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AMD RDNA 5 a "Clean Sheet" Graphics Architecture, RDNA 4 Merely Corrects a Bug Over RDNA 3

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There's no entry level in this generation. As for the 4080, fair enough. It's weird that you can find the 4080 Super cheaper sometimes.
The 4080 has an MSRP of $1199. The 4080 super launched with an MSRP of $999. It would be weird if you found any 4080 cheaper than the 4080 super.
 
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The 4080 has an MSRP of $1199. The 4080 super launched with an MSRP of $999. It would be weird if you found any 4080 cheaper than the 4080 super.
Yeah, but it's an older and weaker card, too, it should have received massive discounts when the Super launched. How else would Nvidia expect to clear inventory?
 
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How else would Nvidia expect to clear inventory
It seems they don't care, this always happens, 3090s kept their absurd prices long after 40 series was out, in fact even to this day you can find refurbished 3090s from retailers that are still priced well over 1000$ and you expect a 40 series card to be cheaper ? Ha.

"Discounts" and "Nvidia" are words you should not expect to be used together.,
 
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AMD could have had RDNA4 ready on the day after launching the RDNA3 but a company can’t just throw away a whole development cycle and we are on a two-year GPU cadence right now.

By the way ‘bug’ is the leakers word and shows how little he or she knows the technology.

AMD had been releasing slightly higher clock chips as new GPU in the past (Navi21 XT, XTX, XTXH), they would have immediately released a patched up Navi31 as Navi31 XTX
 
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It seems they don't care, this always happens, 3090s kept their absurd prices long after 40 series was out, in fact even to this day you can find refurbished 3090s from retailers that are still priced well over 1000$ and you expect a 40 series card to be cheaper ? Ha.

"Discounts" and "Nvidia" are words you should not expect to be used together.,
So you're suggesting that they aren't just assholes to their board partners and consumers, but also to distributors and retailers. How nice if it's true! :rolleyes:

AMD could have had RDNA4 ready on the day after launching the RDNA3 but a company can’t just throw away a whole development cycle and we are on a two-year GPU cadence right now.

By the way ‘bug’ is the leakers word and shows how little he or she knows the technology.
I read somewhere that AMD does a similar kind of tick-tock approach with Radeon as Intel did in the quad-core era. Basically, the team that worked on RDNA 2 is working on RDNA 4, while the team that worked on RDNA 3 is working on RDNA 5. This is probably why Navi 48 is expected to be a monolithic chip.

I don't know where I read this, and my memory regarding the details is hazy, so take it with a pinch of salt.
 
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What happened with the "7900 XT performance for 500 bucks" claim? Now it's "under 800"? What the heck?

RDNA 3 shaders with new ray accelerators sound fine to me, but let's get the price right first.

Edit: Also, talking about RDNA 5 even before RDNA 4 is announced doesn't suggest much good. It sounds almost like "RDNA 4 will be shit, but don't worry, folks, the one after that is a complete redesign".
$500? Its always been $700. Why are you mad about $800? $900 is such a good deal!

Seems to me we're gonna get an entire generation of ReBrandeon, with a "fix" that I'd bet decent money doesnt actually improve performance beyond margin of error. Kinda like GCN 1.1/1.2/1.4.

It has to be lower than that. If the top card is expected with "7900XT performance". The 7900XT can currently be bought for less than $799. So to have a good offer the new card needs to be cheaper or better performing, only some better RT performance won't be enough.. If it comes close to 7800XT pricing with 7900XTX performance and better RT, sound like a winner.
So given the way AMD behaved with the RX 7000s, expect it to launch at $799 and drop below $700 after a year of nobody buying it.

The answer is whatever Nvidia says it should.
*the answer is whatever the consumer will support.
 
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AMD had been releasing slightly higher clock chips as new GPU in the past (Navi21 XT, XTX, XTXH), they would have immediately released a patched up Navi31 as Navi31 XTX
This is why the leaker probably doesn't have correct info. Whatever AMD is about to release has confounded everyone so far.
 
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I apologize for a lot of repetitive bla-blah-blah! Maybe I shouldn't post this, but...

