight Power 11 850w Gold Rated PSU
Mouse Glorious Model O (Matte White)
Keyboard Royal Kludge RK71
Software Windows 10
Definitely a sign that AMD is steering the x86 ship...first chiplets.....now cache....once is a coincidence, but two makes it true, haha

Arrow Lake will possibly come without HT , yet +40% increased multithreading performance I was reading somewhere.
40% with rhe same core count? Or 40% more performance with 30% more cores?
 
Joined
Jan 5, 2006
Messages
18,584 (2.68/day)
System Name AlderLake
Processor Intel i7 12700K P-Cores @ 5Ghz
Motherboard Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Master
Cooling Noctua NH-U12A 2 fans + Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut Extreme + 5 case fans
Memory 32GB DDR5 Corsair Dominator Platinum RGB 6000MT/s CL36
Video Card(s) MSI RTX 2070 Super Gaming X Trio
Storage Samsung 980 Pro 1TB + 970 Evo 500GB + 850 Pro 512GB + 860 Evo 1TB x2
Display(s) 23.8" Dell S2417DG 165Hz G-Sync 1440p
Case Be quiet! Silent Base 600 - Window
Audio Device(s) Panasonic SA-PMX94 / Realtek onboard + B&O speaker system / Harman Kardon Go + Play / Logitech G533
Power Supply Seasonic Focus Plus Gold 750W
Mouse Logitech MX Anywhere 2 Laser wireless
Keyboard RAPOO E9270P Black 5GHz wireless
Software Windows 11
Benchmark Scores Cinebench R23 (Single Core) 1936 @ stock Cinebench R23 (Multi Core) 23006 @ stock
40% with rhe same core count? Or 40% more performance with 30% more cores?

It is assumed that Arrow Lake will be up to 40% faster in multithreading performance, based on comparisons between mid-range processors (6 8) of this generation, as leaked by MLID. Furthermore, Intel could make impressive progress with Beast Lake (possibly a working title) in 2026. Beast Lake is expected to boost performance to 10 cores, as opposed to the current 8 performance cores Intel has achieved since moving to hybrid technology with Alder Lake due to power consumption issues.


8 arrow lake p cores with E cores turned off... That might be my next cpu.

You shouldn't be buying intel CPU's...
 

Space Lynx

Astronaut
Joined
Oct 17, 2014
Messages
17,425 (4.69/day)
Location
Kepler-186f
Processor 7800X3D -25 all core
Motherboard B650 Steel Legend
Cooling Frost Commander 140
Video Card(s) Merc 310 7900 XT @3100 core -.75v
Display(s) Agon 27" QD-OLED Glossy 240hz 1440p
Case NZXT H710 (Red/Black)
Audio Device(s) Asgard 2, Modi 3, HD58X
Power Supply Corsair RM850x Gold
It is assumed that Arrow Lake will be up to 40% faster in multithreading performance, based on comparisons between mid-range processors (6 8) of this generation, as leaked by MLID. Furthermore, Intel could make impressive progress with Beast Lake (possibly a working title) in 2026. Beast Lake is expected to boost performance to 10 cores, as opposed to the current 8 performance cores Intel has achieved since moving to hybrid technology with Alder Lake due to power consumption issues.




You shouldn't be buying intel CPU's...

i like my chips running cold, no need for ecores.
 
Joined
Aug 13, 2010
Messages
5,479 (1.04/day)
Not x3d level of cache, but they are definitely pulling from that playbook some and melding it with their traditional playbook of higher clocks and ipc.


8 arrow lake p cores with E cores turned off... That might be my next cpu. All depends on benchmarks VS 8800x3d though. Will be an interesting match up next year.
Don't confuse L2 and L3 caches, they are vastly different
 
Joined
Oct 28, 2012
Messages
1,194 (0.27/day)
Processor AMD Ryzen 3700x
Motherboard asus ROG Strix B-350I Gaming
Cooling Deepcool LS520 SE
Memory crucial ballistix 32Gb DDR4
Video Card(s) RTX 3070 FE
Storage WD sn550 1To/WD ssd sata 1To /WD black sn750 1To/Seagate 2To/WD book 4 To back-up
Display(s) LG GL850
Case Dan A4 H2O
Audio Device(s) sennheiser HD58X
Power Supply Corsair SF600
Mouse MX master 3
Keyboard Master Key Mx
Software win 11 pro
i like my chips running cold, no need for ecores.
Then get a 8 cores X3D chip. You can cool that with a low profile cooler and still get max perf in gaming. I don't know who started that rumors that the e-cores are generating the bulk of the heat, but it's false. The P-cores at full throttle are just going to be hot. They still need 190w to reach their max clock speed. (I've tried 125 and 150w PL2 and they don't reach the max turbo).

