Lian Li Sues Phanteks Over Fan Design Patent

[T0@st]

Lian Li Industries has filed a legal case against Phanteks Europe/Axpertec Inc. at the US District Court (Central District of California)—they allege in their patent suit that the Phanteks D30 RGB cooling fan series infringes on a June 2020 registered design (US patent 10,690,336 B1). Notice was initially sent out back in May of this year, but Phanteks appears to have ignored those early warning signs and continued to market and sell its D30 RGB products. Lian Li believes that Phanteks has copied their simple and compact connection method of daisy chaining RGB fans—as featured on the UNI FAN lineup. The P28 120 mm model was semi-recently awarded with a highly recommended verdict.

TechPowerUp reviewers have not had the chance to have a poke around with any Phanteks daisy-chainable D30 RGB fans, but a quick comparative glance between relevant product pages reveals a little bit of "inspired-by." The September 8 filing has Lian Li seeking damages to date—upon a successful outcome (in their favor). Additionally Phanteks will be required to pay a license fee if it decides to keep its D30 series alive post-case conclusion. Corsair and Thermaltake have also produced fan products with daisy-chaining connectivity—iCUE Link and SWAFAN EX respectively—could these manufacturers be targeted in the near future?



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[Chaitanya]

Closed off protocols and now sueing over patent infringment(if Phanteks has downright cloned in which case Phanteks can join Shitsus in brands to avoid) not a good going from Lian Li.

 

[thesmokingman]

These patents on cooling gear is kind sophomoric.

 

[Avro Arrow]

Well, I find this kinda funny actually because when it comes to fans, the makers with the best specs tend to be Cooler Master, Noctua and Arctic. I've never been impressed by the specifications of Lian Li or Phanteks.

Having said that, I also don't give a rat's posterior about "intellectual property" anymore because intellectual property laws were originally written with the idea that a patent or copyright would expire no more than 15 after its creation. Now we have Nintendo trying to sue emulator programmers over copyright infringement for properties that were en vogue well over 30 years ago.

As far as I'm concerned, these laws hurt progress more than they help it because you get companies that just buy a bunch of IP and sit on it, leeching from an entire industry while offering nothing to it. When the IP laws are made fair and reasonable again, ONLY THEN will I take any interest in their outcomes.

 

[Fungi]

You gotta feel for Lian Li though, with everyone copying the O11D and now the Unifans. Surely there are other ways to daisy chain fans without infringing patents?

 

[thesmokingman]

You gotta feel for Lian Li though, with everyone copying the O11D and now the Unifans. Surely there are other ways to daisy chain fans without infringing patents?

TBF though the idea of daisy chaining is old and the idiea is taken by one and applied to a different field. That doesn't it make it unique.

 

[ITISTIME]

Someone in the Lian Li subreddit posted the case number for Lian Li suing Thermaltake the same day.

https://www.reddit.com/r/lianli/comments/16gqf7y

Lian Li Industrial Co., Ltd. et al v. Thermaltake Technology, Co., Ltd. et al

Patent case filed on September 8, 2023 in the California Central District Court

dockets.justia.com

 

[Nanochip]

Can you really patent the idea of daisy chaining fans together via a copper connector, and have them work off of one cable? What about the circuitry to tie the fans together in the controller box and communicate with the USB bus/driver… that takes work too.

the idea of daisy chaining is nothing new. Thunderbolt has daisy chaining support.

I wonder if the patent will be declared invalid ?

 

[Totally]

These patents on cooling gear is kind sophomoric.

Regardless of how one feels about the patent, being unbiased it's hard not to side with Lian Li on this. Before LL debuted their product how many modular fans existed? It's not like they authored the patent and have been sitting on it for the past 10 years j"ust waiting for a mfker".

 

[Gmr_Chick]

Regardless of how one feels about the patent, being unbiased it's hard not to side with Lian Li on this. Before LL debuted their product how many modular fans existed? It's not like they authored the patent and have been sitting on it for the past 10 years j"ust waiting for a mfker".

