Intel Introduces Thunderbolt 5 Connectivity Standard, Bandwidth up to 120 Gbps

[TheLostSwede]

Fiber optic cables themselves are cheap. Especially if you buy a whole reel and you don't want them to be from a world famous leading brand.

Thunderbolt cables have to be certified by Intel so...
Technically, USB cables by the USB-IF, but it's not enforced as long as you don't use their logo.

Not for power delivery though, which is one of the big things for Thunderbolt/USB 4 for me.

There are optical cables that can handle power too, they just run copper for the power next to the fibre.
That said, it doesn't look like anyone made one for Thunderbolt.

 

[HOkay]

There are optical cables that can handle power too, they just run copper for the power next to the fibre.
That said, it doesn't look like anyone made one for Thunderbolt.

Oh cool, I've never seen those before. Though I'm not sure on the sensible max length for a small bit of copper delivering 240W, is that still low power enough to be ok for runs of 10s of meters?

 

[TheLostSwede]

Oh cool, I've never seen those before. Though I'm not sure on the sensible max length for a small bit of copper delivering 240W, is that still low power enough to be ok for runs of 10s of meters?

You can just use a bit better wire guage and you should see less of a power drop over a long distance, but as it's high Voltage and still only 5 A, it should be possible to do quite long runs if data isn't taken into account.
This company does up to at least 10 meter long cables like that, although that one is limited to 60 W.

ACT USB-C Active Optical Cable (AOC) for long distances

Read more about the USB-C AOC cable, or Active Optical Cable and how it differs from regular copper USB-C cables. AOC cables have copper and glass fiber cores. This makes Active Optical Cables, unlike traditional USB cables, suitable for connections over longer distances.

www.act-connectivity.com

 

[HOkay]

You can just use a bit better wire guage and you should see less of a power drop over a long distance, but as it's high Voltage and still only 5 A, it should be possible to do quite long runs if data isn't taken into account.

Ah I didn't realise it was 5A all the way up to 240W! Fair enough, 48v 5A doesn't need that big a gauge I suppose so it's probably still quite easy to slap inside a sheath with some fibre.

 

[eldon_magi]

You can just use a bit better wire guage and you should see less of a power drop over a long distance, but as it's high Voltage and still only 5 A, it should be possible to do quite long runs if data isn't taken into account.
This company does up to at least 10 meter long cables like that, although that one is limited to 60 W.

ACT USB-C Active Optical Cable (AOC) for long distances

Read more about the USB-C AOC cable, or Active Optical Cable and how it differs from regular copper USB-C cables. AOC cables have copper and glass fiber cores. This makes Active Optical Cables, unlike traditional USB cables, suitable for connections over longer distances.

www.act-connectivity.com

only 214 EUR on german Amazon, and max 10 meters. With a quick scroll, seems even with optical, it's 10 Gbit max after 10 meters.
Much cheaper to buy a boosted copper cable, it gets the same 10Gbit over 15 meters, for about 1/10 of the price.

Point is the manufacturers of optical DP, HDMI and USB cabled have to come up with their own implementations, there is no standard. We need a standard and mass production.

The 10 meter or 15 meter optical USB-c cales on Amazon do 10 Gbit or 4k@60 Hz max, range from about 140 EUR to 400 EUR and means i can't use Monitor chainlinking.

The optical DP cables have come down abit in price now about 50-60 EUR for 15 meters. My DP to USB-c monitor in adapter arrives today, and will determine if i can have 2 DP inputs on my screen that way.

Still waiting for the budget to buy 4x 15 meter optical DP cables, plus 1x boosted 15 meter USB cable, plus additional DP to USB-c adapters to be able to move my desk to where i need it. It will cost me about 300 EUR, and i will only have 4k@60Hz max.

And i will have a massive bundle of cables to route over the floor. It's ridiculous.

 

[TumbleGeorge]

Fibre optic is enough cheap. 300 meters(~984 feet) for $90. Yes need of kit with instruments for work with fibre and skills. But kits also has offers which is not too expensive.

