AMD Debuts Ryzen 7 8700F & Ryzen 5 8400F SKUs at Beijing AI PC Summit

[T0@st]

AMD's Beijing AI PC Innovation Summit served as introduction point for a Chinese market launch of "Hawk Point" Ryzen 8040 mobile series and 8000G desktop processors—news coverage has, so far, focused on that rollout as well as a teasing of next-gen "Strix Point" processors. HXL/9550pro has put a spotlight on an easy-to-miss presentation slide—their social media post revealed the existence of new budget-friendly Ryzen 8000F CPUs. Team Red seems to be preparing two China-exclusive SKUs: Ryzen 7 8700F and Ryzen 5 8400F—not many details were revealed on-stage, so reporters have played a guessing game with speculated technical information. Industry experts believe that the 8700F is an iGPU-less version of AMD's "Hawk Point" Ryzen 7 8700G APU—utilizing the same 8 core and 16 thread configuration, but missing the Radeon 780M integrated graphics solution.

The lower-end SKU is a more perplexing product, since AMD did not elaborate much during "budget" product unveilings—VideoCardz put its thinking hat on for this one: "meanwhile, the 8400F might be harder to guess, as the name sits between 8500G and 8300G, both featuring vastly different configurations. An educated guess would be 6 cores and 12 threads, possibly with two Zen 4 and four Zen 4c cores." The "F" model suffix gained attention last year—courtesy of Team Red's Ryzen 5 7500F CPU. This iGPU-less "Raphael" Zen 4 SKU was initially released as a Chinese market exclusive, but eventually headed West as an option for system integrators.



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[dj-electric]

Sub 300 dollar AM5 CPU offerings are solid, but this can't be said loud enough:

Let. People. In. Give people affordability, give people selection. The entry bar is too high and there are too few options - lower. It. Down.

 

[kapone32]

Sub 300 dollar AM5 CPU offerings are solid, but this can't be said loud enough:

View attachment 340176
Let. People. In. Give people affordability, give people selection. The entry bar is too high - lower. It. Down.

A620 boards are $100 where I live. If you are using one of these using a X670 board would defeat the purpose.

 

[dj-electric]

A620 boards are $100 where I live. If you are using one of these using a X670 board would defeat the purpose.

In the US, there are very few solid sub 120 dollar options, and in most of the EU the situation is absolutely grim, with lots of out-of-stock and otherwise not-too-great 125-140 euro options. This situation pales in comparison to Intel B760 offerings and this puts AM5 based builds in a relative disadvantage, and that is if we disregard Intel's DDR4 based options.

I would really want to see AM5 in a better place for entry level soon.

 

[damric]

F

 

[LabRat 891]

A620 boards are $100 where I live. If you are using one of these using a X670 board would defeat the purpose.

In the US, there are very few solid sub 120 dollar options, and in most of the EU the situation is absolutely grim, with lots of out-of-stock and otherwise not-too-great 125-140 euro options. This situation pales in comparison to Intel B760 offerings and this puts AM5 based builds in a relative disadvantage, and that is if we disregard Intel's DDR4 based options.

I would really want to see AM5 in a better place for entry level soon.

B650 is the real 'entry level' IMO. A620 sacrifices too many features.
Another issue w/ AM5 boards is lacking expansion.

I 'get' that most people just need M.2 and a single x16 slot but, this is an unwelcome change for those of us that utilize PCIe's forwards and backwards compatibility for expansion
(Sound Cards, Capture Cards, USB 3+ cards, >GBe NICs, etc.)

 

[kapone32]

B650 is the real 'entry level' IMO. A620 sacrifices too many features.
Another issue w/ AM5 boards is lacking expansion.

I 'get' that most people just need M.2 and a single x16 slot but, this is an unwelcome change for those of us that utilize PCIe's forwards and backwards compatibility for expansion
(Sound Cards, Capture Cards, USB 3+ cards, >GBe NICs, etc.)

Wait, when you install a M2 that is 5.0 in the main slot it does not go to x8 for the main PCIe slot like on Z790. I agree though that all boards below the top tier boards are priced exactly that for expansion. There are some B650 boards in the $200 range that are not bad. If you want the expansion though you are almost guaranteed using the least expensive X670 boards, though Gigabyte seem to think that we only need one slot and could use more M2 storage.