It seems RDNA4 is long overdue. Ideally this is what RDNA3 should have been, instead of releasing half baked product. This is important, because not only dGPUs are based on it, but iGPUs, as well. And the last require these improvements even more. Things are worse, because APUs/mobile are stuck with RDNA 3/3.5 for a long time. It means that the laptops comming in the next couple years, will still have the outdated iGPUs, that should have been replaced by RDNA4 at least year ago. And yet they advertise this as an achievement.

The power consumption, is the biggest threat right now. I would say even bigger than the inferiority of upscale and RTRT technologies. No matter how much someone uses the upscale, this won't fix the situation, if the card is a powerhog. It's completely clear, that the primary market for any company in the world is US, where company like AMD sells their absolute mass of products, and where people do not count, or think about amount of electric power being used. Especially when it comes to gamers.
So why does it matter? Because once again, the iGPUs use the same µarch, but scaled down/limited to just few CUs. If the efficiency is bad for desktop, it will be as bad with smaller iGPUs/hanheld/mobile GPUs either. And sadly, the inefficiency, is not only a result of an inferior node, but of inferior design as well. Not to mention, that there are ways to reduce the rendering load, without dumping the quality, instead of bruteforcing it. And this part alos heavily relies on the software side, which sadly still lags behind.

But enough complains. This won't fix the situation. Still would be great if these delays will turn into good fruition, and lead to abundance of powerful and improved, energy efficient products, even if they will not have the performance of next gen nVidia top solutions. But I don't hold my breath.
$650-700 would be ok, and in this market I certainly wouldn't expect much lower. It's just amusing to me that AMD started out (months ago, IIRC) with a declaration that they're bowing out of the high end, and now they're hedging their bets to such a degree that they've left room to undercut their previous "high-end" price points by no more than $100. Looks like someone in corporate realized that, "Hey, wait a minute, Nvidia might go so crazy with prices that we can spin $800 as a lol
Exactly. This is obvious, that nVidia get the pricing out of thin air, just to see where is the threshold they can get away with. And people paid that, thus set the pricing in stone, forever. The pricing was doomed, the day RTX 2080 was announced. AMD has no incentive, as they position themselves as "premium" brand. There can be no value-oriented market segment, and especially value oriented pricing for such segment, when each of the market participant (except intel for now) is a "premium" company.
This seems like great business model, where the consumer is pressed to the wall, and have no choice but to pay extortion prices, because both "rivals" set their SKUs and pricing vitrually the same. A "parity", with no losers, except the end user.

$700 is clearly inacceptable for a mid range GPU, even with inflation. Why midrange? Because from all the rumors RDNA4 will have no hi-end SKUs, just the refining of RDNA3 Rebrandeon RX 8000. So AMD just wants to stretch the maximal price nVidia would set, to their "top" midrange solutions. But at same time without submitting much effort, by maintaining the "GPU underdog" image, to justify their greed and laziness. This is ridiculous.
At least nVidia still has some pretense, that they "care" about "gamers", and still puts some fractions of R&D budget into the consumer GeForce. AMD does non of this, while asks as much money.
But this have began a while ago. Remember when AMD had to bring down RX5700 prices, due to outrage? They wanted to gouge people the way nVidia did, a while back, with the release of very first RDNA1. The completely new, raw and µarch, that had a lot of bugs and issues. But they somehow had hubris, to set the price tags, like they were flawless.
The problem with AMD is not because they have bad products. The problem is that they know that the nVidia pricing is delusional, but still comly with it. AMD being bashed more, because they follow the suit, and thus lose the public image and credibility. And it hurts them more, than nVidia themselves, because repeating the immoral move is even worse than comiting it in the first place (which can be explained as "unintentional" mistake).

No matter what people say, the CPUs and server, are not the only branches AMD has profited a lot from. Their GPUs still made them tons of money. But the Radeon is yet to have the same R&D treatment as Ryzen.
People say, that AMD has no money to put into better R&D, and they cannot compete with the scale of nVidia budget. But everyone forgets, that AMD made it's first Ryzen, by being on the verge of bancrupcy. The absolute end, with zero finacial backup. They had no additional sources of income, it was "all-in".
I don't say they must put all budget into consumer Radeon. That's stupid. But it would have been a great move, to improve RTG, as it can be an additional source of income. It's impossible to gain, without the input.
And the consumer/gaming branch poor sales are not due to people are uninterested in Radeon products. But due to the pricing being atrocious. It's not because people prefer nVidia, but because doubling down on margins alone, is destructive for the economy, and the company's health. If they don't see this now, then nothing will help.
7 99 is under $800.

