Moore Threads Prepares S90 and S4000 GPUs for Gaming and Data Center

[AleksandarK]

Moore Threads Technology (MTT), a Chinese GPU manufacturer, is reportedly testing its next-generation graphics processors for client PCs and data centers. The products under scrutiny are the MTT S90 for client/gaming computers and the MTT S4000 for data centers. Characterized by their Device IDs, 0301 and 0323, this could imply that these GPUs belong to MTT's 3rd generation GPU lineup. While few details about these GPUs are available, the new Device IDs suggest a possible introduction of a novel microarchitecture following the MTT Chunxiao GPU series. The current generation Chunxiao series, featuring the MTT S70, MTT S80, and MTT S3000, failed to compete effectively with AMD, Intel, and NVIDIA GPUs.

Thanks to @Löschzwerg who found the Device Hunt submission, we see hardware identifiers in PCI ID and USB ID repositories earlier than launch, as this often signals the testing of new chips or drivers by various companies. In the case of MTT, the latest developments are complicated by its recent inclusion on the U.S. Entity List, limiting its access to US-made technologies. This introduces a problem for the company, as they can't access TSMC's facilities for chip production, and will have to turn to domestic production in the likely case, with SMIC being the only leading option to consider.



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[Denver]

It is an Irrelevant product.
The only possible use of something so inefficient is if you don't have access to other options.

 

[ZoneDymo]

It is an Irrelevant product.
The only possible use of something so inefficient is if you don't have access to other options.

Tesla's were also at some point an "irrelevant product"
Sorry but your comment is just very shortsighted, these steps are needed to reach something that will compete.

 

[Denver]

Tesla's were also at some point an "irrelevant product"
Sorry but your comment is just very shortsighted, these steps are needed to reach something that will compete.

No, they won't. My vision is based on objective aspects and possibilities of the real world. I can guarantee you that.

There's a reason there's a duopoly in the GPU market, AMD and Nvidia control enough IP that no one can compete with them. Even Intel pays AMD to not incur patent infringement.

Tesla thrived in a market with no competition, no strings attached. It's a meaningless comparison

 

[ZoneDymo]

No, they won't. My vision is based on objective aspects and possibilities of the real world. I can guarantee you that.

There's a reason there's a duopoly in the GPU market, AMD and Nvidia control enough IP that no one can compete with them. Even Intel pays AMD to not incur patent infringement.

Tesla thrived in a market with no competition, no strings attached. It's a meaningless comparison

Oh yeah, the car market, totally free of competition and patents, slipped my mind entirely......

I also have no clue why you think that having to pay to use a patent means you cannot compete.....that is such an, I have trouble putting into words how silly that chain of thought is, its like being aware and unaware of how things work at the same time.

 

[Denver]

Oh yeah, the car market, totally free of competition and patents, slipped my mind entirely......

I also have no clue why you think that having to pay to use a patent means you cannot compete.....that is such an, I have trouble putting into words how silly that chain of thought is, its like being aware and unaware of how things work at the same time.

I don't want to get into another discussion that diverges from the topic, but... Yeah, Tesla is only facing real competition now.

To embrace the challenge of competing with AMD and Nvidia and their thousands of engineers, as well as their billions in capital, several key factors must be in place:

First, you need the capital to cover the hundreds of millions required to develop a chip using the latest manufacturing process, as competing without being in the same process is not feasible, assuming there is available capacity.

Second, you have to procure volumes equivalent to those of AMD and Nvidia, as larger scale translates to lower costs per unit, and these companies receive special discounts from TSMC for obvious reasons.

Third, you must provide software support (drivers) and collaborate with gaming companies throughout the planned lifespan of your product. This will entail additional expenditure.

Fourth, you will need to perform exceptionally well to succeed on all the above points, pay for third-party IP, and still maintain sustainable competitiveness. Based on a superficial overview, this company is already just using imagination IP, which isn't a big deal. It's easier to wait for water to turn into gasoline than to wait for a company like this to bring a GPU capable of facing the titans. Consider Intel, which, despite having the financial resources to withstand potential setbacks and losses, faces challenges in this regard.