And it's not like a 13700k get hot in games anyway. If you do stuff that's going to stress the CPU that much, chances are you'll be needing the e-cores. Otherwise you might as well just get a Ryzen 9 7900.
Capture d'écran 2023-08-14 075704.png
Capture d'écran 2023-08-14 075005.png
 

Attachments

  • 1692013180907.png
    1692013180907.png
    67.4 KB · Views: 40

Space Lynx

Astronaut
Joined
Oct 17, 2014
Messages
17,425 (4.69/day)
Location
Kepler-186f
Processor 7800X3D -25 all core
Motherboard B650 Steel Legend
Cooling Frost Commander 140
Video Card(s) Merc 310 7900 XT @3100 core -.75v
Display(s) Agon 27" QD-OLED Glossy 240hz 1440p
Case NZXT H710 (Red/Black)
Audio Device(s) Asgard 2, Modi 3, HD58X
Power Supply Corsair RM850x Gold
Then get a 8 cores X3D chip. You can cool that with a low profile cooler and still get max perf in gaming. I don't know who started that rumors that the e-cores are generating the bulk of the heat, but it's false. The P-cores at full throttle are just going to be hot. They still need 190w to reach their max clock speed. (I've tried 125 and 150w PL2 and they don't reach the max turbo).

And it's not like a 13700k get hot in games anyway. If you do stuff that's going to stress the CPU that much, chances are you'll be needing the e-cores. Otherwise you might as well just get a Ryzen 9 7900.
View attachment 308948View attachment 308949

I most likely will upgrade to 8800x3d or 9900x3d. Yikes those temps scare me! I don't break 54 Celsius in a lot of games with my 5600x3d. It's so cold I love it
 

bug

Joined
May 22, 2015
Messages
13,843 (3.95/day)
Processor Intel i5-12600k
Motherboard Asus H670 TUF
Cooling Arctic Freezer 34
Memory 2x16GB DDR4 3600 G.Skill Ripjaws V
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1060 SC
Storage 500GB Samsung 970 EVO, 500GB Samsung 850 EVO, 1TB Crucial MX300 and 2TB Crucial MX500
Display(s) Dell U3219Q + HP ZR24w
Case Raijintek Thetis
Audio Device(s) Audioquest Dragonfly Red :D
Power Supply Seasonic 620W M12
Mouse Logitech G502 Proteus Core
Keyboard G.Skill KM780R
Software Arch Linux + Win10
My first PC had 2MB system RAM. And that was above average at the time, most came with only 1MB. I guess things have progressed a little.
 
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
Messages
711 (0.10/day)
The larger the cache, the longer it get to look it up. It's why by example the largest cache is the L3 for both Intel and AMD.


This may lead to increase performance but maybe not up to the point people think it would. We will see. They might have improved a lot the lookup mechanism to reduce the performance hit of a larger cache.

Also since cache do not scale very well with lower nodes, i wonder if it will be worth the die space.
 

bug

Joined
May 22, 2015
Messages
13,843 (3.95/day)
Processor Intel i5-12600k
Motherboard Asus H670 TUF
Cooling Arctic Freezer 34
Memory 2x16GB DDR4 3600 G.Skill Ripjaws V
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1060 SC
Storage 500GB Samsung 970 EVO, 500GB Samsung 850 EVO, 1TB Crucial MX300 and 2TB Crucial MX500
Display(s) Dell U3219Q + HP ZR24w
Case Raijintek Thetis
Audio Device(s) Audioquest Dragonfly Red :D
Power Supply Seasonic 620W M12
Mouse Logitech G502 Proteus Core
Keyboard G.Skill KM780R
Software Arch Linux + Win10
The larger the cache, the longer it get to look it up. It's why by example the largest cache is the L3 for both Intel and AMD.


This may lead to increase performance but maybe not up to the point people think it would. We will see. They might have improved a lot the lookup mechanism to reduce the performance hit of a larger cache.

