Sony PlayStation 5 Pro Packs an Updated RDNA3 GPU with 60 CU

[Count von Schwalbe]

If nothing else then console lifecycles have shortened for sure and that means spending money more often. On the other hand - 10 years of X360 and PS3 was probably not great for game development...

But that is when companies had to actually complete games before they released, because the consoles didn't have the hardware chops to push through a half-finished game.

 

[AnotherReader]

When it came to gaming the NES & SNES generations of consoles pissed all over PCs of their time, which had no dedicated hardware for things such as sprites, multiple scrolling playfields, much greater color pallettes and SNES Mode 7 was something PCs of the time couldn't even dream of doing.

PlayStation 1 had 3D polygon generating capabilities that PCs wouldn't match until 1996.

The N64 would have had PCs beaten in terms of its 3D rendering feature set, if it hadn't been delayed by a year. Full Z buffer, no warping polygons, full scene mip mapping and anti aliasing.

XBOX had a 12mth headstart on PCs with programmable shaders.

PS2 Cell processor had capabilities that even today's modern CPUs struggle to match in certain game friendly areas.

Cell was in the PS3 and was notoriously hard to program. With AVX-512, high clocks, massive caches, and high bandwidth DRAM, modern CPUs are more than a match for Cell.

 

[Vayra86]

Cell was in the PS3 and was notoriously hard to program. With AVX-512, high clocks, massive caches, and high bandwidth DRAM, modern CPUs are more than a match for Cell.

Cell was a technical wet dream that never came to fruition. I mean, as a supposed Media Machine (HTPC marketing line) the PS3 wasn't great and Cell didn't really do much for it I guess it did run the PS3 GUI fantastically. And yes, you could do some pseudo background tasks while gaming, but god almighty was it slow.

 

[AnotherReader]

Cell was a technical wet dream that never came to fruition. I mean, as a supposed Media Machine (HTPC marketing line) the PS3 wasn't great and Cell didn't really do much for it I guess it did run the PS3 GUI fantastically. And yes, you could do some pseudo background tasks while gaming, but god almighty was it slow.

Cell wasn't up to much as a general purpose CPU, but it had excellent vector performance with its 8 SPEs. There was only one PPE which was an in order CPU similar to the first Atom; needless to say, it was terrible at typical CPU tasks.

 

[THU31]

Gotta release a new Pro console, so all those Unreal Engine 5 games can get bumped from 720p60 to 1080p60.

But maybe GTA VI will get native 4K30!

 

[The Quim Reaper]

Cell was in the PS3 and was notoriously hard to program. With AVX-512, high clocks, massive caches, and high bandwidth DRAM, modern CPUs are more than a match for Cell.

Yeah, sorry, I confused the PS3 Cell for the PS2 'Emotion Engine'...but the point still stands.

 

[Waldorf]

@THU31
so ppl are getting forced to buy stuff now? right..

 

[THU31]

@THU31
so ppl are getting forced to buy stuff now? right..

How is that relevant to what I said?

Last gen pretty much all games on PS4 ran at 1080p and people had 1080p TVs. Then 4K started becoming popular, so we got 4K consoles (PS4 Pro was almost always upscaling, but image quality was very good).

Now everyone has 4K TVs, but pretty much all current gen (not cross-gen) games upscale from 720p-1080p in performance mode, where image quality is between garbage and acceptable. It's almost impossible to even find a native 4K30 game.

Game development is very expensive now, so poor publishers, investors and shareholders can't afford to let devs optimize games. Instead it's easier to release a new console, which they wouldn't be able to sell if games were optimized, because this time there's no new spiel like 4K.

If you like capitalism and greed, it's fine, it's a free world. We're all entitled to our own opinions and values.

 

[Waldorf]

@THU31
thanks for assuming stuff i never said.

except your post had nothing to do with values.
or do you think every single PS buyer is only playing UE engine games?
right.
and all pc games are properly optimized, right?
yeah..

i buy stuff to play certain games, not at a certain res/fps, but thats just me.
and just because im not willing/able to buy something/everything, doesnt mean im souring it for others (that can).

besides that, greed is greed, not unique to capitalism.
and the fact is, most of this planet is based on capitalism, and it wont matter, if i like or dont like it.

