Top AMD RDNA4 Part Could Offer RX 7900 XTX Performance at Half its Price and Lower Power

[kapone32]

Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. (AMD) Stock Major Holders - Yahoo Finance

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This was a News story in 2016. You can believe what you want. Watch the Level One video if you doubt me.

 

[Tek-Check]

So AMD's best card will be about the performance of a low-end RTX 5070 or 5060.

Class 70 cards are not "low-end". It's upper midrange segment.

AMD really are incompetent.

AMD is not incompetent. Their engineers are working on complex chiplet designs, which Nvidia does not even try in consumer space at the moment.
The move to chiplet design is not easy and it does not guarantee that the next generation dies would be always better in each segment.

No company is obliged to have a top product in each segment they operate in and in each generation. That is completely unreasonable expectation.
AMD is very successful in multiple CPU/APU segments, from desktop to server, in console gaming and they ship MI300 to clients and to build the biggest and most powerful supercomputer in the world - El Capitan. If they skip one top product in one segment, such as discrete GPUs, it's not a big deal. They continue to work on such product until it's ready. You need to acknowledge that there is a wide portfolio of products, and halo gamers is just one tiny little segment of the market.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Class 70 cards are not "low-end". It's upper midrange segment.

AMD is not incompetent. Their engineers are working on complex chiplet designs, which Nvidia does not even try in consumer space at the moment.
The move to chiplet design is not easy and it does not guarantee that the next generation dies would be always better in each segment.

No company is obliged to have a top product in each segment they operate in and in each generation. That is completely unreasonable expectation.
AMD is very successful in multiple CPU/APU segments, from desktop to server, in console gaming and they ship MI300 to clients and to build the biggest and most powerful supercomputer in the world - El Capitan. If they skip one top product in one segment, such as discrete GPUs, it's not a big deal. They continue to work on such product until it's ready. You need to acknowledge that there is a wide portfolio of products, and halo gamers is just one tiny little segment of the market.

I agree and in fact, I think that given their predicament, if they didn't compete at all in the high end and instead focused on making a really good, no compromise and no nonsense midranger, they'd hit it out of the park. Even I who have grown incredibly skeptical of AMD's direction as of late would really love to see that, and I would purchase a card for myself.

 

[Tek-Check]

But it does mean AMD does not go forward for another 2 or so years.

Is there anything you know as industry "insider" that we do not know? Do tell.

AMD will be 3 generations behind nGreedia, which puts immense pressure on AMD to claw back that vast perf gap.

3 generations? Do enlighten us with your math.

If AMD aren't careful, Intel will catch up and maybe overtake them, then AMD/Radeon is finished.

Intel can barely deal with their own issues. It looks like next gen mobile GPUs are cancelled, so it does not sound like happy times over there.

I agree and in fact, I think that given their predicament, if they didn't compete at all in the high end and instead focused on making a really good, no compromise and no nonsense midranger, they'd hit it out of the park. Even I who have grown incredibly skeptical of AMD's direction as of late would really love to see that, and I would purchase a card for myself.

Highly recommended. I bought 7900XTX from Sapphire Nitro+ range. Fantastic card for gaming on 4K/120Hz OLED TV. Cannot be more happy.
7800XT is very popular in midrange. 4070 Super also looks good. Everyone needs to look into their needs and wants.

If we had an effective MCM solution it could be 2x the performance of the XTX at US$800-1000

This design is probably delayed for another year, until they get it to work properly. They invested most brain power and money in designing MI300. Now that this is out of the way, there is more time and space to perfect top chiplet-based GPU for consumer market. It will take time.

AMD is several years behind with their RDNA architecture. They need something new and something soon in order to stay relevant.

I feel brain dead when I read such comments.

AMD offers worse performance per money as is. Look at the benchmarks. RTX 4090 is 71% faster than RX 7900 XTX for approximately 95% more money (1850 euros vs 950 euros). Given Nvidia's far superior brand recognition, AMD is the big underdog and loser here. Second tier manufacturer.

Even more brain dead after such cherry-picking.
4090 si literally 25% faster in 4K gaming and 100% more expensive. It has the worst possible cost per frame, making it the worst value card for gaming.
You will not be able to ride a gaming rodeo with 4090 narrative for gaming. Nonsense. This card at current price is valuable for creators, engineers, AI folks and graphic designers. Halo gamers are just a tiny little cathegory of market.

