MSI Readies BIOS Update for 14th Generation Intel Core Processors to Enable APO

[TheinsanegamerN]

Yeah they're trying to pull some sh*t...

The problem with this tech is 1) it's for 2 games only, and needs to be added game by game, and 2) it's for an architecture that is going to be replaced in a matter of months, so how long will this last? maybe 2 years, maybe there's 20 games added.... tops. meh.

It does show the potential for better software optimizations, however.

There are so many optimizations left on the table, especially for windows software. The whole industry needs a snow leopard moment. The whole 14th gen is an embarrassment IMO, intel never should have released it.

 

[Toothless]

You realize it's quite uncommon to have a gen on gen difference - especially within a year -, bigger than the jump between the 12600k and the 13600k, right? I don't even remember if there was ever a time that we got such a huge increase within a year.

You completely skipped over the post right after yours and you didn't really read mine at all correctly.

I said anything before 12th, yes. Between 12th and 13th there is a chunk of difference. There also is the i5 to i7/i7 to i9/etc upgrade paths.

13th to 14th is Haswell to Devil's Canyon all over again. Specific workloads or games might be able to use that difference for those two and I was talking about 12th to 13th. There IS a jump between 12th to 14th when you said there wasn't.

10% can be a lot as seen in the TPU review. So which is it? The nice jump from 12th to 13th but not 12th to 14th? As for APO if that's the hill to die on then don't single out Intel for pulling this when others have done it enough.

 

[JustBenching]

I think you still dont get the point I and others are making. There is no technical barrier to doing it, its a business decision not a technical one.

I never argued otherwise.

And why do you think that, when the pentium III is a totally different arch?

This is the same mental gymnastics that is used to justify artificial product segmentation. Why should it not work with 13th gen chips, when they are THE SAME SILICON?

Why do I think that they should release it for older cpus as well? Because people are currently using older cpus, so it would be a nice boost for them too.

I don't know what you consider mental gymnastics, I'm just saying that I don't feel entitled to it. If they release it for my 12th gen, great, if they don't, doesn't matter, not like I had it before.

People feel like intel is taking away a feature - but they never had it in the first place. That's why it feels weird to me that people complain about this. Who cares?

 

[chrcoluk]

I never argued otherwise.


Why do I think that they should release it for older cpus as well? Because people are currently using older cpus, so it would be a nice boost for them too.

I don't know what you consider mental gymnastics, I'm just saying that I don't feel entitled to it. If they release it for my 12th gen, great, if they don't, doesn't matter, not like I had it before.

People feel like intel is taking away a feature - but they never had it in the first place. That's why it feels weird to me that people complain about this. Who cares?

This is likely related to the hybrid arch on the CPU's. The P3 is a very different chip.

I honestly cannot understand your thought process here.

 

[phanbuey]

I never argued otherwise.


Why do I think that they should release it for older cpus as well? Because people are currently using older cpus, so it would be a nice boost for them too.

I don't know what you consider mental gymnastics, I'm just saying that I don't feel entitled to it. If they release it for my 12th gen, great, if they don't, doesn't matter, not like I had it before.

People feel like intel is taking away a feature - but they never had it in the first place. That's why it feels weird to me that people complain about this. Who cares?

Simply that it shows a lack of loyalty to existing customers. It's the same type of business school shenanigans instead of advancing tech that lost them the lead.

Instead of advancing the entire brand and building customer retention, they're like "we can use this to cajole people into rebuying raptor lake!"

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

Why do I think that they should release it for older cpus as well? Because people are currently using older cpus, so it would be a nice boost for them too.

The argument was why APO was being limited to the 14th gen, when the 13th and 12th are the same arch. The pentium III is not the same arch, nor relevant. The pentium II is a red herring argument meant to distract from the original argument.

I don't know what you consider mental gymnastics, I'm just saying that I don't feel entitled to it. If they release it for my 12th gen, great, if they don't, doesn't matter, not like I had it before.

People feel like intel is taking away a feature - but they never had it in the first place. That's why it feels weird to me that people complain about this. Who cares?

Intel is releasing APO, but only for 14th gen CPUs. There is no technical reason to do this. The 14th and 13th gens are identical. This is entirely a greedy business decision meant to create artificial product segmentation, that is product segmentation that has no reason to exist. This is being done to entice people to buy the same chips again with a new name instead of providing a legitimate generational improvement. This is something the community does NOT like, because it is greedy AF. It is something that companies like nvidia, microsoft, intel, ece have done in the past, and it is greatly dislike. I'm not sure why you dont understand this argument. You can disagree with it, that's fine, but you dont even seem to understand what is being said.

 

[JustBenching]

Simply that it shows a lack of loyalty to existing customers. It's the same type of business school shenanigans instead of advancing tech that lost them the lead.