 

[THU31]

@THU31
and all pc games are properly optimized, right?

Of course not, how else would they sell new hardware? But PC is a different issue, where many games not only release unoptimized, but completely broken and unplayable.

I buy stuff to play certain games too, but I expect them to look acceptable. To me running lower resolutions than PS4 is not acceptable. I don't find looking at a muddy image enjoyable.

A console used to be a long term investment. This time most people couldn't even buy a PS5 for almost two years because of scalping. I ended up buying one from a scalper myself last year, because I really wanted to play Forbidden West. So I paid a fortune, I played the game and I loved it, even though it had significant image quality issues that were resolved a few months after I completed it. If I had waited six months, I would've paid much less for the console and had an even better experience with the game.
But apart from all this, two years later there will be a better console available. I don't have to buy it, but I like to experience games in the best possible quality. I won't feel good playing a game on PS5 if I know there's a PS5 Pro out there. So I'll either have to get the Pro, or wait for the PS6.

Electronics is something I really don't mind spending money on, I get a lot of value from it. I just really don't like what game publishers/developers are doing. I feel they're treating us like idiots, who should be willing to pay full price for every new game, while they're exploiting every possible way of saving as much money as possible on development costs, which drastically impacts the quality of the product they're selling.

 

[95Viper]

Last warning.
Stay on topic.
Take your side arguing to PMs.

 

[Jism]

Was lost the moment it went x86. We all knew this, only marketing denies it, so the sheep eat it as a console. But its PC, it runs the same api's, the same games, has varying configs, and goes obsolete faster than consoles ever did because they get succeeded by better versions, with the inclusion of a constant push to 'upgrade' your hardware for a better experience. Except, you're replacing the whole system that way, you don't control backwards compatibility, and you pay for your internet connection.

Smart business eh
Everyone saying the console will replace the PC and PC gaming is gonna die obviously didn't get it. The console is becoming part of the PC ecosystem instead. Its the mainstream console that is dying. The leftovers are handhelds, mobiles, etc... and most of them run the same games regardless.

View attachment 325129

At console peaks there where 3 to 5 different platforms to code for or port games to.

By unifying it you make it alot of dev's so much more easier since everything is X86/X64 and not IBM Cell, X86 or Risc.

 

[Vayra86]

At console peaks there where 3 to 5 different platforms to code for or port games to.

By unifying it you make it alot of dev's so much more easier since everything is X86/X64 and not IBM Cell, X86 or Risc.

And there is no rhyme or reason to letting a console differentiate itself on the games any longer, because they simply cant - they work on the same codebase and api

 

[onemanhitsquad]

Consoles used to be packed with interesting bespoke hardware that would outperform a top end PC for a year or two after release.

Now they're just Small form factor PCs in a fancy case using slightly tweaked, cost reduced PC tech.

a console has never out performed my PC's that I had at the time a console came out...ever

 

[Waldorf]

@onemanhitsquad
except you didnt get it for 599$.
ignoring playing with 2-6 players.
how many at the same time, over split screen, on your pc? right.

just because i have a 3K rig, doesnt mean i cant enjoy DOA/Tekken/Wipeout/AceCombat...
by turning on tv and a console with a couple of game pads.

 

[THU31]

a console has never out performed my PC's that I had at the time a console came out...ever

What about the Xbox 360? It had 48 unified shaders, which did not show up on PC until a year later on NVIDIA cards (two years later on ATI). The CPU had 3 cores with SMT, and while I don't know how it compared to x86 in terms of IPC, that was impressive.
But it definitely took a while for that console to really show its power, early games were mostly PS2 ports.

PCs were not power hungry back then. It was not difficult to make a console more powerful than a PC. Now we have graphics cards that consume 300-450 W, while a console draws less than 250 W from the wall. A console just can't compete in terms of raw power.

