Intel's Panther Lake CPU Generation on Track for Mid-2025 Release, AI Capabilities to See Significant Boost

[Tek-Check]

If the only thing Pat can sing about is useless "AI" capabilities, Panther Lake is going to be another failure.

Indeed. The article alone mentioned "AI" 8 times in a few sentences, which begs the question whther tech journalists have also been trapped into pushing this narrative, as if there is nothing more important to say about upcoming CPUs.

will grow AI performance up to an additional 2x.
Now everything has to mention AI... let's talk about performance again, please.
Less AI, more IPC and perf/watt.

There's no performance talk, there's AI, more of AI, and even more of AI

Intel is big enough to do more than just NPUs and GPUs. NPUs, in particular, are relatively simple compared even to GPUs, never mind CPUs.

They have outsourced to TSMC production of almost all components for client products.
They are big enough to produce in their own fabs, right?

I know it's hard to believe we've been hearing about AI for this long.

Exactly. By now, all our home machines should be running hundreds of AI workloads on a daily basis.

The big core count CPUs are never really going to be efficient at gaming. The 7950x sucks as well when it comes to efficiency.

You are right about vanilla Zen4, but big core count can be very efficient in gaming. You just need the right CPU for the task. 7950X3D is more efficient in gaming and miles faster than 13400.

 

[Onyx Turbine]

You are right about vanilla Zen4, but big core count can be very efficient in gaming. You just need the right CPU for the task. 7950X3D is more efficient in gaming and miles faster than 13400.

Quite logically not, considering the price delta

 

[Tek-Check]

I'll wait till I get the 5090 before I build my next desktop.
Not sure if I'll have a 15900k or "16900k" but it'll be just in time for Grand Theft Auto 6.

Just make sure that those high-end components do not run and choke in one of those Aurora cases.

Quite logically not, considering the price delta

The original point from the member was not about price.

 

[Onyx Turbine]

Just make sure that those high-end components do not run and choke in one of those Aurora cases.

have to update my profile, tried and send back the latest dell aurora. The biggest most annoying problem it had that sticked was its airflow design as such designed
that the back fan keeps running 100% no matter what and has a kind of annoying noise to it. I hope dell can make the case more sleek in different colours, like fractal white and wood, black and wood and silver, grey etc. Maybe swapping the back fan for a larger diameter one

Just make sure that those high-end components do not run and choke in one of those Aurora cases.


The original point from the member was not about price.

That is not a reasonable comparisson you cant compare a fiat with a ferarri

 

[Tek-Check]

have to update my profile, tried and send back the latest dell aurora. The biggest most annoying problem it had that sticked was its airflow design as such designed
that the back fan keeps running 100% no matter what and has a kind of annoying noise to it. I hope dell can make the case more sleek in different colours, like fractal white and wood, black and wood and silver, grey etc. Maybe swapping the back fan for a larger diameter one

Good that you returned it. Gamers Nexus reviewed several Aurora cases, with damning verdicts... It's a junk case that chokes other components.
Had Dell invested some real money to design a proper, good quality case, reviews would have been much better.

That is not a reasonable comparisson you cant compare a fiat with a ferarri

The member talked about gaming efficiency on big core count CPU and mentioned vanilla 7950X as evidence against efficiency. I agreed with it for vanilla CPUs and replied that 7950X3D also exist, invalidating their point. So, you need to ask the member why they made that assumption in the first place by using 7950X, another 'ferarri', against 13400, a 'fiat'. Price talk is another topic.

 

[pressing on]

They have outsourced to TSMC production of almost all components for client products.
They are big enough to produce in their own fabs, right?

Intel CPUs are now produced by Intel Products which is a Fabless division of a company that owns a Fab business. So IP is free to pick the 'best' node for each tile - it is not restricted to what the Foundry has on offer. So with Panther Lake, which is what we are talking about here, probably TSMC 3nm process (N3E) for all tiles except for the Compute Tile. It is reported that TSMC has orders from Intel Products worth nearly $4 billion in 2024 and $10 billion in 2025 that would fit in with that.

 

[KaitouX]

It's not like Intel big CPUs can't be efficient. It's just that no one tests the Low TDP variants, and people ignore that you can just change the power limit on the BIOS on the high power ones.

 

[Tek-Check]

Intel CPUs are now produced by Intel Products which is a Fabless division of a company that owns a Fab business. So IP is free to pick the 'best' node for each tile - it is not restricted to what the Foundry has on offer. So with Panther Lake, which is what we are talking about here, probably TSMC 3nm process (N3E) for all tiles except for the Compute Tile. It is reported that TSMC has orders from Intel Products worth nearly $4 billion in 2024 and $10 billion in 2025 that would fit in with that.