In the US, there are very few solid sub 120 dollar options, and in most of the EU the situation is absolutely grim, with lots of out-of-stock and otherwise not-too-great 125-140 euro options. This situation pales in comparison to Intel B760 offerings and this puts AM5 based builds in a relative disadvantage, and that is if we disregard Intel's DDR4 based options.

I would really want to see AM5 in a better place for entry level soon.

You are also paying for longevity when you buy an AM5 board. Any of the upcoming CPUs should work with just a BIOS update. If there are huge gains in the next generation of AM5 CPUs that could become a moot point if you know that all you have to do is buy the chip.

 

[SL2]

A620 sacrifices too many features.

Yeah that's what makes it entry level lol

 

[LabRat 891]

Wait, when you install a M2 that is 5.0 in the main slot it does not go to x8 for the main PCIe slot like on Z790.

PCIe Gen5 is optional on B650, and IIRC most non-E mobos had Gen5 *only* for the CPU-connected M.2 (shortest traces, no repeater needed?)

Beyond that, to my knowledge, there is no 'lane sharing' (not sure about the Ryzen 8000G series).

NtM, all of the currently-offered chipsets are limited to an 4.0x4 lane interface to the CPU.
IMO, another big reason for AM5 being entirely unattractive for X570 on AM4 owners; it offers little in platform upgrade(s)

I agree though that all boards below the top tier boards are priced exactly that for expansion. There are some B650 boards in the $200 range that are not bad. If you want the expansion though you are almost guaranteed using the least expensive X670 boards, though Gigabyte seem to think that we only need one slot and could use more M2 storage.


You are also paying for longevity when you buy an AM5 board. Any of the upcoming CPUs should work with just a BIOS update. If there are huge gains in the next generation of AM5 CPUs that could become a moot point if you know that all you have to do is buy the chip.

Not wrong, at all. Personally though, AM5 offered very little over just upgrading to an AM4 X3D on X570 (effectively, a duplicate full-fat Zen3 IOD connected over PCIe4.0x4)
Maybe, my feelings will change w/ whatever next-gen chipset AMD-ASM releases...

Yeah that's what makes it entry level lol

It's more like Exit-in-Rear level.
A B550 board is much more featureful (overall), comparable in I/O capabilities, and offers a much lower platform cost.
(with likelihood of some overlap w/ whatever you're upgrading from)
100%, I 'see' why AMD decided to release 5700X3D, etc. The immediate value proposition is fantastic v. AM5.
An AM4 X3D + B550 gets you ~7600X performance at a much lower price point. The 'truncated' upgrade path is undeniable, though...

 

[dj-electric]

Wait, when you install a M2 that is 5.0 in the main slot it does not go to x8 for the main PCIe slot like on Z790. I agree though that all boards below the top tier boards are priced exactly that for expansion. There are some B650 boards in the $200 range that are not bad. If you want the expansion though you are almost guaranteed using the least expensive X670 boards, though Gigabyte seem to think that we only need one slot and could use more M2 storage.


You are also paying for longevity when you buy an AM5 board. Any of the upcoming CPUs should work with just a BIOS update. If there are huge gains in the next generation of AM5 CPUs that could become a moot point if you know that all you have to do is buy the chip.

These things are understandable, but coming from the retail trenches where people often count every cent, I can tell you AM5 loses more than it should ever had to LGA1700 when it comes to complete builds on the merit of saving a few dozen dollars.

 

[kapone32]

PCIe Gen5 is optional on B650, and IIRC most non-E mobos had Gen5 *only* for the CPU-connected M.2 (shortest traces, no repeater needed?)

Beyond that, to my knowledge, there is no 'lane sharing' (not sure about the Ryzen 8000G series).
View attachment 340178
NtM, all of the currently-offered chipsets are limited to an 4.0x4 lane interface to the CPU.
IMO, another big reason for AM5 being entirely unattractive for X570 on AM4 owners; it offers little in platform upgrade(s)

View attachment 340179View attachment 340180

Not wrong, at all. Personally though, AM5 offered very little over just upgrading to an AM4 X3D on X570 (effectively, a duplicate full-fat Zen3 IOD connected over PCIe4.0x4)
Maybe, my feelings will change w/ whatever next-gen chipset AMD-ASM releases...


