Intel Readies Xeon W-2500 Series with 4-channel Memory to Square Off Against Threadripper 7000

[btarunr]

The HEDT/workstation segment is heating up, with Intel preparing to launch a new line of low(er) core-count processor models with I/O features competitive to those of the AMD Ryzen Threadripper 7000 series for the AMD TRX50 platform. The new W-2500 series is designed for the same Intel W790 chipset Socket LGA4677 motherboards as the W-2400 series, but with increased CPU core-counts across the board. The top W-2500 series processor model comes with a 26-core/52-thread core-configuration, 2 MB of dedicated L2 cache per core, and 48.75 MB of shared L3 cache.

Where the Intel Xeon W-2500 series aces over the AMD Ryzen Threadripper 7000 (TRX50), is the platform I/O. While both processors offer a 4-channel DDR5 interface, the Intel chip offers a 64-lane PCI-Express Gen 5 root complex, in comparison to the 48-lane PCIe Gen 5 root complex from the processor. The TRX50 platform itself adds up to 88 PCIe lanes, but only 48 of these are Gen 5. The W-2500 series includes seven processor models, with the lowest model giving you 8-core/16-thread, and the highest one being 26-core/52-thread. Here the Threadripper 7000 TRX50 has a distinct advantage, as it offers core counts of up to 64-core/128-thread.



The series begins with the W3-2525 and W3-2535. The W3-2525 is an 8-core/16-thread model with a TDP of 175 W, clock speed of 3.50 GHz base, 4.50 GHz boost, 2 MB per core L2 cache, and 22.5 MB L3 cache. The W3-2535 goes a step up, with 10-core/20-thread, 185 W TDP, 4.60 GHz boost, and 26.25 MB L3 cache.

A notch above are the W5-2545, W5-2555X, and W5-2565X. The W5-2545 is 12-core/24-thread, with a 210 W TDP, 4.70 GHz maximum boost frequency, and 30 MB of shared L3 cache. The W5-2555X has the same 210 W TDP, but steps up to 14-core/28-thread, 4.80 GHz maximum boost frequency, and 33.75 MB L3 cache. The W5-2565X steps up the core counts to 18-core/36-thread, or what used to be the highest core counts for Intel HEDT processors under the Core X brand. It has the same 4.80 GHz maximum boost frequency as the W-2555X, but the additional cores mean that the TDP is stepped up to 240 W.

At the top of the product stack are the Xeon W7-2575X and W7-2595X. The W7-2575X comes with a core count of 22-core/44-thread, the same 240 W TDP as the W-2565X, the same 4.80 GHz boost frequency, but 45 MB of L3 cache. At the very top, is the W7-2595X, with 26-core/52-thread of muscle, 250 W TDP, 4.80 GHz maximum boost frequency, and 48.75 MB L3 cache.



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[nizhib]

Who would prefer PCI-E 5 over PCI-E 4 while having 26 cores instead of 64?

 

[Daven]

Who would prefer PCI-E 5 over PCI-E 4 while having 26 cores instead of 64?

I agree. HEDT is all about cores and maybe cores/$.

 

[Denver]

In what world does this compete with TR? Someone enlighten me.

 

[lemans24]

I agree. HEDT is all about cores and maybe cores/$.

If the w-2595x can be closer in price to the 7965x then Intel maybe a good option as I definitely would prefer 64 PCIE 5.0 lanes over 48.
The cinebench R23 scores for an overclocked w-2495x look extremely good but you need watercooling for sure.
Definitely will wait to compare the 24 core threadripper 7965x with the 26 core w-2595x, when become available for review in 2024.
But...if price is not a major factor, any threadripper over 24 cores beats Intel hands down.
Looks like Intel maybe waiting for Granite Rapids before they can have a full answer to threadripper.

In what world does this compete with TR? Someone enlighten me.

Intel looks like they maybe can compete on price/performance with the w-2595x against threadripper 7965x and if there is no w-3500 series refresh, I think they will price the complete w-2500 series under the 7965x price. Intel not competing above 24 core at all during this refresh.

 

[unwind-protect]

So they cripple the already slower Xeons even more? Nice way to compete.

 

[lemans24]

So they cripple the already slower Xeons even more? Nice way to compete.