I am aware of these developments. You do not need to explain it to me, but to the member who made the original comment.

 

[Zubasa]

It's not like Intel big CPUs can't be efficient. It's just that no one tests the Low TDP variants, and people ignore that you can just change the power limit on the BIOS on the high power ones.

Good luck going into the bios and changes it everytime you game. At 35W/65W you might as well get a MiniPC that will runs circles around Raptor Lake at those PL.
Also do the same an AMD CPU and it will be more efficient still. Keep bending over backwards for Intel.

 

[Onyx Turbine]

Good luck going into the bios and changes it everytime you game. At 35W/65W you might as well get a MiniPC that will runs circles around Raptor Lake at those PL.
Also do the same an AMD CPU and it will be more efficient still. Keep bending over backwards for Intel.

Upcoming low to mid range cpus need an idle power consumption below 5 watts, gpu below 10 watts and everything is ok, intel and nvidia and amd (in gpu) showed this is possible..

 

[Zubasa]

Upcoming low to mid range cpus need an idle power consumption below 5 watts, gpu below 10 watts and everything is ok, intel and nvidia and amd (in gpu) showed this is possible..

I assume you mean Laptops. Because on Desktops the IO portion by itself can easily pull more than 5W idle.
Also most Desktop motherboards have a lot of the power management features disabled by default.
So most of the time they are sitting at a couple dozen Watts idle if not more.

 

[Onyx Turbine]

I assume you mean Laptops. Because on Desktops the IO portion by itself can easily pull more than 5W idle.
Also most Desktop motherboards have a lot of the power management features disabled by default.
So most of the time they are sitting at a couple dozen Watts idle if not more.

i had in the aurora the 13700f and it on average hovered around 5 to 10 watts, so imagine how low idle the lower branch of the cpus are

 

[Tek-Check]

It's not like Intel big CPUs can't be efficient. It's just that no one tests the Low TDP variants, and people ignore that you can just change the power limit on the BIOS on the high power ones.

This is corrent, but who buys 14900K to use it as 35W or 65W CPU that is efficient in gaming? I will tell you who. No one. On average, 14900K uses whapping ~150W in gaming. It's a gaming monstrocity.

Also, give us a graph from that same article showing what happens to framerates at 35W and 65W. You get more efficient CPU in gaming, of course, but you lose so much performance, which makes entire 'efficiency' business nonsense.

At 35W, 14900K becomes 10400F or 3700X in gaming performance and 89% slower than 7800X3D in 720p testing
At 65W, 14900K becomes 5800X3D or 7600 in gaming performance and 25% slower than 7800X3D in 720p testing, and it is still less efficient

Intel Core i9-14900K Raptor Lake Tested at Power Limits Down to 35 W

There's no denying that Intel's Core i9-14900K is a power hog. This article examines the power, performance and thermals effects of limiting its power consumption, with very interesting results. Additionally, we investigate undervolting to determine if efficiency can be optimized even further.

www.techpowerup.com

Would you change power limit in BIOS and run 14900K efficiently in gaming at 65W?

 

[Zubasa]

i had in the aurora the 13700f and it on average hovered around 5 to 10 watts, so imagine how low idle the lower branch of the cpus are

I read the actual power draw at the VRM output. The package power of Intel Desktop CPUs are not very accurate at idle.
I make sure the voltage / Loadline sent the VRM is the ball park of the CPU VID as well.
My CPU pulls around 25~30W idle when the package power says 10W.
At load they match much better, with the VRM output power slightly higher than the report package power accounting for power plain lost.

 

[Onyx Turbine]

I read the actual power draw at the VRM output. The package power of Intel Desktop CPUs are not very accurate at idle.

nice to hear, i measured also the actual power draw of the whole aurora case from the wall socket (4060ti) installed, it was about the same power consumption in total
as my x51 who has a 3770 with a 1660

 

[Daven]

As I predicted, rumors are starting to surface of lower clock speeds on future Intel processors:

Intel Core Ultra 9 285K "Arrow Lake" Desktop CPU Rumored To Clock Around 5.5 GHz (wccftech.com)

Of course these are rumors/leaks so far. Related to the topic on hand, Intel is concentrating on AI capabilities (NPU), E cores and iGPU. The P cores are being clocked down, stripped of functionality (lower IPC) and made less multithreaded (no HT). I do believe that the overall package will be very power efficiency starting with Arrow Lake and then progressing to Panther Lake and beyond. It is also possible the focus on AI is to cover up problems with the manufacturing nodes. The 20A or smaller nodes might not be working very well with large, high clocked tiles yet.