Eitherway, I assume they will once again be similar in terms of Perf/$ VS nvidia
Coulpe bucks below nVidia counterparts, just to make an illusion of competition.
It has to be lower than that. If the top card is expected with "7900XT performance". The 7900XT can currently be bought for less than $799. So to have a good offer the new card needs to be cheaper or better performing, only some better RT performance won't be enough.. If it comes close to 7800XT pricing with 7900XTX performance and better RT, sound like a winner.
I dunno where is 7900XT for less than $799. Here are about 40 stores, all sell it for $1000. There's no competition.

But, yeah, this time AMD has to put at least some efforts for the consumer market. Otherwise it just looks as looks like a placeholder Radeon branch along with Enterprise.
And nope, I guess AMD won't make 7900XT for 7800XT money, since they already have set this pricing already, by shifting entire stack one class above. I mean 7900XT is just cries it is just a 7800XT, and what they call "7800XT" is just 7700XT instead. With 7900GRE being 7800 non-XT. 7600 being 7500, and 7700XT being true 7600XT. Only 7900XTX holds it's top SKU moniker, just having an excessive "X" at the end. So why would they do such favor, and undercut themselves by "gifting" the previous gen top performance, for "mid-end" prices? This is new era.
But the true cause behind the atrocious pricing, is that AMD is knee deep into top profit margins market of AI and enterprize. They don't make any assignment, no matter what.

However, the whole price/class shifting shenanigans, in reality made more disservice, rather than help. What I mean, is that the generational uplifts used to be due to each next gen one tier lower SKU performance, is same or more, than the higher tier/class SKU of previous gen. Or in other words, the same class SKU of the next gen should have performance uplift. Otherwise, this doesn't make sence, and is both counter-productive, and counter-evolutionary.

But AMD has really have shot themselves in both feet, by sticking to this scammy shenanigans, especially doing this after nVidia backpedaled their dumb 4080 12GB naming. What they have done is even worse. This not only makes the products less attractive price-wise. But also completely abolishes the whole generational uplift, by making it twice as bad. I mean If they'd stick with the naming mentioned above, the performance growth would be true, and way greater, than it is. But shifting it one tier above, the entire stack lost their performance improvements altogether.

The reasoning behind this is clear. AMD wanted to increase the profit margins. But by raising prices without naming the SKUs accordingly, would have made the pricing an unreasonable and blatant rip off. And could show their true pursuit for nVidia behavior, thus might ended up into public outrage. So, here we are.
Speculation about the price is pointless as of now. It will all depend on how NV prices their mainstream offerings and what those are like in terms of performance. Once again, I doubt AMD will go extremely aggressive on the price.


The term has shifted over the years, it seems, but the overall wisdom is that the mainstream, most widely appealing segment is 200-400 bucks. Anything above that is in the “GPU alone more expensive than an entire console” and as such is well into enthusiast territory. And above a 1000 we are in halo/prosumer land, whatever anyone says.
The entire point of pricing the VGA for a grant and above, is just means these cards were supposed for use by prosumers, just the GPU maker (nVidia in this case) to extract maximum margins out of them. Well, JHH himself said this while announcing RTX lineup of GeForce, saying it's a "holy grail" for the developers. Both 2080 Ti and Titan RTX (true uncut 2080Ti, rather than Titan), were positioned as products for content creators and designers. Sorta Quatro for "poor".
So this is obvious, the ordinary "gamur" Joe/Jane doesn't need to waste this ungodly amount of hard-earned money, on device, which price was set and inflated artificially and unreasonably. Because they (nVidia) can.
If the Nvidia's 50X0 again offers decrease in price / performance, all bets are off. AMD has no intention of undercutting Nvidia's pricing, because they don't want to dedicate significant portion of their silicon - they are focusing on products with much higher profit margins. So we might see an increase in pricing compared to current products, without any new technology or performance uplift, just because they will follow Nvidia.
Indeed. There is the reason why AMD market cap is now almost twice as big as Intels. Everyone says it's server/data center and CPU branch. But everyone forgets that both nVidia and AMD made a fortune by selling ships of cards directly to the miners. And used convenient "scalper" scapegoat, as a reasoning to inflate prices forever. The true virtue signaling of them, as claiming they were unable to issue the solution. But it was clear, that they could enforce the sale restriction, as much as take the entire supply under their control, and sell cards, directly from their very own store. But they didn't.
Intel was just late with their miner-specific ASIC hardware, so they've just switched to AI instead, before anything came to the market. So they just had to hold by the Arc development, as it's now their bread.