To be fair, I think Arctic's BioniX ARGB fan was one of the earliest examples I can remember.

https://www.arctic.de/us/BioniX-P120-A-RGB/ACFAN00146A

Guess greedy-ass Lian Li will be suing them too

 

[TechLurker]

Regardless of how one feels about the patent, being unbiased it's hard not to side with Lian Li on this. Before LL debuted their product how many modular fans existed? It's not like they authored the patent and have been sitting on it for the past 10 years j"ust waiting for a mfker".

I believe InWin had daisy-chainable fans before Lian Li did, although InWin's version uses short wire connectors going corner to corner instead of being an on-frame direct-connection like Lian Li's, which seems to be the heart of the matter.

Although after Lian Li's design, I recall there being a china-only brand that did something similar for much cheaper, although it's just a basic 120 design, nothing as fancy as Lian Li's, but it did use a similar on-frame connection.

That said, I think Phantek's design might stand on its own; their connection points are different, being on the corners rather than along the sides, and requiring a second piece to bridge them, VS Lian Li's being more integrated.

 

[Diverge]

People have been using fan splitter cables since forever. The only difference with it integrated into the fan is cosmetics and neatness.

 

[Totally]

To be fair, I think Arctic's BioniX ARGB fan was one of the earliest examples I can remember.

https://www.arctic.de/us/BioniX-P120-A-RGB/ACFAN00146A

Guess greedy-ass Lian Li will be suing them too

Not really modular still needs a cable link in between the fans, Mr Contrarian.

I believe InWin had daisy-chainable fans before Lian Li did, although InWin's version uses short wire connectors going corner to corner instead of being an on-frame direct-connection like Lian Li's, which seems to be the heart of the matter.

Although after Lian Li's design, I recall there being a china-only brand that did something similar for much cheaper, although it's just a basic 120 design, nothing as fancy as Lian Li's, but it did use a similar on-frame connection.

That said, I think Phantek's design might stand on its own; their connection points are different, being on the corners rather than along the sides, and requiring a second piece to bridge them, VS Lian Li's being more integrated.

InWin's fans needed also needed and still utilized a small cable to link the fans, I don't about the china-only one you mentioned.

 

[Leiesoldat]

Whether Lian Li goes after Corsair will depend on the nature of Lian Li's design patent. Corsair's implementation of daisy chaining fan components appears to have a different mechanical method than what is listed for Lian Li.

 

[Haile Selassie]

Whether Lian Li goes after Corsair will depend on the nature of Lian Li's design patent. Corsair's implementation of daisy chaining fan components appears to have a different mechanical method than what is listed for Lian Li.

Not just mechanical, but also electrical. IIRC Corsair fan is more of an 'USB' device than a typical computer fan.

 

[TechLurker]

Not really modular still needs a cable link in between the fans, Mr Contrarian.

InWin's fans needed also needed and still utilized a small cable to link the fans

You only asked what fans were directly daisy chain-able, and you were given at least 2 answers where the idea was tried before Lian Li. The Bionix required a tiny male/male pin connector to direct-link two or more fans, while the InWin versions use short wire connections, which I stated. Neither were perfect, but they did the fan-to-fan daisy chain idea earlier. Don't be moving the goalposts now.

But I'll throw you a bone and admit that Lian Li did do the first direct connection daisy chain setup. However, besides Phanteks, they also have to deal with Corsair too, who also have their own fan-to-fan daisy chain system. Phanteks' and Corsair's implementations are different enough from Lian Li's to likely survive any challenges.

 

[Totally]

You only asked what fans were directly daisy chain-able, and you were given at least 2 answers where the idea was tried before Lian Li. The Bionix required a tiny male/male pin connector to direct-link two or more fans, while the InWin versions use short wire connections, which I stated. Neither were perfect, but they did the fan-to-fan daisy chain idea earlier. Don't be moving the goalposts now.

