Next Crop of MSI Project Zero Motherboards to Implement CAMM2 DDR5 Memory

[btarunr]

The CAMM2 and LPCAMM2 form-factors were originally designed for thin-and-light notebooks, to provide them with memory replacements/upgrades without compromising on the Z-Height tolerances of the device's design. It looks like MSI sees a future for the CAMM2 form-factor on desktops, specifically the ones without cables sticking out. The company's next round of motherboards under its Project Zero banner will replace the conventional DDR5 DIMM slots with DDR5 CAMM2 slots. The company is joining forces with Kingston Technology for the effort.

Kingston is readying a new line of performance-segment CAMM2 modules under its FURY Impact brand that it originally uses for performance SO-DIMMs meant for gaming notebooks. MSI's next-gen Project Zero motherboard features contact points for a DDR5 CAMM2 module. A single CAMM2 module utilizes the entire 160-bit memory bus width of the Socket LGA1700 processor (that's both channels and their sub-channels). Kingston may release CAMM2 modules for most common memory sizes (such as 32 GB, 48 GB, 64 GB, and 96 GB), and most common DDR5 OC speeds for the platform (ranging between DDR5-6000 and DDR5-8000).



View at TechPowerUp Main Site

 

[Onasi]

Ah yes, please, do throw on more exotic, semi-proprietary stuff on this “project”, this surely will help with wider adoption. I tire of connecting long cables to my RAM DIMMs, such a hassle.

 

[GhostRyder]

I am intrigued by the idea, however I am confused what the benefit is on the desktop motherboards.

 

[Chaitanya]

I am intrigued by the idea, however I am confused what the benefit is on the desktop motherboards.

Might be useful for M-ITX build(if slot is on readside of board) but for larger Form factors doesnt make too much sense(no benifits to speed either).

 

[bonehead123]

I am intrigued by the idea, however I am confused what the benefit is on the desktop motherboards.

Same here... but if that pic is accurate, the modules don't seem all that much smaller or take up less space overall than normal DDR, other than laying flat instead of sticking upwards, which I suppose would look better overall, but that's more of an aesthetic consideration IMO instead of a functional one.....

But OTOH, it would allow for air coolers to be made to sit alot closer to the mobo without those gawd-awful jacked up pipes that have to be that way to clear the ram sticks....however, getting the cooler mfgr's onboard would be crucial to the success of the concept, so we'll have to wait for some reviews & tests of that mobo/camm combo in real world uses, then see what, if any, other benefits are made clearer

 

[aktpu]

semi-proprietary stuff

How is a JEDEC approved standard "semi-proprietary"?

 

[AGlezB]

I am intrigued by the idea, however I am confused what the benefit is on the desktop motherboards.

Standarization, mainly. SO-DIMM and DIMM are not interchangeable even if both have the exact same specs.
Having a single module type you can use anywere is a big win.

Might also help prevent e-waste and I say "might" because a MB will most likely have one CAMM2 slot so upgrading you RAM will mean "replacing" instead of just "adding more".
On the other hand that might be a good thing if there is a healthy second-hand RAM market, which is more likely if there is a more unified standard.

 

[20mmrain]

But hey! The flat shape will allow for an eventual LCD screen to be added. Lord knows we need more LCD's and RGB's!

 

[Kohl Baas]

Well, not cabling, but if you want to slap a custom loop on it, now there's the opportunity for the monoblock to extend on the RAM itself. Needlessly watercooling the standard DIMMs is quite hard to do in an effective way. Most of the cooling solutions have a narrow crossflow for heat unlike the old Koolance "baggy" coolers which had the water "touch" the chips itself via an elastic bag-like thing that separated the water.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Ah yes, please, do throw on more exotic, semi-proprietary stuff on this “project”, this surely will help with wider adoption. I tire of connecting long cables to my RAM DIMMs, such a hassle.

It's a JEDEC standard.

JEDEC Publishes New CAMM2 Memory Module Standard | JEDEC

www.jedec.org

 

[Onasi]

How is a JEDEC approved standard "semi-proprietary"?

The article clearly states that MSI is partnering with Kingston on this. Yes, there are theoretically other manufacturers who CAN make those modules, the spec IS open. However “approved” the standard is, though, it will still be semi-proprietary in my eyes (note the semi there) as long as there is no wide adoption and availability. Same story as the trainwreck that’s 12VO power or, hell, this whole adventure with back-connector mobos overall.

Well, not cabling, but if you want to slap a custom loop on it, now there's the opportunity for the monoblock to extend on the RAM itself. Needlessly watercooling the standard DIMMs is quite hard to do in an effective way.