It's more like Exit-in-Rear level.
A B550 board is much more featureful (overall), comparable in I/O capabilities, and offers a much lower platform cost.
(with likelihood of some overlap w/ whatever you're upgrading from)
100%, I 'see' why AMD decided to release 5700X3D, etc. The immediate value proposition is fantastic v. AM5.
An AM4 X3D + B550 gets you ~7600X performance at a much lower price point. The 'truncated' upgrade path is undeniable, though...

I upgraded from AM4 using a X570 with 5800X3D. I went with the 7900X3D and X670E E Strix The reason I upgraded was that I was using a 5900X before the 5800X3D and missed the smooth feeling that the 5900X had. Using a 7900XT, I noticed that the CPU was feeding the GPU 3-5 more GB/s in most Games. I then replaced my Seagate 530 with a MP700 and have had no regrets in going to AM5. In fact I bought a 2TB MP700 for the most important Games. My AM4 board is mining right now so it still is in use (MSI X570S Ace Max). I just posted in the Storage thread my board has 10 drives in it and I am happy.

As example to the diagram my board has support for 4 5.0 M2 drive support. In support of your argument on AM4 my storage was maxed so I needed a AM5 board that supported at least my RAID arrays. Where AM4 boards were a max $500 where I live AM5 max is now $1000. Is that on AMD or the board makers though. I remember when a good board was $200. That was also a time though where a GPU that could beat the best console for $399.

These things are understandable, but coming from the retail trenches where people often count every cent, I can tell you AM5 loses more than it should ever had to LGA1700 when it comes to complete builds on the merit of saving a few dozen dollars.

Of course the cost is prohibitive of most things in this space. There is nothing wrong with what you have suggested either. I was using my own tangent to apply my opinion and that is not the same as everyone else. The cheapest thing was storage in 2023 but that has been gentrified (again) too.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

Sub 300 dollar AM5 CPU offerings are solid, but this can't be said loud enough:

View attachment 340176
Let. People. In. Give people affordability, give people selection. The entry bar is too high and there are too few options - lower. It. Down.

-IMO It's AM4's ridiculous (in a good way) compatibility matrix coming back to bite AMD/consumers in the ass.

Imagine you make a $50 AM4 motherboard for an 1600x user and then that customer keeps that board for 8 years thanks to being able to drop a 5800x3d in there. You, the board maker, really screwed yourself out of future sales, you could have had maybe two more $50 board sales in there but instead you only got one.

So now AMD releases AM5 and says we plan to have future compatibility. What do you do as a board maker? You build in the price of all that future compatibility into your first gen boards, cause while you know an Intel user will be back in 2-3 years to buy another $50 board from you, who knows when the hell that AMD user is going to buy another board with all the promised compatibility so you better charge him $100 or $150 now.

That's my take on the pricing situation anyhow.

 

[EatingDirt]

These things are understandable, but coming from the retail trenches where people often count every cent, I can tell you AM5 loses more than it should ever had to LGA1700 when it comes to complete builds on the merit of saving a few dozen dollars.

The cheapest AM5 board on Pcpartspicker right now is $75, second is $80, with a few at $100. The cheapest LGA1700 is $70, and there's only 1, the rest are $90-100, but yes, there are more options.

AM5 loses out on cost because bargain basement 2x8GB DDR4($30) is cheaper than bargain basement 2x8GB DDR5($50), otherwise platform costs are essentially the same.

Nothing AMD can do about people trying to save $20 choosing DDR4 over DDR5 right now.

 

[ARF]

The cheapest AM4 board is 50$ and it still is more stable because the AM4 CPUs are not requiring 170+ watt...
The cheapest AM5 board is 80$ and I will recommend that you avoid it if you don't want fireworks in your PC case..

 

[EatingDirt]

The cheapest AM4 board is 50$ and it still is more stable because the AM4 CPUs are not requiring 170+ watt...
The cheapest AM5 board is 80$ and I will recommend that you avoid it if you don't want fireworks in your PC case..

Old AMD platform costing less than the new AMD platform isn't a surprise(Also, cheapest AM4 board is $60, not $50). The cheapest AM4 boards also aren't always enough for some CPU's(and this is just B550).

If you're buying the absolute cheapest motherboard for a platform, you're probably not buying the most expensive CPU for the platform. A 7800X3D might be able to push the cheapest AM5 motherboard to its limit, the 7600(x) will not. Same rule applies for both AMD platforms, and even more to Intel platforms(Imagine the 14900ks on this $70 board).