Even the PS5 Pro will be behind what we already have on PC. It will be an impressive machine, but the only thing it'll do is fix the image quality issues base consoles have.
We've seen a big graphical leap this year with games focusing on ray tracing (at the cost of image quality), but in my opinion we've already reached the limit of these consoles. I don't believe we'll see any significant progress in the next four years (2028 is when next consoles are expected).
It's what happened on the previous generation. The difference between exclusive games from the start and the end of that generation is so small, not just graphically, but also in terms of game design.
Because of the x86 simplicity and familiarity, devs are squeezing out all they can right from the start. There's no hidden power to discover like there used to be with "real" consoles.

 

[Waldorf]

@THU31
yeah, would love to see those "faster than a console" stuff limited to 2-300w overall power use,
and see how much faster they will be then.

ppl always seem to forgot heat and power are the biggest limits to perf increase on consoles.

 

[friocasa]

Was lost the moment it went x86. We all knew this, only marketing denies it, so the sheep eat it as a console. But its PC, it runs the same api's, the same games, has varying configs, and goes obsolete faster than consoles ever did because they get succeeded by better versions, with the inclusion of a constant push to 'upgrade' your hardware for a better experience. Except, you're replacing the whole system that way, you don't control backwards compatibility, and you pay for your internet connection.

Smart business eh
Everyone saying the console will replace the PC and PC gaming is gonna die obviously didn't get it. The console is becoming part of the PC ecosystem instead. Its the mainstream console that is dying. The leftovers are handhelds, mobiles, etc... and most of them run the same games regardless.

View attachment 325129

Yep, pretty much, but many just can't understand this

And the argument of "it's cheaper" "GPUs are expensive" just makes no sense, console prices are lower because they manufacture a lot of a precise configuration and often are sold at a loss if R&D is included

Consoles are trojan horses, companies then sell you overpriced accessories, online services(not required on PC), and the only way to get games is in their own digital store

Some advantages of consoles were:
-easy to use on a dedicated device
-powerful custom hardware
-unusual ways of playing(see Wii, Time Crisis)

Now games don't innovate (because money, so they can sell it on multiple platforms using the same controller configuration), the hardware is the same as PC, and Steam Deck has all the advantages of being easy to use and a dedicated device but you can do ANYTHING with it, which includes playing your games from other stores, emulators, or even use it as a PC, with the only limiting factor being it's performance due being a handheld device

Both Sony and Microsoft knew consoles were pointless the previous generation, Microsoft now is focusing more on games/Gamepass and Sony is porting games to PC

 

[80-watt Hamster]

Yep, pretty much, but many just can't understand this

And the argument of "it's cheaper" "GPUs are expensive" just makes no sense, console prices are lower because they manufacture a lot of a precise configuration and often are sold at a loss if R&D is included

Consoles are trojan horses, companies then sell you overpriced accessories, online services(not required on PC), and the only way to get games is in their own digital store

Some advantages of consoles were:
-easy to use on a dedicated device
-powerful custom hardware
-unusual ways of playing(see Wii, Time Crisis)

Now games don't innovate (because money, so they can sell it on multiple platforms using the same controller configuration), the hardware is the same as PC, and Steam Deck has all the advantages of being easy to use and a dedicated device but you can do ANYTHING with it, which includes playing your games from other stores, emulators, or even use it as a PC, with the only limiting factor being it's performance due being a handheld device

Both Sony and Microsoft knew consoles were pointless the previous generation, Microsoft now is focusing more on games/Gamepass and Sony is porting games to PC

Consoles pointless? No. Lost many/most of their unique selling points? Yes. But they're only pointless if you're a PC person already.

 

[friocasa]

Consoles pointless? No. Lost many/most of their unique selling points? Yes. But they're only pointless if you're a PC person already.