But I'll throw you a bone and admit that Lian Li did do the first direct connection daisy chain setup. However, besides Phanteks, they also have to deal with Corsair too, who also have their own fan-to-fan daisy chain system. Phanteks' and Corsair's implementations are different enough from Lian Li's to likely survive any challenges.

I didn't move crap, your the one who made your own goal, scored, and started having a post-scoring celebration. I said modular not daisy-chainable, and modular usu means independent, self-contained units. The lian-li fan just snaps together with magnets, no fussing with a jumper or cables.

 

[INSTG8R]

And here I am waiting for Seasonics MagFlows so I can replace my ancient 2pin 360 rad fans...

MagFlow 120 mm

MagFlow 120 mm

seasonic.com

 

[illusion archives]

Well, Phantek reacted Lian Li's plaint on China BiliBili platform:

验证码_哔哩哔哩

Phantek said it has patents in US\DE\CN.

 

[Chaitanya]

Someone in the Lian Li subreddit posted the case number for Lian Li suing Thermaltake the same day.

https://www.reddit.com/r/lianli/comments/16gqf7y

Lian Li Industrial Co., Ltd. et al v. Thermaltake Technology, Co., Ltd. et al

Patent case filed on September 8, 2023 in the California Central District Court

dockets.justia.com

Thermaltake uses magnets in order to link fans together and they dont have latches anywhere, looks like Lian-Li has gone down the route of Asstek.

 

[FoulOnWhite]

Well it is certainly similar, but not sure if it is a copy of lian lis method.

I am using 4x uni fans for my case front and it is certainly a good thing having all 4 ramp up/down together and only take up 1 slot on my OCTO controller.

 

[Athlonite]

Phanteks D30's use a separate bridge to connect their fans together whereas Lian-Li use pin/pads on each fan though they look similar they're not similar enough to infringe on Lian-Li's patent so I don't think Lian-Li is going to have a leg to stand on in this case

 

[AnotherReader]

Can you really patent the idea of daisy chaining fans together via a copper connector, and have them work off of one cable? What about the circuitry to tie the fans together in the controller box and communicate with the USB bus/driver… that takes work too.

the idea of daisy chaining is nothing new. Thunderbolt has daisy chaining support.

I wonder if the patent will be declared invalid ?

Some of you might be too young to know of SCSI. That standard supported daisy chains before Lian Li's founding.

 

[TechLurker]

I didn't move crap, your the one who made your own goal, scored, and started having a post-scoring celebration. I said modular not daisy-chainable, and modular usu means independent, self-contained units. The lian-li fan just snaps together with magnets, no fussing with a jumper or cables.

Then by that definition the 2 mentioned were also modular, as they can all be self-contained, independent units up to a maximum of 4 per unit (or 6 for the InWins). The connection method is different, but the end result is still one wire set going to a fan header and one wire set going to an RGB header. Heck, both are even advertised as modular by that definition.

You seem to be arguing more about the combined frame-lock w/ integrated connector design rather than about modularity. In that regard, Lian Li has done it first (AFAIK, in the consumer space), no questions about that. It's been done separately at different points in time. And going by your argument, then Phanteks and Corsair are perfectly safe too, since Phanteks' design requires two bridges (one powered and one not) and does not slide-lock into place, and Corsair's design requires bridge connectors like the old Artic BioniX (but via 2 connectors as well; one for pass-through and one for rigidity purposes). The old BioniX could technically support the middle fan or two in vertical setups without securing the middle fans, and they could stand to update the design to just have a second bridge connector for rigidity similar to Corsair for use in horizontal setups.

 

[thesmokingman]

Thermaltake uses magnets in order to link fans together and they dont have latches anywhere, looks like Lian-Li has gone down the route of Asstek.

This is Corners all over again.