 

[evernessince]

Oh yeah, the car market, totally free of competition and patents, slipped my mind entirely......

I also have no clue why you think that having to pay to use a patent means you cannot compete.....that is such an, I have trouble putting into words how silly that chain of thought is, its like being aware and unaware of how things work at the same time.

I believe he meant in regards to the electric vehicle market, which I do agree that the big automakers kind of just left open for anyone to come in and establish themselves.

To come into the CPU and especially the GPU market is a monumental task. Even if your 1st gen GPU somehow ends up being better than whatever Nvidia or AMD has, which would be an amazing feat of engineering to do so without infringing on patents or just in general, consumers aren't likely to purchase your product because proprietary features like CUDA, Reflex, ect mean that your card can't be used in any professional capacity and will lack a lot of software features compared to competitors simply because many games utilize features that only work on a single GPU brand. Your GPU might as well be a brick in adobe software, which alone is going to loose you 20-30% of your marketshare. In addition, as a new market player you are at a disadvantage as existing players can control game features and performance to an extent with game sponsorships.

The level of entrenchment in the GPU market essentially makes it near impossible to enter. The fact that Intel is having trouble when it already has experience making GPUs, with sponsorships, and with implementing software features just goes to show you how difficult it is to enter.

 

[Kasy21]

I believe he meant in regards to the electric vehicle market, which I do agree that the big automakers kind of just left open for anyone to come in and establish themselves.

To come into the CPU and especially the GPU market is a monumental task. Even if your 1st gen GPU somehow ends up being better than whatever Nvidia or AMD has, which would be an amazing feat of engineering to do so without infringing on patents or just in general, consumers aren't likely to purchase your product because proprietary features like CUDA, Reflex, ect mean that your card can't be used in any professional capacity and will lack a lot of software features compared to competitors simply because many games utilize features that only work on a single GPU brand. Your GPU might as well be a brick in adobe software, which alone is going to loose you 20-30% of your marketshare. In addition, as a new market player you are at a disadvantage as existing players can control game features and performance to an extent with game sponsorships.

The level of entrenchment in the GPU market essentially makes it near impossible to enter. The fact that Intel is having trouble when it already has experience making GPUs, with sponsorships, and with implementing software features just goes to show you how difficult it is to enter.

But you guys are leaving something that hasn't been talk about, it will be a titanic feat to achive some market share in the west, but I think that MTT is more focused in developing a data center chip to supply the chinese market and It for sure will have a ton of goverment funding if it achives a some what decent chip, the funding needed to keep developing the IC market in china and take more global IC manufacturing share, I actually think that they are not trying in the gaming sector, maybe they are making the "gaming "GPU just to not lose money with the fail chips that the have produced, there is a AI chip space race between all the chip developers in china to get a chip to substitute the nvidia data center ones and that they are just part of that.

 

[evernessince]

But you guys are leaving something that hasn't been talk about, it will be a titanic feat to achive some market share in the west, but I think that MTT is more focused in developing a data center chip to supply the chinese market and It for sure will have a ton of goverment funding if it achives a some what decent chip, the funding needed to keep developing the IC market in china and take more global IC manufacturing share, I actually think that they are not trying in the gaming sector, maybe they are making the "gaming "GPU just to not lose money with the fail chips that the have produced, there is a AI chip space race between all the chip developers in china to get a chip to substitute the nvidia data center ones and that they are just part of that.

I really don't see how the Chinese government funding them until they make something competent helps. China only has 4.36% of the data center market, the US alone has over 57.7%. Shoehorning themselves into likely even more sanctions and potenially blocking themselves off from larger markets would be insane for any company. Silicon is worth more than gold nowadays and no country is just going to let Chinese funded entities take control of something so critical it goes in everything from Cars to toy to Missiles.

 

[TumbleGeorge]

MTT S4000 revealed specifications. 200TOP's INT8 calculations.
PS. Almost same but better exposed in wcc*kek.