 

[TheLostSwede]

only 214 EUR on german Amazon, and max 10 meters. With a quick scroll, seems even with optical, it's 10 Gbit max after 10 meters.
Much cheaper to buy a boosted copper cable, it gets the same 10Gbit over 15 meters, for about 1/10 of the price.

Point is the manufacturers of optical DP, HDMI and USB cabled have to come up with their own implementations, there is no standard. We need a standard and mass production.

The 10 meter or 15 meter optical USB-c cales on Amazon do 10 Gbit or 4k@60 Hz max, range from about 140 EUR to 400 EUR and means i can't use Monitor chainlinking.

The optical DP cables have come down abit in price now about 50-60 EUR for 15 meters. My DP to USB-c monitor in adapter arrives today, and will determine if i can have 2 DP inputs on my screen that way.

Still waiting for the budget to buy 4x 15 meter optical DP cables, plus 1x boosted 15 meter USB cable, plus additional DP to USB-c adapters to be able to move my desk to where i need it. It will cost me about 300 EUR, and i will only have 4k@60Hz max.

And i will have a massive bundle of cables to route over the floor. It's ridiculous.

It's not the fibre itself that's the limitation, it's the conversion chips that translates the electrical signal to optical and back.
Here's a USB4 one that does 40 Gbps, but is still limited to 60 W.

USB4 Gen3 Active Optical Cable

FOCI USB4 Gen3 AOC are design for high-end peripheral devices that use a USB Type-C connector to transfer data. The USB type C to type C AOC can provide you impressive performance while providing a reliable plug-and-play user experience. With hybrid cable

www.foci.com.tw

Another 40 Gbps option here, but it appears to be Thunderbolt only.

Products USB-C - Pure Fi

pure-fi.com

This one appears to do 5A power, so should be good to at least 100 W if not 240 W.

USB4 AOC TypeC| BKSTEC Product

BKSTEC USB4 AOC cable provides nominal dual-lane data transfer speeds of up to 40Gbps.

www.bkstec.com

 

[trsttte]

Not for power delivery though, which is one of the big things for Thunderbolt/USB 4 for me.

Why do you care about power delivery at all if you're running fiber thunderbolt/USB4 to a pc in a seperate space?

The PC can be powered where it is, and so can the peripherals on your desk, what gap is 240W PD filling?

 

[eldon_magi]

Why do you care about power delivery at all if you're running fiber thunderbolt/USB4 to a pc in a seperate space?

The PC can be powered where it is, and so can the peripherals on your desk, what gap is 240W PD filling?

That's true for me. Just received the DeLock DP to USB-c alt-mode in, doesn't work with my monitor. Currently i'm using a cheap chinese DP switch box, to get 2x DP to my screen with only one DP input, one HDMI, and one USB-c alt-mode. But it's bad quality, causes several second blank screen resync issues etc..

Next try will have to be mini-DP to HDMI adapter, and then to buy a optical 15 meter HDMI cable, and try that.. Not really relevant to this thread, but still.. @TumbleGeorge is suggesting i buy a reel of fiber optical cable, and build my own signal converters lol, don't be ridiculous.

My point remains, we need longer 40Gbps USB4/TB cables, that don't cost hundreds of euros each. @TheLostSwede those are great cables but they go from 140 EUR to 400 EUR EACH. C'mon.

As for power delivery, at 10 or 15 meters, it's not necessary to run it through the same cable along the optical fibers, a simple powersupply on the endpoint that connects to the end of the cable can do that, just like the powered copper USB extension cables.

But we needs standards for these, so they can be mass produced and cheap. 200 EUR for a single cable is not cheap, especially when you need multiples of them

 

[TheLostSwede]

My point remains, we need longer 40Gbps USB4/TB cables, that don't cost hundreds of euros each. @TheLostSwede those are great cables but they go from 140 EUR to 400 EUR EACH. C'mon.