Instead of advancing the entire brand and building customer retention, they're like "we can use this to cajole people into rebuying raptor lake!"

That's exactly my point. So if they never realised APO at all, it wouldn't show lack of loyalty. That's basically what your argument leads to.

The argument was why APO was being limited to the 14th gen, when the 13th and 12th are the same arch. The pentium III is not the same arch, nor relevant. The pentium II is a red herring argument meant to distract from the original argument

12th gen isn't the same arch but it doesn't really matter.

Intel is releasing APO, but only for 14th gen CPUs. There is no technical reason to do this. The 14th and 13th gens are identical. This is entirely a greedy business decision meant to create artificial product segmentation, that is product segmentation that has no reason to exist. This is being done to entice people to buy the same chips again with a new name instead of providing a legitimate generational improvement. This is something the community does NOT like, because it is greedy AF. It is something that companies like nvidia, microsoft, intel, ece have done in the past, and it is greatly dislike. I'm not sure why you dont understand this argument. You can disagree with it, that's fine, but you dont even seem to understand what is being said.

Uh, I see, amd is absent there. Of course, makes sense

 

[dyonoctis]

Simply that it shows a lack of loyalty to existing customers. It's the same type of business school shenanigans instead of advancing tech that lost them the lead.

Instead of advancing the entire brand and building customer retention, they're like "we can use this to cajole people into rebuying raptor lake!"

Intel is releasing APO, but only for 14th gen CPUs. There is no technical reason to do this. The 14th and 13th gens are identical. This is entirely a greedy business decision meant to create artificial product segmentation, that is product segmentation that has no reason to exist. This is being done to entice people to buy the same chips again with a new name instead of providing a legitimate generational improvement. This is something the community does NOT like, because it is greedy AF. It is something that companies like nvidia, microsoft, intel, ece have done in the past, and it is greatly dislike. I'm not sure why you dont understand this argument. You can disagree with it, that's fine, but you dont even seem to understand what is being said.

I don't think that it's about rebuying RPL, that would be a very vain thing to do. It's more about enticing the people who really need an upgrade to choose 14th gen over the cheaper and otherwise remarkably close 13th gen.

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
I pretty much gave up on intel shenanigans lakes they just milk the market over and over again with marginal gains.

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

That's exactly my point. So if they never realised APO at all, it wouldn't show lack of loyalty. That's basically what your argument leads to.

>if they didnt do the thing, there wouldnt be a reaction from the thing, therefore your argument that the negative reaction to the thing occurred because the thing is bad is actually wrong

9001 IQ take right there. The original point is that APO shows a lack of loyalty to the customer because it ignores 13th gen owners. of COURSE, had APO not been released, this argument wouldnt exist. That doesnt make the argument wrong. You've created a strawman argument here.

12th gen isn't the same arch but it doesn't really matter.

12th to 13th gen doubled the cache. That's all. They're both alder lake. You could make the cache argument as them being different enough, but then what is the excuse for 13th gen chips not being supported?

Uh, I see, amd is absent there. Of course, makes sense

You are extrapolating based on what you want to see, not what is written. Conspiracy theories run amok and benefit nobody. (did you miss the ece on the end there?)

 

[JustBenching]

>if they didnt do the thing, there wouldnt be a reaction from the thing, therefore your argument that the negative reaction to the thing occurred because the thing is bad is actually wrong

9001 IQ take right there. The original point is that APO shows a lack of loyalty to the customer because it ignores 13th gen owners. of COURSE, had APO not been released, this argument wouldnt exist. That doesnt make the argument wrong. You've created a strawman argument here.

I'm the intel CEO. I announce APO is coming to 14th gen only. People (mostly the ones with amd cpus but let's ignore that) go amok about Intel's lack of loyalty to its customers. So as the CEO I decided to cancel the whole thing.

Now what?

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

I'm the intel CEO. I announce APO is coming to 14th gen only. People (mostly the ones with amd cpus but let's ignore that) go amok about Intel's lack of loyalty to its customers. So as the CEO I decided to cancel the whole thing.

Now what?

You're not the intel CEO. If you were, you'd get dunked on for not only being unable to support multiple CPU generations with APO, but also for tilting at windmills and acting like a total fool.

Back to the subject at hand, APO is artificial product segmentation, created by greedy business decisions. You can like it, that doesnt make it not an artificial product segmentation created by greedy business decisions, as there is no technical reason this could not worth with 13th or 12th gen chips.

 

[JustBenching]

You're not the intel CEO. If you were, you'd get dunked on for not only being unable to support multiple CPU generations with APO, but also for tilting at windmills and acting like a total fool.