I'm sure there's huge portion of current AMD wealth, that is due to one single non-stop covid-mining rampage. And they both GPU makers had no incentive to return their prices back to the sane levels, as both were already benefit from selling their entire stocks to the compute/data center tasks, which miners/crypto are directly related to.

That's why, instead of investing into consumer market, they just invented AI "surge" to justify their wish to continue to sell all silicon, including consumer/gaming grade graphic cards to non-consumer/gamer, compute markets. AMD is maybe a bit more descreet about it, as they've openly dropped the consumer market in favor of AI/enterprize. And nVidia is just creates a whole lot of different tricks to rebadge their gamer GPUs as "compute" cards and circuimvent the restrictions.

That is the reason, they all stuffing the useless "AI" features to every GPU and CPU, just to inflate the price and ride on this "AI" train, while it's still going full steam. Some even try to "coordinate" the independent/open AI endevours.
What happened with the "7900 XT performance for 500 bucks" claim? Now it's "under 800"? What the heck?

RDNA 3 shaders with new ray accelerators sound fine to me, but let's get the price right first.

Edit: Also, talking about RDNA 5 even before RDNA 4 is announced doesn't suggest much good. It sounds almost like "RDNA 4 will be shit, but don't worry, folks, the one after that is a complete redesign".
They don't even try. I might be wrong, but it may happen, AMD designs RDNA5 with the main intention, of use them later as WS cards. They aren't trying to "better" the RDNA cards for consumer/gamer market needs. They used to have CDNA based on Vega/GCN, but why just not use the chip for workstations and sell the "crisps" binned chips as consumers RX series.
Now AMD just makes minimal efforts, to use it as in order to Radeon would continue to "exist" (which BTW helps nVidia to not fall under "monopoly" status), for R&D and test gound for future iGPU products, used in APU and consoles. Since these two and OEM are the next more important ereas after AI/enterprise. The DIY market is sadly dead.
 
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Am I happy with the way prices are now? No way.

BUT I bear this in mind. AMD 10 years ago were a heartbeat or two away from going bankrupt. Without them I dread to think what pricing would be now between Intel and Nvidia. I bet the executives at AMD also bear this in mind, it wasn't that long ago. It's still quite fresh in the mind.
 
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Ok, so we've written some stuff that may or may not be helpful. What do you think about the next AMD architecture that will be after rDNA 4. It is also mentioned in the article and there is an obvious fear in the comments to write anything other than trolling AMD. Can it really be a new architecture that fundamentally changes the landscape?
 
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So, NAVI 1X: Electric Boogaloo.

Got it.
 
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ITT

7900XT/4090 are the 4K gaming cards.

Few gamers embrace 4K as it has too many pixels for any GPU to hand out 120FPS with all the extra bits.

AMD aims for mainstream success.

Nvidia made a card that costs $250 more that we would rather buy, except that new one that will cost $500 that AMD isn’t going to compete with.

Rinse, repeat……
 
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So you're suggesting that they aren't just assholes to their board partners and consumers, but also to distributors and retailers. How nice if it's true!
No idea how it all works but I think even in their greed they're probably fully aware that 4080s super or regular don't and wont ever sell very well, they offer what's amongst one of the worst value propositions ever.
 
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Lets wait to test it properly. RDNA4 is clearly an optimization of some stuff that made it into RDNA3 but half baked like dual issue shaders, half the Infinity cache per memory channel, and better RT performance. RDNA4 could be a good long term solution for embedded and semicustom being a polished, tested, frugal and cheaper arch. RDNA5 could be an oportunity for a clean slate approach to close tech wise to NV but too early to tell anything.
 