I predict Nvidia will drop the RTX 5060 parts and only sell 5070/5080/5090 parts in its next GPU series.

They will never do that if they want to keep mindshare. At the end of the day, majority of global DIY gamers own 3060 and similar cards.
The world is not that rich.

Sounds like a big disappointment if AMD is going to abandon at least trying to go head to head against Nvidia.

It doesn't, really. If a top product is not ready for prime time, it's simply not ready and people need to wait for it, or buy alternative products, if they can't wait.

Also, nothing is stopping AMD from making a larger GPU, slapping on more CUs

That is ever more expensive with smaller nodes. Do you want to pay $1,500-2000 for 4K card? I don't.

This is representative of the general public mindshare. "Nvidia = gaming, AMD = second place."

This is changing, little by little.
It's more like: "Nvidia = gaming, AMD = gaming too."

View attachment 332000

Brain dead comparison of tech websites desperate for clicks.
Those two cards are not comparable in thed first place, designed for two different market segments, one of which is very sensitive to small prices fluctuations. People buying 70 class cards usually don't mind paying $30-40 more, but low end often waits until card gets some discount.
Besides, there is no "storm" or "GPU hunger" for Super cards. I can see them everywhere and no online retailer has sold them out.

 

[Chrispy_]

There is also a good chance that AMD is betting on Nvidia abandoning the mid-range to budget discrete desktop GPU space. This would leave AMD (RDNA4) and Intel (Battlemage) to compete in the sub $500 price bracket.

Haven't they completely abandoned the budget market already? The midrange is hugely underwhelming with even the 4060Ti being crippled by a budget 128-bit bus, x8 PCIe lanes, and all the hallmarks of $150 GPUs from 15 years ago.

There's no replacement for the 5-year-old 16-series because you're going to pay for raytracing even if it's an unusable slideshow, damnit!
There was nothing lower than a 2060 at $300 (RTX 2050 Mobile is a super-lame 64-bit bus 30-series Ampere die that Nvidia were so ashamed of, the couldn't even call it a 30-series part).
The 3050 was expected at $200, would have been competitive at $175 but had an insulting and pointless MSRP of $250. Presumably it existed solely as the reason to upsell the 3060 instead.
4050 is AWOL, and the 4060 isn't really appealing with it's high price, lame 8GB VRAM, PCIe x8 limitations, and barely enough bandwidth for 2022 games, let alone 2024 games.

At least AMD have the 6400, 6500, 6600 - all still in production I believe, and whilst the 6400 is awful, the 6500XT has its place, the 6600-series is genuinely great for the money. The 7600-series is a disappointment solely because there were minimal IPC and clock gains moving to RDNA3. You might as well just buy the RDNA2 equivalent until stocks dry up....

 

[TechnoLadz]

Your source link is broken. And also - MLID said around the $550 mark; not $400 afaik

 

[Makaveli]

Not really for current 7900 XT(X) owners but for others maybe yeah.


As someone who just got a discount second hand 7900 XTX, how bad is it? Was curious on that front while I wait for it to ship.

(and yes I know I'm insane)

i've recorded and posted a few videos on youtube in AV1 and it seems to be fine for me.

 

[Punkenjoy]

This was a News story in 2016. You can believe what you want. Watch the Level One video if you doubt me.

Watch witch Level One Video? bring your proof. (but just to be clear, one tech dude on internet is going to lose to Financial reporting site that report factual data).

I think what people like you mess up is in AMD foundry business (now GlobalFoundries) was spin off in a Private company where stock aren't publicly traded and one of the big private investor was Abu Dhabi. They later sold most if not all of their stakes.


The reports that i sent to you is the real information, not made up information. AMD is a publicly traded company so it's quite easy to know who own it. That report is the truth. End of the story. You can debate all you want. But it's how public stock work. Ownership are reported and consultable. It would be different if AMD was a private corporation not traded in stock exchange. Then they could keep that information private and it would be impossible to know.

 

[kapone32]

Watch witch Level One Video? bring your proof. (but just to be clear, one tech dude on internet is going to lose to Financial reporting site that report factual data).

I think what people like you mess up is in AMD foundry business (now GlobalFoundries) was spin off in a Private company where stock aren't publicly traded and one of the big private investor was Abu Dhabi. They later sold most if not all of their stakes.