As for power delivery, at 10 or 15 meters, it's not necessary to run it through the same cable along the optical fibers, a simple powersupply on the endpoint that connects to the end of the cable can do that, just like the powered copper USB extension cables.

But we needs standards for these, so they can be mass produced and cheap. 200 EUR for a single cable is not cheap, especially when you need multiples of them

Supply and demand, there's simply not enough demand to bring down the cost and these cables are usually assembled by hand. Yes, I've been to a company that makes them and it's quite labour intesive to produce these types of cables, which is also in part why they're so expensive. The fibre only ones are cheaper.

If you just want a simple optical one, try this one for HDMI 2.1, $68 for 15 meters.

8K Fiber Optic HDMI Cable| VIVIFY XENOS W35

High-quality 48Gbps bandwidth HDMI signal over a long distance with support for 8K60Hz and 4K120Hz resolution, Dynamic HDR, eARC, dts-HD, Variable Refresh Rate (VRR), Auto Low Latency Mode (ALLM), and more.

www.vivify.cc

 

[eldon_magi]

Supply and demand, there's simply not enough demand to bring down the cost and these cables are usually assembled by hand. Yes, I've been to a company that makes them and it's quite labour intesive to produce these types of cables, which is also in part why they're so expensive. The fibre only ones are cheaper.

If you just want a simple optical one, try this one for HDMI 2.1, $68 for 15 meters.

8K Fiber Optic HDMI Cable| VIVIFY XENOS W35

High-quality 48Gbps bandwidth HDMI signal over a long distance with support for 8K60Hz and 4K120Hz resolution, Dynamic HDR, eARC, dts-HD, Variable Refresh Rate (VRR), Auto Low Latency Mode (ALLM), and more.

www.vivify.cc

Yes, when i started looking at 15 meter optical DP and HDMI cables, they were about 100 EUR for 15 meters, they have come down to 50-70 EUR the past 6 months or so. That helps me a lot since i need 4 of them combined.

But that isn't the point of this thread though, the point is the new, over 10 Gbit/s USB/TB standards, that combine data, video, audio. So now the latest USB4 standard is like 0.8-1 max cable length. That's not feasible even for users with their computers next to the table, not to mention my situation where my server has multiple GPU's to run Desktop systems in VM, that feed my screens. That server outputs 360W plus 24/7 when transcoding video for example, heating the room it's in to 35-40 degrees. So i can't run that in the same room i work in.

Same goes for my desktop, i need ATX sized mid-case, i'm not gonna start buying some mini PC that can't be upgraded. i refuse to have all these boxes in the living room where the screens are. These cable lengths are just not feasible.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Yes, when i started looking at 15 meter optical DP and HDMI cables, they were about 100 EUR for 15 meters, they have come down to 50-70 EUR the past 6 months or so. That helps me a lot since i need 4 of them combined.

But that isn't the point of this thread though, the point is the new, over 10 Gbit/s USB/TB standards, that combine data, video, audio. So now the latest USB4 standard is like 0.8-1 max cable length. That's not feasible even for users with their computers next to the table, not to mention my situation where my server has multiple GPU's to run Desktop systems in VM, that feed my screens. That server outputs 360W plus 24/7 when transcoding video for example, heating the room it's in to 35-40 degrees. So i can't run that in the same room i work in.

Same goes for my desktop, i need ATX sized mid-case, i'm not gonna start buying some mini PC that can't be upgraded. i refuse to have all these boxes in the living room where the screens are. These cable lengths are just not feasible.

Thunderbolt 5 and USB4 Gen 4 doesn't really "combine" video and data though, it's one or the other, or you get gimped speeds on both.
Yes, technically you could do 40 Gbps each, but that means one display and "basic" data speeds.
That said, there aren't any host controllers available for either, so why would there be cables for either?

Your specific problem, will not be solved with a single cable this decade.

 

[HOkay]

I'm in the UK, I've got the problem of needing a room to put the PCs in before needing cables to run to them !