Also since cache do not scale very well with lower nodes, i wonder if it will be worth the die space.
Cache is always a game of fine balancing. Believe it or not, x86 did not have any cache until its 4th generation, 12 years after 8086.
And yes, larger caches mean more time to look up things, but engineers are well aware of that. A cache is only increased when it can be built so that the added cache hits will mitigate most/all of the latency hit, while also not burning through unsustainable amounts of power. A lot of simulation and real-world data goes into a decision to increase a particular cache or add another level. That's why we don't have 4MB 1st level caches or 16 caching level already.
 
Joined
Feb 1, 2019
Messages
3,666 (1.70/day)
Location
UK, Midlands
System Name Main PC
Processor 13700k
Motherboard Asrock Z690 Steel Legend D4 - Bios 13.02
Cooling Noctua NH-D15S
Memory 32 Gig 3200CL14
Video Card(s) 4080 RTX SUPER FE 16G
Storage 1TB 980 PRO, 2TB SN850X, 2TB DC P4600, 1TB 860 EVO, 2x 3TB WD Red, 2x 4TB WD Red
Display(s) LG 27GL850
Case Fractal Define R4
Audio Device(s) Soundblaster AE-9
Power Supply Antec HCG 750 Gold
Software Windows 10 21H2 LTSC
Looking at the history of cpu design, increasing cache fairly consistently bumps up performance. It may slightly slow down cache lookups, but that is easily overcome by the gains of avoiding a miss.
 

Space Lynx

Astronaut
Joined
Oct 17, 2014
Messages
17,425 (4.69/day)
Location
Kepler-186f
Processor 7800X3D -25 all core
Motherboard B650 Steel Legend
Cooling Frost Commander 140
Video Card(s) Merc 310 7900 XT @3100 core -.75v
Display(s) Agon 27" QD-OLED Glossy 240hz 1440p
Case NZXT H710 (Red/Black)
Audio Device(s) Asgard 2, Modi 3, HD58X
Power Supply Corsair RM850x Gold
It is assumed that Arrow Lake will be up to 40% faster in multithreading performance, based on comparisons between mid-range processors (6 8) of this generation, as leaked by MLID. Furthermore, Intel could make impressive progress with Beast Lake (possibly a working title) in 2026. Beast Lake is expected to boost performance to 10 cores, as opposed to the current 8 performance cores Intel has achieved since moving to hybrid technology with Alder Lake due to power consumption issues.




You shouldn't be buying intel CPU's...


e-cores activating in this new game according to the bottom of the review, ruining the experience... and how many more games out there that simply aren't played have the same issue? e-cores are a terrible concept, and if I buy Arrow Lake, I will be turning them off.
 
Joined
Jan 18, 2012
Messages
460 (0.10/day)
Location
Quodam loco Albanianae
System Name The Dark side of the room
Processor AMD Ryzen 9 5900X
Motherboard MSI MEG X570 Unify
Cooling Custom loop watercooling (Bykski CPU-XPR-POM-M-V2, Alphacool Eisblock GPX, Freezemod PU-PWM5B18W)
Memory GSkill Ripjaws V DDR4 3600 CL16 (4 x 16GB)
Video Card(s) XFX Speedster QICK 319 Radeon RX 6700 XT
Storage 1 x Kingston KC3000 1024GB (boot drive) + 2 x Kingston NV2 2TB (games & storage)
Display(s) LG 34WP65C Ultrawide 3440x1440 @ 160Hz freesync premium
Case Thermaltake Core P90 TG (slightly modded)
Audio Device(s) onboard Realtek® ALC1220 with Logitech Z906
Power Supply MSI MAG A850GF 80 Plus Gold
Mouse Generic
Keyboard Sharkoon Skiller SGK60 (with brown Kalih switches)
Software Windows 11 pro
Benchmark Scores It's a form of exhibitionism...;-), but fun in a way But showing off is triggering.............
Assuming that Intel increases L1 and/or L2 caches and overcome whatever techncal challenges that brings, I always heard that this kind of cache besides being blazing fast, also costs muito dineros.

That won't do much good to the consumer prices.
 