Emerald Rapids is a refresh only for the server market and will be replaced supposedly with another year.
It makes no financial sense to compete directly with threadripper again until they come out with a Granite Rapids based workstation in 2025.
Makes more sense for a cheaper refresh of Saphire Rapids HEDT chips with their last 10nm node as Intel's future still looks pretty dire.

I have a threadripper 1950x from over 5 years ago and looking to upgrade and I am only remotely interested in the w-2595x from a price/performance perspective
otherwise I will be getting a threadripper 7965x.

Since I plan on keeping a new workstation for another 5+ years, I do not see much difference between w-2595x and threadripper 7965x except hopefully price/performance.

 

[AnarchoPrimitiv]

If the w-2595x can be closer in price to the 7965x then Intel maybe a good option as I definitely would prefer 64 PCIE 5.0 lanes over 48.
The cinebench R23 scores for an overclocked w-2495x look extremely good but you need watercooling for sure.
Definitely will wait to compare the 24 core threadripper 7965x with the 26 core w-2595x, when become available for review in 2024.
But...if price is not a major factor, any threadripper over 24 cores beats Intel hands down.
Looks like Intel maybe waiting for Granite Rapids before they can have a full answer to threadripper.


Intel looks like they maybe can compete on price/performance with the w-2595x against threadripper 7965x and if there is no w-3500 series refresh, I think they will price the complete w-2500 series under the 7965x price. Intel not competing above 24 core at all during this refresh.

If you go to pugetsystem and look at their review of the w-3400 series, it can't even beat Zen3 threadripper and puget shows that the Zen3 threadripper has a 10%-15% average advantage, so I have no idea how this will compete with Zen4 Threadripper

 

[Upgrayedd]

I assume these 25xx series are still monolithic?

Really wish we had a consumer HEDT back. Cause 20 pcie lanes and dual channel are getting rather stale.. Can't even add another m.2 without going through the chipset on mainstream consumer stuff. I guess the LCC chips kinda fill that gap.

 

[lemans24]

If you go to pugetsystem and look at their review of the w-3400 series, it can't even beat Zen3 threadripper and puget shows that the Zen3 threadripper has a 10%-15% average advantage, so I have no idea how this will compete with Zen4 Threadripper

If all you care about is performance regardless of price then threadripper clobbers xeon workstations hands down.
But on the low core count w-3400 series (below 16 cores) where PCIE 5.0 I/O is more important, such as AI development using multiple high performance gpu's, w-3400 can be competitive for small companies.
Intel is definitely NOT competing with threadripper 7000 PRO series at all but w-2595x looks like a maybe to me. Time will tell.

I currently DIY my workstation(s) so price/performance is more important for a 5+ year lifetime.

 

[Chaitanya]

If all you care about is performance regardless of price then threadripper clobbers xeon workstations hands down.
But on the low core count w-3400 series (below 16 cores) where PCIE 5.0 I/O is more important, such as AI development using multiple high performance gpu's, w-3400 can be competitive for small companies.
Intel is definitely NOT competing with threadripper 7000 PRO series at all but w-2595x looks like a maybe to me. Time will tell.

I currently DIY my workstation(s) so price/performance is more important for a 5+ year lifetime.

AMD has launched Threadripper 7000 with 24, 32 and 64 Cores with PCI-e 5 connectivity(48 Lanes) and that is what these Xeon W-2500 seem to target and will fall short off both in terms of performance and power consumption.

 

[lemans24]

AMD has launched Threadripper 7000 with 24, 32 and 64 Cores with PCI-e 5 connectivity(48 Lanes) and that is what these Xeon W-2500 seem to target and will fall short off both in terms of performance and power consumption.

If Intel does NOT come out with w-3500 refresh then I think they are just competing on price/performance against 7965x.
If you need 32 cores or more, why not just get the 7000 PRO series with 128 PCIE 5.0 lanes??
Intel knows where their bread is buttered and can only compete under 24 core HEDT which I think is where the majority of sales for HEDT are.

Only the w-2595x looks even remotely price/performance competetive with 64 PCIE 5.0 lanes instead of 48.
If you want to overclock either HEDT chip, power consumtion is not major concern but price/performanc is otherwise just get a pure gaming machine for half the price!!!

 

[thesmokingman]

Who would prefer PCI-E 5 over PCI-E 4 while having 26 cores instead of 64?

Hey, you can't ever go wrong going Intel? Right?