The reports that i sent to you is the real information, not made up information. AMD is a publicly traded company so it's quite easy to know who own it. That report is the truth. End of the story. You can debate all you want. But it's how public stock work. Ownership are reported and consultable. It would be different if AMD was a private corporation not traded in stock exchange. Then they could keep that information private and it would be impossible to know.

Does that report you posted tell you exactly who all of the owners are?

 

[remekra]

Does that report you posted tell you exactly who all of the owners are?

Vanguard and BlackRock own both Nvidia and AMD (largest part of them) so they would not like to either of them to flop.
Basically they own everything and we are just sheep on computer forum fighting which GPU is better

 

[sLowEnd]

Half its price? Haha, no way AMD would be so charitable.

 

[Makaveli]

Half its price? Haha, no way AMD would be so charitable.

Correct they are a public traded company with shareholders leaving money on the table is a no no.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Half its price? Haha, no way AMD would be so charitable.

This naïve, senseless view of AMD as a friendly, charitable small business which has the small people's best interests at heart has gotta go. I know it's a view a LOT of people share with intense passion, to the point one could argue it borders on zealotry, and it couldn't be further from the truth.

 

[Daven]

Haven't they completely abandoned the budget market already? The midrange is hugely underwhelming with even the 4060Ti being crippled by a budget 128-bit bus, x8 PCIe lanes, and all the hallmarks of $150 GPUs from 15 years ago.

There's no replacement for the 5-year-old 16-series because you're going to pay for raytracing even if it's an unusable slideshow, damnit!
There was nothing lower than a 2060 at $300 (RTX 2050 Mobile is a super-lame 64-bit bus 30-series Ampere die that Nvidia were so ashamed of, the couldn't even call it a 30-series part).
The 3050 was expected at $200, would have been competitive at $175 but had an insulting and pointless MSRP of $250. Presumably it existed solely as the reason to upsell the 3060 instead.
4050 is AWOL, and the 4060 isn't really appealing with it's high price, lame 8GB VRAM, PCIe x8 limitations, and barely enough bandwidth for 2022 games, let alone 2024 games.

At least AMD have the 6400, 6500, 6600 - all still in production I believe, and whilst the 6400 is awful, the 6500XT has its place, the 6600-series is genuinely great for the money. The 7600-series is a disappointment solely because there were minimal IPC and clock gains moving to RDNA3. You might as well just buy the RDNA2 equivalent until stocks dry up....

Well in that case, I guess I mean they will officially abandon the sub $500 with nothing priced below that point no matter how pointless. The 5070 might be the cheapest SKU next gen.

What’s really funny is that most people here don’t want to believe this story only because they want AMD to help keep nVidia prices low. They would never ever buy an AMD video card but don’t want to pay unconstrained nVidia prices. Its funny how products become overpriced when no one buys from the competition.

 

[R-T-B]

i've recorded and posted a few videos on youtube in AV1 and it seems to be fine for me.

My use case is actually live gamestreaming ala sunlight/moonlight (an OSS streaming app) so latency is going to matter a bit more for me, but I appreciate the feedback.

 

[theouto]

Not really for current 7900 XT(X) owners but for others maybe yeah.

I know it definitely would be one for me

 

[R-T-B]

I know it definitely would be one for me

Maybe, but for most equal performance & less power draw is really more a sidegrade.

 

[theouto]

AMD culture is the reason. You should watch Level One's visit to AMD. It reminded me of my first years working for a tech Company. Everyone talks about technology like it is NFL football and there is a relaxed atmosphere. Those holistic qualities are why I will always buy AMD. That is vs the back drop that Nvidia creates a frankenstien 4090 to try to avoid sanctions from the Country that allowed them to amass their position.

Guided visits will always portray whatever image the company wants to sell, it is not real, it's a farse.
It'd be like going to check the insides of manchester united via a guided tour. You'll be met by the first team laughing, ten hag kicking about and just a grand jolly time, then you leave and in the ride home discover that one of the stands in old trafford has fallen down due to built up rust.

Extreme (and not real) example of course, but one should mostly care for the product in such instances (and corporations defintely care for only the products). I don't think that AMD would've allowed anything to go wrong during the Level One visit. Much like (and this is an extreme example) when the press went to Qatar to discuss the working conditions of the migrant workers, they discovered what looked like very nice conditions and supposedly happy workers. We all know that is defintely not what went down.