 

[ARF]

Old AMD platform costing less than the new AMD platform

This is not because "old vs. new". It is because AM5 goes with a higher cost to be made, and its minimum layout goes with more expensive components.
AM4 can go with PCIe 3.0, while this goes with PCIe 4.0. The AM5 needs more power phases because the cheapest board on paper supports the Ryzen 9 7950X. A question is with what quality and wouldn't that CPU throttle most of the time...

 

[Vayra86]

You are also paying for longevity when you buy an AM5 board. Any of the upcoming CPUs should work with just a BIOS update. If there are huge gains in the next generation of AM5 CPUs that could become a moot point if you know that all you have to do is buy the chip.

That's just not how it works, as history proves. People in general and especially companies building PCs don't remotely care about it.

A tiny part of the DIY market cares. That's about it. But any company just looking to release a product with an AMD CPU just wants to offer maximum product at minimum price. And its not a good show if those AMD CPUs end up in underpowered boards, especially in the higher end on prebuilt systems is it... AMD really makes a strategic mistake here. I also remember a history of meh board VRMs trying to juice hungry CPUs. Its not pretty and AMD should control this shit.

-IMO It's AM4's ridiculous (in a good way) compatibility matrix coming back to bite AMD/consumers in the ass.

Imagine you make a $50 AM4 motherboard for an 1600x user and then that customer keeps that board for 8 years thanks to being able to drop a 5800x3d in there. You, the board maker, really screwed yourself out of future sales, you could have had maybe two more $50 board sales in there but instead you only got one.

So now AMD releases AM5 and says we plan to have future compatibility. What do you do as a board maker? You build in the price of all that future compatibility into your first gen boards, cause while you know an Intel user will be back in 2-3 years to buy another $50 board from you, who knows when the hell that AMD user is going to buy another board with all the promised compatibility so you better charge him $100 or $150 now.

That's my take on the pricing situation anyhow.

Exactly. And then you've paid, as a customer, for a perk you might not even ever use.

I just can't think of a way this better compatibility benefits AMD. Or has, ever. And for myself... I wouldn't care either. Even if CPUs advance fast, at the end of the day you're going to run into another bottleneck, like, say, RAM, because the world's moved to DDR5. I've never really considered upgrading CPUs in the same board. In my mind, board/CPU is a combo that's the basis of a system. If I want a new CPU, I'll buy a recent board to go with it. CPUs last long enough. Can even just sell off the old combo as a combo that can be the core of a new system.

 

[masih]

The 8400f is interesting. Only 4X lanes for GPU and no APU! Worth nothing

 

[kapone32]

That's just not how it works, as history proves. People in general and especially companies building PCs don't remotely care about it.

A tiny part of the DIY market cares. That's about it. But any company just looking to release a product with an AMD CPU just wants to offer maximum product at minimum price. And its not a good show if those AMD CPUs end up in underpowered boards, especially in the higher end on prebuilt systems is it... AMD really makes a strategic mistake here. I also remember a history of meh board VRMs trying to juice hungry CPUs. Its not pretty and AMD should control this shit.

If you notice every year since 2017 AMD has released CPUs for AM4. Now we are getting XT parts and that is part of the reality of AM4. I know there are still plenty of users with AM4 and I would also argue that this is the 2nd run of AMD longevity while being in the dominant position. X370 boards were feature rich but 3.0 X470 boards were more flexible and less at the same time, X570 regressed and X570S is the cat's meow for AM4. Unless X770E comes with PCIe 6 it won't make sense to most users. There is also cost that is a factor. With how expensive they are I don't see people who have X670E boards getting anything other than the CPU when the next Gen launches. The top Asus board on AM5 is like $1000. The same board on AM4 was like $399. The board I bought (X670E E) was also more than any X399 board I personally bought. All AM5 boards are good enough to run most CPUs and there are plenty of 65 Watt parts like the 7900. I do not see AMD changing that, with the amount of AM4 CPUs they are releasing and the amount of APUs that they are selling, I expect AM5 to be very successful and when the next boards launch you might be able to get a B650E board on the cheap with BIOS flashback. Update the BIOS and you are good to go for around $200.

 

[SL2]

If you notice every year since 2017 AMD has released CPUs for AM4.

2016.
Not that anyone cares, and pretty much no one did that year, the CPU's were OLD tech.