 

[lemans24]

Who would prefer PCI-E 5 over PCI-E 4 while having 26 cores instead of 64?

But how many will buy 64 core over 26??
If performance with no price limit then get the 64 core (even better 96 cores)

24-32 cores seems to be the price/performance sweetspot for HEDT systems but definitely still very expensive when you
consider motherboards and ecc memory...

 

[Patriot]

In what world does this compete with TR? Someone enlighten me.

I will admit to linking this to someone, and commenting, But where are the cores PAT!!!
And then I read and saw 26 cores and just started laughing.

 

[Dr. Dro]

The W3-2525 looks like a nice chip if they manage to get pricing similar to the i7-5820K/6800K of yore. I'd love to have one of those. Unfortunately, don't think that's bound to happen any time soon, after all, most people would rather just buy the consumer-grade halo parts instead. More glamor, I guess.

 

[TumbleGeorge]

the w-2595x can be closer in price to the 7965x then Intel maybe a good option as I definitely would prefer 64 PCIE 5.0 lanes over 48.

7965WX
Pros: 128 PCIe lanes not 48
8 Channel RAM.
Cons: -2C4T if this is cons.

 

[Tek-Check]

I definitely would prefer 64 PCIE 5.0 lanes over 48.

Which four Gen5 x16 devices you would be running on such motherboard?
One Asus AIC with four x4 Gen5 SSDs and what else?

Looks like Intel maybe waiting for Granite Rapids before they can have a full answer to threadripper.

Soon after Granite Rapids we will get Shimada Peak TR on Zen5 which users should be able to slot into current TRX50 motherboards.
Emerald Rapids is the end of the platform, no more upgrades.

 

[lemans24]

7965WX
Pros: 128 PCIe lanes not 48
8 Channel RAM.
Cons: -2C4T if this is cons.

you mean 7965WX PRO version which is a true workstation version.
But you are correct as I really mean 7960x which is the HEDT 4 channel version.

Which four Gen5 x16 devices you would be running on such motherboard?
One Asus AIC with four x4 Gen5 SSDs and what else?

Soon after Granite Rapids we will get Shimada Peak TR on Zen5 which users should be able to slot into current TRX50 motherboards.
Emerald Rapids is the end of the platform, no more upgrades.

1) single slot work station GPU (PCIE Gen4 x16 dp2.1 card - main video ~AMD Radeon Pro w7600)
2) Asus AIC with four x4 Gen5 SSDs (main - 4TB)
3) Asus AIC with four x4 Gen5/4 SSDs (backup - 4TB)
4) Geforce 4090 (PCIE Gen4 x16 card - definitely will upgrade to 5090 Gen5 x16)

I want 4 PCIE Gen5 slots with 16 lanes each which Asus Ace w790 board has for for heavy duty AI/trading application development
If I eventually get a development server as well, will definitely go for threadripper pro version at that point.

Threadripper 7960x looks pretty good though but will waut until they are on the market before i decide
which one to update to.

Either w-2595x or 7960x fully loaded will set me back near $10,000!!

 

[Tek-Check]

1) single slot work station GPU (PCIE Gen4 x16 dp2.1 card - main video ~AMD Radeon Pro w7600)
2) Asus AIC with four x4 Gen5 SSDs (main - 4TB)
3) Asus AIC with four x4 Gen5/4 SSDs (backup - 4TB)
4) Geforce 4090 (PCIE Gen4 x16 card - definitely will upgrade to 5090 Gen5 x16)

Right. So, you might need maximum three, if not two x16 Gen5 slots.
x16 Gen4 bandwidth for any kind of GPU will not be saturated for 4-5 years.
We have only reached x16 Gen3 saturation last year with 4090.
In x16 Gen3 slot it is 2% slower than in x16 Gen4 slot. Negligible.

 

[lemans24]

Right. So, you might need maximum three, if not two x16 Gen5 slots.
x16 Gen4 bandwidth for any kind of GPU will not be saturated for 4-5 years.
We have only reached x16 Gen3 saturation last year with 4090.
In x16 Gen3 slot it is 2% slower than in x16 Gen4 slot. Negligible.

Great answer!!
Since I am upgrading my dev workstation in 2024 sometime, having 64 Gen 5 HEDT lanes over 48 definitely feels worth getting even if I do not need the full Gen5 performance.
Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it!!