A proprietary console that's just a worse PC is pointless, a console experience is not

Even if don't own anything, you can just buy the better option. A steam deck is a console experience but not crippled by the manufacturer, you can do what you want with your property, that includes buying games on other stores, or download for free if you want it(seems fair to me if you already bought it on other platform)

 

[80-watt Hamster]

A proprietary console that's just a worse PC is pointless, a console experience is not

Even if don't own anything, you can just buy the better option. A steam deck is a console experience but not crippled by the manufacturer, you can do what you want with your property, that includes buying games on other stores, or download for free if you want it(seems fair to me if you already bought it on other platform)

Ecosystem lock-in has been part and parcel with consoles forever. The fact that Playstation and Xbox are now X86-based doesn't change anything in any meaningful way. It's great that there are more open alternatives like the Steam Deck, and I'm glad you're excited about that, but not everyone's going to have your priorities and ethos.

 

[Vayra86]

Ecosystem lock-in has been part and parcel with consoles forever. The fact that Playstation and Xbox are now X86-based doesn't change anything in any meaningful way. It's great that there are more open alternatives like the Steam Deck, and I'm glad you're excited about that, but not everyone's going to have your priorities and ethos.

Of course it changes things, look at the low amount of true platform exclusives these days. Crossplay is a thing now. Indie devs develop not just for PC, but with console port in mind.

The ecosystem lock in is being downgraded, heavily. And it goes both ways - consoles have gained access to more PC-first titles, and vice versa.

Consoles pointless? No. Lost many/most of their unique selling points? Yes. But they're only pointless if you're a PC person already.

That's pretty accurate I think. Yeah, consoles are definitely the starting point for gaming.

 

[friocasa]

Ecosystem lock-in has been part and parcel with consoles forever. The fact that Playstation and Xbox are now X86-based doesn't change anything in any meaningful way. It's great that there are more open alternatives like the Steam Deck, and I'm glad you're excited about that, but not everyone's going to have your priorities and ethos.

Ecosystem lock-in was something consumers endured when PC was harder to use and many games were console-exclusive, designed to take full advantage of the consoles, which tried to innovate to overcome performance limitations. New consoles on the other hand are just capped PCs (The CPU architecture doesn't matter, the first Xbox was already X86)

Tell me, what are the reasons to keep the closed consoles? Anyway, my point is pretty easy, if Microsoft released an Xbox Series X with SteamOS, it would be great, like a Steam Deck but powerful as a gaming PC. The biggest issue with the consoles is their policies.

There must be something to compensate for what you lose when you go the console route, but as you said, consoles "Lost many/most of their unique selling points"

Of course it changes things, look at the low amount of true platform exclusives these days. Crossplay is a thing now. Indie devs develop not just for PC, but with console port in mind.

The ecosystem lock in is being downgraded, heavily. And it goes both ways - consoles have gained access to more PC-first titles, and vice versa.


That's pretty accurate I think. Yeah, consoles are definitely the starting point for gaming.

As a low-cost entry point, the consoles already have been replaced by smartphones and tablets, kids on many instances end up using apps like tiktok, bad free ripoff/assetflip games from the play store, or social games

 

[alawadhi3000]

Consoles pointless? No. Lost many/most of their unique selling points? Yes. But they're only pointless if you're a PC person already.

If they are pointless then why I play more on my PS5 than my 7950X/RTX 4090 PC?

 

[80-watt Hamster]

If they are pointless then why I play more on my PS5 than my 7950X/RTX 4090 PC?

Hey, no shade here, and "pointless" was chosen as a through-line from the prior post. Consoles still have value, but it's hard not to feel that PS and XB don't have quite the crystal clear advantages vs. the PC they used to.

Personal anecdote time. 'Round 2010, I'd determined that the PS3 was going to be the my last console. The only Sony exclusive that mattered to me was Gran Turismo, and I'd mostly lost interest. Anything else I cared about was either available on PC, or not compelling enough to spend $300+ on a device that would mostly collect dust. Then they announced Rock Band 4. So now there's a retired PS4 hanging out under my TV. Also, my wife and her fam got me a Switch and BotW for Xmas one year. Gotten a lot of mileage out of that thing, tbh.

Anyway, I still feel my 2010 logic was sound. I couldn't envision a scenario in which I didn't have a PC for other reasons, and the list of available games is enough to keep anyone busy for dozens of lifetimes.

Anyway^2, PS5 Pro. Probably gonna be pretty gud. *shrug*