Toothless

Tech, Games, and TPU!
Supporter
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
Messages
9,653 (2.46/day)
Location
Washington, USA
System Name Veral
Processor 7800x3D
Motherboard x670e Asus Crosshair Hero
Cooling Corsair H150i RGB Elite
Memory 2x24 Klevv Cras V RGB
Video Card(s) Powercolor 7900XTX Red Devil
Storage Crucial P5 Plus 1TB, Samsung 980 1TB, Teamgroup MP34 4TB
Display(s) Acer Nitro XZ342CK Pbmiiphx, 2x AOC 2425W, AOC I1601FWUX
Case Fractal Design Meshify Lite 2
Audio Device(s) Blue Yeti + SteelSeries Arctis 5 / Samsung HW-T550
Power Supply Corsair HX850
Mouse Corsair Nightsword
Keyboard Corsair K55
VR HMD HP Reverb G2
Software Windows 11 Professional
Benchmark Scores PEBCAK

e-cores activating in this new game according to the bottom of the review, ruining the experience... and how many more games out there that simply aren't played have the same issue? e-cores are a terrible concept, and if I buy Arrow Lake, I will be turning them off.
It's literally a bug as mentioned in that review, if you read it.

You keep saying "I'm getting this CPU" and changing your mind next post, or put in "I'm disabling e-cores" without ever understanding why they're there.

Like pick a side already jfc.
 
Joined
Aug 14, 2013
Messages
2,373 (0.57/day)
System Name boomer--->zoomer not your typical millenial build
Processor i5-760 @ 3.8ghz + turbo ~goes wayyyyyyyyy fast cuz turboooooz~
Motherboard P55-GD80 ~best motherboard ever designed~
Cooling NH-D15 ~double stack thot twerk all day~
Memory 16GB Crucial Ballistix LP ~memory gone AWOL~
Video Card(s) MSI GTX 970 ~*~GOLDEN EDITION~*~ RAWRRRRRR
Storage 500GB Samsung 850 Evo (OS X, *nix), 128GB Samsung 840 Pro (W10 Pro), 1TB SpinPoint F3 ~best in class
Display(s) ASUS VW246H ~best 24" you've seen *FULL HD* *1O80PP* *SLAPS*~
Case FT02-W ~the W stands for white but it's brushed aluminum except for the disgusting ODD bays; *cries*
Audio Device(s) A LOT
Power Supply 850W EVGA SuperNova G2 ~hot fire like champagne~
Mouse CM Spawn ~cmcz R c00l seth mcfarlane darawss~
Keyboard CM QF Rapid - Browns ~fastrrr kees for fstr teens~
Software integrated into the chassis
Benchmark Scores 9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
That and rumors that ryzen will have e-cores suggests they’re here to stay
 
Joined
Dec 26, 2006
Messages
3,862 (0.59/day)
Location
Northern Ontario Canada
Processor Ryzen 5700x
Motherboard Gigabyte X570S Aero G R1.1 BiosF5g
Cooling Noctua NH-C12P SE14 w/ NF-A15 HS-PWM Fan 1500rpm
Memory Micron DDR4-3200 2x32GB D.S. D.R. (CT2K32G4DFD832A)
Video Card(s) AMD RX 6800 - Asus Tuf
Storage Kingston KC3000 1TB & 2TB & 4TB Corsair MP600 Pro LPX
Display(s) LG 27UL550-W (27" 4k)
Case Be Quiet Pure Base 600 (no window)
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC1220-VB
Power Supply SuperFlower Leadex V Gold Pro 850W ATX Ver2.52
Mouse Mionix Naos Pro
Keyboard Corsair Strafe with browns
Software W10 22H2 Pro x64
More Cache = More Cash
 
Joined
May 3, 2018
Messages
2,881 (1.19/day)
No one's mentioned Arrow Lake will not have SMT. Yes, that's right no hyperthreading. They may bring it back later but apparently the new architecture and chiplets and FPGA substrate etc are making it all too hard to get working properly.

Let's hope Intel deliver on their claims for IPC uplifts in both Meteor and Arrow lake. They'll need to as Zen 5 is looking very good and may be out by April 2024.

Looking forward to Zen 5 vs Arrow lake, but I hope Meteor Lake gives us a good idea of how Intel is moving beyond Raptor lake and if they really have made large gains in efficiency too. If they have Meteor Lake mobile will be strong alternative to Phoenix at least even on iGPU.
 