 

[Bagerklestyne]

For keeping the competitiveness alive.
AMD is several years behind with their RDNA architecture. They need something new and something soon in order to stay relevant.



That's not exactly right. AMD offers worse performance per money as is. Look at the benchmarks.
RTX 4090 is 71% faster than RX 7900 XTX for approximately 95% more money (1850 euros vs 950 euros).
Given Nvidia's far superior brand recognition, AMD is the big underdog and loser here.
Second tier manufacturer.

I like your right in the cherry picked moment for 'relevance'

Chiplet design is new generationally speaking, as was the Ryzen 1000 series. Good step forward for AMD but not great at the time compared to their competitor, now a few generations along they're crushing it in the cpu side of the industry.

No reason to think they wont be able to do that with gpu's, and potentially with less iterations due to lessons learnt from Rzyen.

 

[Makaveli]

My use case is actually live gamestreaming ala sunlight/moonlight (an OSS streaming app) so latency is going to matter a bit more for me, but I appreciate the feedback.

I haven't tried live streaming yet so will have to test it also.

 

[kapone32]

Guided visits will always portray whatever image the company wants to sell, it is not real, it's a farse.
It'd be like going to check the insides of manchester united via a guided tour. You'll be met by the first team laughing, ten hag kicking about and just a grand jolly time, then you leave and in the ride home discover that one of the stands in old trafford has fallen down due to built up rust.

Extreme (and not real) example of course, but one should mostly care for the product in such instances (and corporations defintely care for only the products). I don't think that AMD would've allowed anything to go wrong during the Level One visit. Much like (and this is an extreme example) when the press went to Qatar to discuss the working conditions of the migrant workers, they discovered what looked like very nice conditions and supposedly happy workers. We all know that is defintely not what went down.

Ok let's look at culture. Has AMD stagnated now that it has reached parity with Intel? Does AMD respond to the market with no cost upgrades? Does AMD tell you to only buy their CPUs for their GPUs? Does AMD make you feel like your card is worthless when a new one launches. Does AMD make you get a new MB if all you want is the CPU? Did AMD give you the 6500XT that no review said it supports 120hz panels vs every card in the price range? Does AMD just sit on their laurels when it comes to software upgrades? The most telling question though. Did AMD create a new card to try to go against the very Government it is based in? Has Lisa Su told us anything that has not launched? Does AMD not listen to the community? I guess you are right though a video can be many things. The thing is of all the Youtubers I trust Wendell at Level 1 more than most.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Ok let's look at culture. Has AMD stagnated now that it has reached parity with Intel? Does AMD respond to the market with no cost upgrades? Does AMD tell you to only buy their CPUs for their GPUs? Does AMD make you feel like your card is worthless when a new one launches. Does AMD make you get a new MB if all you want is the CPU? Did AMD give you the 6500XT that no review said it supports 120hz panels vs every card in the price range? Does AMD just sit on their laurels when it comes to software upgrades? The most telling question though. Did AMD create a new card to try to go against the very Government it is based in? Has Lisa Su told us anything that has not launched? Does AMD not listen to the community? I guess you are right though a video can be many things. The thing is of all the Youtubers I trust Wendell at Level 1 more than most.

1. Arguably, yes. There have been no major breakthroughs in their CPUs since 3D V-Cache was introduced. All chips ever since have been incremental upgrades, and the next major leap since 2022's Zen 4 launch is pretty much the Zen 5 core scheduled for this year. In the meantime, Intel has developed a hybrid architecture processor with hardware-based thread scheduling, enhanced upon it, reheated it shamelessly with the "14th Gen" scam, and then moved onto a processor that unites those technologies with tile-based packaging and developed a neural co-processor for it, which is what you see in Meteor Lake.
2. Yes. They've discontinued less than 5 year old GPUs recently (such as the Radeon VII) and heavily prioritize features for latest-generation cards. Most of these features may eventually reach older cards, but they certainly were never a priority. Reminder that le ebil nGreedia still supports the GTX 900 series from 2014.
3. Yes, this has happened in the past with the X370 chipset, the elaborate lie surrounding BIOS ROM capacity, and the TRX40 chipset that was aborted mid-way and never received a Zen 3 Threadripper upgrade, leaving people with expensive workstations that never received a CPU upgrade and on a previous-generation architecture.
4. Yes, the 6500 XT launched in an unfortunate market situation and it commanded a relatively high price, and it was one of the most pathetic GPU launches in history (perhaps just not as bad as the GTX 1630). It also has several limitations that not even the 1630 has, such as the complete absence of a hardware encoder and a hard limit of two display outputs (hardware limitation, you will never see any Navi 24 design with more than two display outs).
5. AMD has historically released several China-specific SKUs and has openly licensed its processor IP to Chinese technology companies, going as far as investing itself in joint ventures in order to keep it "by the books" (see: Hygon Dhyana). Not exactly a clean sheet if you want to bring that conversation up.
6. No, AMD does not listen to the community.