Another thing that i do not like is the current threadripper 7000 HEDT motherboards seem to only have 4 memory slots instead of 8.
I currently have 128GB of memory and would like to have 256GB on my next workstation.
Maybe next year I can get 4 ddr5 ecc stick kits for 256GB but I would rather get 4 sticks now and add 4 sticks later especially as I wil be overclocking too.

These are the 2 major advantages that I see for w-2595x over 7960x but the 7960x price looks very good so I am really looking forward to benchmark
reviews with cinebench R23 for both HEDT chips.

 

[unwind-protect]

Great answer!!
Since I am upgrading my dev workstation in 2024 sometime, having 64 Gen 5 HEDT lanes over 48 definitely feels worth getting even if I do not need the full Gen5 performance.
Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it!!

Another thing that i do not like is the current threadripper 7000 HEDT motherboards seem to only have 4 memory slots instead of 8.
I currently have 128GB of memory and would like to have 256GB on my next workstation.
Maybe next year I can get 4 ddr5 ecc stick kits for 256GB but I would rather get 4 sticks now and add 4 sticks later especially as I wil be overclocking too.

These are the 2 major advantages that I see for w-2595x over 7960x but the 7960x price looks very good so I am really looking forward to benchmark
reviews with cinebench R23 for both HEDT chips.

As mentioned on Anandtech the new Threadrippers are limited to one DIMM per channel. So the non-Pro can only take 4 DIMMs.

Disappointing.

 

[Wirko]

As mentioned on Anandtech the new Threadrippers are limited to one DIMM per channel. So the non-Pro can only take 4 DIMMs.

Disappointing.

Hopefully 32-gigabit DDR5 chips will soon enter mass production so at least 128 GB DIMM prices come down from the current high orbit.

 

[Tek-Check]

having 64 Gen 5 HEDT lanes over 48 definitely feels worth getting even if I do not need the full Gen5 performance. Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it!!

Hahaha! Better to have what you would actually use. Higher number in this case is not necessarily better.
Your future 5090, and then 6090, will never saturate the bandwidth of x16 Gen4 slot, let alone Gen5 slot. Rest assured it will not happen. PCIe Gen5 arrived to client and HEDT segment from server too soon. It has been largely a gimmick to feed our Ego.

Motheboards have had x16 Gen5 slot since Alder Lake in 2021. Two years later, nobody in the world is using the bandwidth capability of that slot. It's silly, isn't it? Even next year, when AMD and Nvidia release GPUs with PCIe Gen5 support, those GPUs will not saturate what Gen4 currently provides. It will take another 3-4 generations of GPUs to start using meaningfully what x16 Gen5 slot has to offer. By that time, you will have a new platform.

Another thing that i do not like is the current threadripper 7000 HEDT motherboards seem to only have 4 memory slots instead of 8.
I currently have 128GB of memory and would like to have 256GB on my next workstation.
Maybe next year I can get 4 ddr5 ecc stick kits for 256GB but I would rather get 4 sticks now and add 4 sticks later especially as I wil be overclocking too.

By having two DIMMs per channel, your RAM speed will drop below basic 4800 MT/s DDR5 speed. Something to have in mind about disadvantages of having two DIMMs per channel. There will be 64GB and 96GB memory sticks next year, as Samsung has developed 32Gbit RAM modules, so one DIMM per channel should be enough, plus its higher speeds.

So, 64 Gen5 lanes on Sapphire/Emerald Rapids is a total overkill driving away attention from what actually matters, which is CPU cores and performance. Zen4 TR is unrivaled here.

Even 48 Gen5 lanes on TRX50 is overkill for a few years to come, as the only device that could actually utilize this bandwidth are x16 Gen5 AIC with four Gen5 SSDs. Now, do you really need Gen5 SSDs? That's another question.

The most important question is whether you plan CPU upgrade. If so, Emerald Rapids is the end of the road. That would be one-off purchase for several years. TRX50 and WRX90 platform should receive Zen5 TR upgrade, a simple CPU swap and easy upgrade without buying completely new system.

 

[thestryker6]

I'm mostly curious if Intel is going to change pricing at all since the 7960X MSRP is $1500 and the 2495X is $2200. Intel's main advantage here is 2DPC (RDIMMs are extremely expensive as capacity rises) and the extra PCIe lanes, but that and 2 extra CPU cores don't fill the price gap in my opinion.