Joined
Jul 9, 2016
Messages
1,081 (0.35/day)
System Name Main System
Processor i9-10940x
Motherboard MSI X299 Xpower Gaming AC
Cooling Noctua NH-D15S + Second Fan
Memory G.Skill 64GB @3200MHz XMP
Video Card(s) ASUS Strix RTX 3090 24GB
Storage 2TB Samsung 970 EVO Plus; 2TB Corsair Force MP600; 2TB Samsung PM981a
Display(s) Dell U4320Q; LG 43MU79-B
Case Corsair A540
Audio Device(s) Creative Lab SoundBlaster ZX-R
Power Supply EVGA G2 1300
Mouse Logitech MK550
Keyboard Corsair K95 Platinum XT Brown Switches
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores Cinebench R20 - 6910; FireStrike Ultra - 13241; TimeSpy Extreme - 10067; Port Royal - 13855
The larger the cache, the longer it get to look it up. It's why by example the largest cache is the L3 for both Intel and AMD.


This may lead to increase performance but maybe not up to the point people think it would. We will see. They might have improved a lot the lookup mechanism to reduce the performance hit of a larger cache.

Also since cache do not scale very well with lower nodes, i wonder if it will be worth the die space.
Longer compared to what, no cache? If the data is not in the cache, the CPU has to get the data from memory, which is X times slower than from fetching it from cache. The more cache you have, the more frequently accessed data can be stored in the cache, and the faster data fetch and cpu operation can happen.
 
Joined
Jul 16, 2013
Messages
205 (0.05/day)
System Name latest-greatest
Processor i7 12700K
Motherboard Z690 Rog Strix-E
Cooling Lian Li Galahad 360
Memory corsair vengeance Ddr5 4800
Video Card(s) 2080ti
Storage 980 pro gen4
Display(s) LG C1 4K 120Mhz
Case fractal meshify2
Audio Device(s) Realtec 4080
Power Supply Corsair rm1000x
So, a 10% increase in performance vs. last generation, as per usual for decades now? I'm not being sarcastic as I've not delved into the numbers and just assume more of the same I've grown accustomed to over the years from Intel.
 
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
Messages
711 (0.10/day)
Longer compared to what, no cache? If the data is not in the cache, the CPU has to get the data from memory, which is X times slower than from fetching it from cache. The more cache you have, the more frequently accessed data can be stored in the cache, and the faster data fetch and cpu operation can happen.
How the CPU know what is in the cache? Magic ?

No, it have to look up, and a simple way represent it is the larger the cache, the longer it take to look it up.

But to details this a bit, Cache do not cache data, that is a misconception. The CPU at that level is just aware of instruction and memory address. The way the cache work is by caching memory region.

A ultra fast lookup would be to just cache one contiguous memory region. The lookup would be just, is that memory address is in this region? yes/no, then done. The thing is caching a single 3 MB region would have a disastrous cache hit ratio so it wouldn't make sense to do it. Instead they cache smaller region of memory and this is were the trade off happen.

The smaller the region, the higher will be the hit ratio but at the same time, the longer it will take to see if the data is in there. Working with cache isn't just more is better. it's a balance you do when you design a CPU. By example, AMD frequently went with Larger L1 and L2 but had slower cache speed. And by example, Core 2 Duo had 3 MB of L2 per core (merged into a 6 MB shared L2). So 3 MB L2 isn't new. But at that time they didn't had L3.

The thing with cache is you have to look it up every time. If you get a L1 hit, perfect, you just had to look up at that. if you have a cache miss at all level, you still have to check if the data was in L1, then L2, then L3, Then you access it from memory. There is a cache miss penalty over not having cache at all, but if you make your stuff properly, it can way outperform accessing the memory all the time. But the way you do it can greatly impact performance. You need to find the right balance for your architecture.

Generally, L1 is ultra fast and very low latency and very close to the core itself. The L2 is generally dedicated to the core, contain a fair bit much of data needed by that core and L3 is shared across all core and is generally a victim cache (It contain the data that got evicted from L2). That setup worked well.

Intel isn't stupid, so they must think that the new core need a larger cache to be fed. It's possible that they are mitigating the larger cache size with longer pipeline or other technique. In the end it take transistor and the more you put, the larger your chip is and the more expensive it cost.

Designing is always about tradeoff and there, I was just wondering if that was the way to go. In the past, architecture that were near their last redesign frequently had larger cache than their successors because at that point, adding cache was the best thing to do without a full redesign.
 