 

[olymind1]

There's no performance talk, there's AI, more of AI, and even more of AI

Sadly true, all they says is:

It's the HW makers' new buzzword so everyone would buy their AI PCs

What I'm curious is Zen5's and Core Ultra 200 series cpus' gaming performance, compression, audio/video encoding speed/time and power consumption and price. For me everything else is marketing BS.

 

[Zubasa]

nice to hear, i measured also the actual power draw of the whole aurora case from the wall socket (4060ti) installed, it was about the same power consumption in total
as my x51 who has a 3770 with a 1660

The issue with power draw at the outlet is it depends on the power supply and the VRM efficiency.
The VRM on the high-end boards are often quite inefficient at idle because they are so over-built.

 

[Onyx Turbine]

The issue with power draw at the outlet is it depends on the power supply and the VRM efficiency.
The VRM on the high-end boards usually quite inefficient at idle because they are so over-built.

That is correct. But not everyone builts a pc with a very expensive motherboard 300 dollar plus, so did dell with alienware not and went proprietary.
Besides all this noise, when i imagine myself being a senior intel cpu engineer or product manager whatever you like, it wouldnt be a bad idea,
to use some of the embedded ai computing ability to better auto tune the power curve wouldnt it be?

Besides a company who in my opinion does a fair job in auto tuning is zotac with its firestorm application for gpus.

 

[Remeca]

When you have jack going for you, mention AI x100. Apparently you can't go wrong mentioning AI, lmao.

Well, it's working fine for Nvidia.

 

[Zubasa]

That is correct. But not everyone builts a pc with a very expensive motherboard 300 dollar plus, so did dell with alienware not and went proprietary.
Besides all this noise, when i imagine myself being a senior intel cpu engineer or product manager whatever you like, it wouldnt be a bad idea,
to use some of the embedded ai computing ability to better auto tune the power curve wouldnt it be?

Besides a company who in my opinion does a fair job in auto tuning is zotac with its firestorm application for gpus.

On the Desktop espeically DIY the CPU idle power is not actually the majority of total system power at idle.
Most people don't expect (or don't care) how much power their case fans, RGB, and AIO pumps etc draw.
AMD does have the SVI2/3 TFN sensors on die to priovide die sense voltage and power.
I assume this is because AMD shares the CCD designs with Data Center and Desktop Replacement Laptops.

 

[Upgrayedd]

This is corrent, but who buys 14900K to use it as 35W or 65W CPU that is efficient in gaming? I will tell you who. No one. On average, 14900K uses whapping ~150W in gaming. It's a gaming monstrocity.

Also, give us a graph from that same article showing what happens to framerates at 35W and 65W. You get more efficient CPU in gaming, of course, but you lose so much performance, which makes entire 'efficiency' business nonsense.

At 35W, 14900K becomes 10400F or 3700X in gaming performance and 89% slower than 7800X3D in 720p testing
At 65W, 14900K becomes 5800X3D or 7600 in gaming performance and 25% slower than 7800X3D in 720p testing, and it is still less efficient

Intel Core i9-14900K Raptor Lake Tested at Power Limits Down to 35 W

There's no denying that Intel's Core i9-14900K is a power hog. This article examines the power, performance and thermals effects of limiting its power consumption, with very interesting results. Additionally, we investigate undervolting to determine if efficiency can be optimized even further.

www.techpowerup.com

Would you change power limit in BIOS and run 14900K efficiently in gaming at 65W?

The CPU power efficiency in gaming argument always makes me laugh. It's always drowned out by the 350w GPUs the CPUs are paired with. The savings on the power bill at the end of the year are minuscule. It's not enough to persuade for one side or the other just for PC gaming.

 

[Dr_b_]

Everything is on the roadmap and years away with intel

 

[Assimilator]

The CPU power efficiency in gaming argument always makes me laugh. It's always drowned out by the 350w GPUs the CPUs are paired with. The savings on the power bill at the end of the year are minuscule. It's not enough to persuade for one side or the other just for PC gaming.

We're not comparing CPUs to GPUs. We're comparing CPUs to CPUs. Do try to keep up.

 

[Jism]

I'd like to see a third or fourth party joining the X86 club; and simply make PP CPU's as in Performance CPU's - no AI, no E/P cores, none of that. Just for those who want the raw "V8" or "V16" Horsepower without all the bells and rings.

Personally i dont need AI.