Back to the subject at hand, APO is artificial product segmentation, created by greedy business decisions. You can like it, that doesnt make it not an artificial product segmentation created by greedy business decisions, as there is no technical reason this could not worth with 13th or 12th gen chips.

I never said that there is a technical reason. I'm saying, who cares. I mean, who cares besides people that don't have an Intel cpu? Nobody. It's a bonus - nice gift - if they release it for older cpus. I don't feel entitled to free bonuses. Why do you?

How many cpus can intels competitors support? 0. But intel is getting dunked for supporting more than 0. Makes sense.

 

[Vya Domus]

AMD user here so I'm not familiar with the tech. It looks like it's a replacement for the standard Windows scheduler to better distribute processes across the appropriate cores, is that right?

Unlikely given that this is simply a BIOS update.

That's insane, don't think it has happened before.

"don't think it has ever happened before"

5950X was almost 100% faster in MT than previous generation.

 

[JustBenching]

"don't think it has ever happened before"

View attachment 321408
5950X was almost 100% faster in MT than previous generation.

Uhm, what? No it wasnt, it was around 20% faster than the 3950x, lol.

 

[BetrayerX]

I hope somebody figures out how to make this work on the identical 13 series. But it must feel special to be an Intel customer. And all you 14 series fanbois will cry when your same as 13 gen CPU is all done in less than a year from now, and you'll need a "new" mobo again.

Must....resist...temptation.... must..... gahhh I give up!

 

[Vya Domus]

Uhm, what? No it wasnt, it was around 20% faster than the 3950x, lol.

Who said anything about 3950X ? 5950X was faster than anything Intel had by almost 2X in MT. Not only AMD was 100% faster in MT at the time but that previous 3950X also offered way more than 40% than previous 2000 series as well.

The point is you said 40% was "insane" lol, I don't know what's insane about that and who can possibly be impressed by it. I guess it's impressive by Intel standards and that's not a compliment.

 

[JustBenching]

Who said anything about 3950X ?

Me, you know, the guy you quoted. You quoted me talking about gen on gen improvements. So the 3950x is very relevant when you bring up the 5950x.

The point is you said 40% was "insane" lol, I don't know what's insane about that and who can possibly be impressed by it. I guess it's impressive by Intel standards and that's not a compliment.

Yeah, it's impressive by Intel standards, it's unobtainium by amd standards. Most they could muster in a year is 20%, and that on top of a price increase

 

[dyonoctis]

Yeah, it's impressive by Intel standards, it's unobtainium by amd standards. Most they could muster in a year is 20%, and that on top of a price increase

When you know that a big part of intel MT increase came from a core count increase that's disingenuous to say. A yearly 40% increase at equal core count didn't happen since we stopped increasing clock speed by at least 40% year over year. In the MHZ era you could have a 100% improvement in one year.

 

[JustBenching]

When you know that a big part of intel MT increase came from a core count increase that's disingenuous to say. A yearly 40% increase at equal core count didn't happen since we stopped increasing clock speed by at least 40% year over year. In the MHZ era you could have a 100% improvement in one year.

What difference does it make where the increase came from? If you care about MT performance cause you are running blender or what have you, why would you care if it's clockspeeds or cores that do the job?

 

[dyonoctis]

What difference does it make where the increase came from? If you care about MT performance cause you are running blender or what have you, why would you care if it's clockspeeds or cores that do the job?

Because AMD had the same type of increase coming from an increase in core count.

 

[1d10t]

It makes perfect sense, because architecture is completely different. Here there is a comparison between the current CPU and previous one

Difference is so massive you literally can see it clearly.

And that's just the icing on the cake, currently only 2019 Metro Exodus and 2015 Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Siege, in the future I believe they will support a whole lot game libraries such as Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor, Bioshock Infinite and Borderlands 2.

 

[sLowEnd]

The latest BIOS update for my Z690 Force gave me an issue where cold boots fail to start the first time, consistently. (Hangs at a black screen, a restart would get past that, but I didn't want to have to restart every time I wanted to turn on my computer) After some troubleshooting, I resolved the issue by deleting and remaking the Windows EFI partition on my boot drive. Not sure why it even had to come to that, but it took a hot minute of throwing stuff at the wall. I don't think I would've figured it out at all if my board didn't have an error code display on the board to give me a hint.

 

[JustBenching]

Because AMD had the same type of increase coming from an increase in core count.

But they haven't increased core counts for...what, 3 gens now? Id argue they decreased core counts with zen 3, since both their 6 and 8 core chips were 50% more expensive than previous gen.

 

[stimpy88]

But they haven't increased core counts for...what, 3 gens now? Id argue they decreased core counts with zen 3, since both their 6 and 8 core chips were 50% more expensive than previous gen.

You really have a thing for AMD, don't you...