Joined
Jul 9, 2016
Messages
1,081 (0.35/day)
System Name Main System
Processor i9-10940x
Motherboard MSI X299 Xpower Gaming AC
Cooling Noctua NH-D15S + Second Fan
Memory G.Skill 64GB @3200MHz XMP
Video Card(s) ASUS Strix RTX 3090 24GB
Storage 2TB Samsung 970 EVO Plus; 2TB Corsair Force MP600; 2TB Samsung PM981a
Display(s) Dell U4320Q; LG 43MU79-B
Case Corsair A540
Audio Device(s) Creative Lab SoundBlaster ZX-R
Power Supply EVGA G2 1300
Mouse Logitech MK550
Keyboard Corsair K95 Platinum XT Brown Switches
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores Cinebench R20 - 6910; FireStrike Ultra - 13241; TimeSpy Extreme - 10067; Port Royal - 13855
How the CPU know what is in the cache? Magic ?

No, it have to look up, and a simple way represent it is the larger the cache, the longer it take to look it up.

But to details this a bit, Cache do not cache data, that is a misconception. The CPU at that level is just aware of instruction and memory address. The way the cache work is by caching memory region.

A ultra fast lookup would be to just cache one contiguous memory region. The lookup would be just, is that memory address is in this region? yes/no, then done. The thing is caching a single 3 MB region would have a disastrous cache hit ratio so it wouldn't make sense to do it. Instead they cache smaller region of memory and this is were the trade off happen.

The smaller the region, the higher will be the hit ratio but at the same time, the longer it will take to see if the data is in there. Working with cache isn't just more is better. it's a balance you do when you design a CPU. By example, AMD frequently went with Larger L1 and L2 but had slower cache speed. And by example, Core 2 Duo had 3 MB of L2 per core (merged into a 6 MB shared L2). So 3 MB L2 isn't new. But at that time they didn't had L3.

The thing with cache is you have to look it up every time. If you get a L1 hit, perfect, you just had to look up at that. if you have a cache miss at all level, you still have to check if the data was in L1, then L2, then L3, Then you access it from memory. There is a cache miss penalty over not having cache at all, but if you make your stuff properly, it can way outperform accessing the memory all the time. But the way you do it can greatly impact performance. You need to find the right balance for your architecture.

Generally, L1 is ultra fast and very low latency and very close to the core itself. The L2 is generally dedicated to the core, contain a fair bit much of data needed by that core and L3 is shared across all core and is generally a victim cache (It contain the data that got evicted from L2). That setup worked well.

Intel isn't stupid, so they must think that the new core need a larger cache to be fed. It's possible that they are mitigating the larger cache size with longer pipeline or other technique. In the end it take transistor and the more you put, the larger your chip is and the more expensive it cost.

Designing is always about tradeoff and there, I was just wondering if that was the way to go. In the past, architecture that were near their last redesign frequently had larger cache than their successors because at that point, adding cache was the best thing to do without a full redesign.
Oh, you are talking about slower when the CPU has a cache miss. Yes it is a tradeoff, but studies have shown that a cache hit is above 80%, sometimes as much as above 90%. The speed increase from a cache hit, overall with larger cache size, is worth it on average with a high cache hit. Certainly, there could come to a point of diminishing return, but we are not there yet, as engineers have shown by improving the cache storing algorithms to improve the performance. It is not just a linear search of all the addresses, as they do break the cache down to regions or sets, that is where the name of set associative cache comes from.
 
Joined
Mar 24, 2019
Messages
657 (0.31/day)
Location
Denmark - Aarhus
System Name Iglo
Processor 5800X3D
Motherboard TUF GAMING B550-PLUS WIFI II
Cooling Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360
Memory 32 gigs - 3600hz
Video Card(s) EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 SC2 GAMING
Storage NvmE x2 + SSD + spinning rust
Display(s) BenQ XL2420Z - lenovo both 27" and 1080p 144/60
Case Fractal Design Meshify C TG Black
Audio Device(s) Logitech Z-2300 2.1 200w Speaker /w 8 inch subwoofer
Power Supply Seasonic Prime Ultra Platinum 550w
Mouse Logitech G900
Keyboard Corsair k100 Air Wireless RGB Cherry MX
Software win 10
Benchmark Scores Super-PI 1M T: 7,993 s :CinebR20: 5755 point GeekB: 2097 S-11398-M 3D :TS 7674/12260
I most likely will upgrade to 8800x3d or 9900x3d. Yikes those temps scare me! I don't break 54 Celsius in a lot of games with my 5600x3d. It's so cold I love it
I wonder how much you payed for the broken 5800X3D :)
 
Top