 

[Tek-Check]

There are three problems with this theory. The first is that AMD doesn't need multiple GCDs to reach the high end market. RDNA3 is evidence of that, where they have one GCD and multiple cache dies.

True that, but they will need to move towards two or more GCDs at some point. The hint is in MI300 that already has 6 or 8 GCDs in different variants. AMD has perfected this design for server and AI market, so it's reasonable to expect that they would introduce it in consumer at some point. At the end of the day, alleged Navi 41 could have (had) more than one GCD, as revealed in MCM patent file. The bigger the single GCD chiplet, the more expensive product and the less yields.

The second is that it assumes AMD completely bungle their ability to have multiple GCDs on a single die for the second generation in a row. It's nonsense that the Radeon group doesn't have the resources, AMD have been pouring money into them. I'd assume after the first generation of failure they have a general idea of the bandwidth required for multiple GCDs. At the very least if they couldn't reach the required bandwidth number I'd expect them to further modularize their GPU, stack cache, ect. There are plenty of options for AMD to reach the high end while maintaining RDNA3's small die size and without the use of multiple GCDs.

They will go with single GCD until they can and until they are not happy with maturinty of GCD interconnect. It works well on MI300, but it might need more time and tweaks on consumer GPUs. Radeon group has reosurces, but we do not know how many design projects they are able to run concurrently, as this requires multiple teams and manpower. At some point, we will get multi-GCD for a halo SKU.

Most of all though economically it makes zero sense for AMD to stop at the mid-range. AMD can add or subtract chiplets from a design at a near linear cost. This is particularly pertinent because for Nvidia the cost increase is exponential at the high end due to fact that yield drastically decreases when you get to the size of a high end GPU. By extension this means AMD has a large cost advantage in the high end (not that it really needs it given Nvidia's margins have always been large on those high end cards). AMD might not compete with Nvidia's high end chip with a single GCD but at the very least I'd expect them to stack up as many chiplets to have a competitive high end product simply because that's what stands to make them the most money. There's really no reason for AMD to simply leave money on the table.

Agreed. They will certainly try to release whatever they can at specific time points.

 

[Chaitanya]

Not really for current 7900 XT(X) owners but for others maybe yeah.


As someone who just got a discount second hand 7900 XTX, how bad is it? Was curious on that front while I wait for it to ship.

(and yes I know I'm insane)

This is quite old not sure how much things have improved since publication. I remember reading rendering reviews on Techgage and it seems like AMD is quite far behind nVidia GPUs for quite a few of rendering tasks(while for photo encoding they are quite a bit better).

AMD's Radeon RX 7900 AV1 encoder is almost on par with Intel Arc and Nvidia's RTX 40 series

Streaming expert and YouTuber EposVox published a performance preview of AMD's new AV1 encoder, found in its RX 7000 series GPUs, and found the encoding quality to...

www.techspot.com

 

[Tek-Check]

It uses XCDs and has eight of them and they are all exposed as a single GPU.
Question is does it convert to consumer market and a GPU used for gaming, we'll see I guess.

It does, but it takes time to deploy and viable business strategy.
Also, it's CoWoS packaging that is also used to package MI300, way more profitable product. AMD competes with Nvidia and others for access to CoWoS volume production, which is currently limited at TSMC and very saturated by orders for AI chips. TSMC will double CoWoS capacity this year for AI chips, so consumer GPU products will never get as much access to it.

This is quite old not sure how much things have improved since publication. I remember reading rendering reviews on Techgage and it seems like AMD is quite far behind nVidia GPUs for quite a few of rendering tasks(while for photo encoding they are quite a bit better).