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RDNA5 being a fresh start makes sense. The demands on a GPU have changed since RDNA was introduced, with a focus on predictive/raytracing/upscaling features that RDNA all runs on its shader cores, rather than Nvidia's dedicated logic for those functions. Though I'm loathe to call tensor cores 'dedicated' gaming hardware, the undeniable fact remains that Nvidia found a valid use for their non-gaming compute blocks and convinced the world that we needed DLSS and frame-generation. Regardless of my feelings towards upscaling's image quality, it's a big selling point in a modern GPU that can't be ignored.
 
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If top RDNA4 goes on sale for close to 7900GRE money for close to 7900XTX performance, that would be a sizeable generational improvement in vfm and great for 1440P and 4K gamers and might be significantly faster on heavy-RT games than RDNA3.
 
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How much should a graphics card cost if its GPU is mid-range? The prices you suggest seem absurd to me.
Jensen stated that he wanted Nvidia's mid-tier (XX60) series to be priced closer to console prices because as he put it, “we’ve always believed that the ASP [average selling price] of GeForce should drift towards the average selling price of a game console... and so it should be something along the lines of $500 or so roughly at this time.” The belief comes from the idea that, according to Huang, “GeForce is essentially a game console inside your PC.”

The earnings call was from Nvidia’s Q2 2023.
 
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Any price that exceeds €450 will be a failure as a mid-range card. As much as they want us to see that the mid-range starts at €600, it is a lie. I hope Intel comes to our rescue; ) A red team fanboy says it, because what is Nvidia...
 

ARF

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AMD's future RDNA 5 graphics architecture will bear a "clean sheet" design, and may probably not even have the RDNA branding, says WJM47196, a source of AMD leaks on ChipHell. Two generations ahead of the current RDNA 3 architecture powering the Radeon RX 7000 series discrete GPUs, RDNA 5 could see AMD reimagine the GPU and its key components, much in the same way RDNA did over the former "Vega" architecture

The prior architecture is called GCN. And before it, it was VLIW/4/5 (TeraScale).

So, the last RDNA architecture will be RDNA 4. The next one will no longer be RDNA? Nice...

And I guess they will invent and new retail branding. Something like Radeon UHD 280 X to be the top part.
 
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It makes a lot of sense for an entirely new architecture. Which out of the box will support the next version of Microsoft DirectX that will arrive with the next version of Windows in 202*(?).
 

Space Lynx

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Oct 17, 2014
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It makes a lot of sense for an entirely new architecture. Which out of the box will support the next version of Microsoft DirectX that will arrive with the next version of Windows in 202*(?).

I'm worried future hardware is going to go the extra mile to tie itself into Windows framework, probably with a nice strong poke from M$.

This is why I have decided I am never going to sell my current setup, so if M$ takes things too far, I can just yolo off to Linux for the next two decades and play backlog and emulate nostalgia games.

I hope I am wrong, and this rig ends up collecting dust in my closet for awhile when RDNA5 comes out.
 
Joined
Feb 20, 2019
Messages
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System Name Bragging Rights
Processor Atom Z3735F 1.33GHz
Motherboard It has no markings but it's green
Cooling No, it's a 2.2W processor
Memory 2GB DDR3L-1333
Video Card(s) Gen7 Intel HD (4EU @ 311MHz)
Storage 32GB eMMC and 128GB Sandisk Extreme U3
Display(s) 10" IPS 1280x800 60Hz
Case Veddha T2
Audio Device(s) Apparently, yes
Power Supply Samsung 18W 5V fast-charger
Mouse MX Anywhere 2
Keyboard Logitech MX Keys (not Cherry MX at all)
VR HMD Samsung Oddyssey, not that I'd plug it into this though....
Software W10 21H1, barely
Benchmark Scores I once clocked a Celeron-300A to 564MHz on an Abit BE6 and it scored over 9000.
Still curious how they're doing RDNA4. Rumours were that AMD were going monolithic instead of MCD for this gen but at the same time, if they're promising big performance/$ improvements that would be the opposite of monolithic.

5120 shaders like the GRE has could be very powerful at 3GHz with twice the InfinityCache. The GRE is basically a bandwidth-starved 7900XT
 
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