Watercooling RAM is nonsensical for regular PC use. It doesn’t get that hot. And for insane OCs there is LN2.

It's a JEDEC standard.

JEDEC Publishes New CAMM2 Memory Module Standard | JEDEC

www.jedec.org

No, you don’t say? I obviously wasn’t aware. /s
People love sticking to phrasing, huh?

 

[TheLostSwede]

I am intrigued by the idea, however I am confused what the benefit is on the desktop motherboards.

Currently, nothing much, but technically, higher memory speeds.

Standarization, mainly. SO-DIMM and DIMM are not interchangeable even if both have the exact same specs.
Having a single module type you can use anywere is a big win.

Except most laptops will use LPCAMM2, not CAMM2 modules...

 

[Denver]

I love the idea, I hope it becomes a standard.

 

[persondb]

The article clearly states that MSI is partnering with Kingston on this. Yes, there are theoretically other manufacturers who CAN make those modules, the spec IS open. However “approved” the standard is, though, it will still be semi-proprietary in my eyes (note the semi there) as long as there is no wide adoption and availability. Same story as the trainwreck that’s 12VO power or, hell, this whole adventure with back-connector mobos overall.

Crucial/Micron is already selling the LPDDR5 version of it. It wouldn't be a stretch if they soon offer DDR5 versions as well, it can be a bit of a chicken and egg problem because they need someone to start putting those in MB so there is clients who can buy those. What is likely happening is that MSI needed to partner with Kingston so there is a guarantee that at least someone offers those memories when the Motherboard goes to retail, later manufacturers can join in as adoption increase.

Give it time, I think it has only been a couple months since JEDEC adopted the standard?

Crucial is selling 64GB LPCAMM2 Micron memory modules for $330 | Tom's Hardware (tomshardware.com)

 

[kilo]

Flatter RAM means more space for air coolers, which is a bonus.

On the other hand, having all ones RAM on a single board means no expandability. Sure one can get a larger quantity, but you have to remove the old, now useless CAMM whereas before, you can just add DIMM's. I would be more inclined to adopt a CAMM is there were multiple CAMM slots for later expansion.

 

[Onasi]

Flatter RAM means more space for air coolers, which is a bonus.

They still have to clear VRM heatsinks on motherboards, so I am not sure it will be that much of a height reduction.

Crucial/Micron is already selling the LPDDR5 version of it. It wouldn't be a stretch if they soon offer DDR5 versions as well, it can be a bit of a chicken and egg problem because they need someone to start putting those in MB so there is clients who can buy those. What is likely happening is that MSI needed to partner with Kingston so there is a guarantee that at least someone offers those memories when the Motherboard goes to retail, later manufacturers can join in as adoption increase.

Give it time, I think it has only been a couple months since JEDEC adopted the standard?

I have absolutely no faith that this will get adopted in large enough quantities to cause any noticeable shift. The desktop PC is a very well entrenched ecosystem and having a major change like this is extremely unlikely. And then you are left with limited options costing quite a bit more than the standard. The LPDDR module you linked is 330 bucks. Let’s say that the DDR5 one for the same capacity is in the same ballpark. 64 gigs of DDR5, depending on a kit, can be grabbed for 100-150 less. It’s not a good proposition.

 

[rv8000]

I am intrigued by the idea, however I am confused what the benefit is on the desktop motherboards.

Little impactful benefit, meanwhile downsides from creating additional standards/sockets/form factors are numerous.

This has no place in the consumer desktop space.

 

[AGlezB]

Except most laptops will use LPCAMM2, not CAMM2 modules...

LP means Low-Power and provided they don't do something stupid with the standard it will not matter. As for the size, as long as the pins are in the right places the actual size of the module is not that big of a deal because the only difference is where the screws go. Think of M.2 SSDs where you can have anything from 2230 to 22110 and while some devices cannot fit 22110 pretty much everything supports 2280 and below. Also, while LPCAMM2 main target will be laptops that doesn't mean you cannot use it on desktops, again provided they don't do something stupid with the standard.

 

[LabRat 891]

Seems a little out of place if you ask me.

TBF though, this would probably be really handy for APU-based HTPCs/SFF machines.
(Making the demo pic on an ATX board, rather odd)

 

[Canned Noodles]

I’d like to see how well these CAMM modules overclock, this is just the right way to do it

 

[LabRat 891]

How is a JEDEC approved standard "semi-proprietary"?

Extremely limited implementation.
Kinda like how Thunderbolt was mostly an Apple-only feature until something like Intel Core i-series Gen6.
Or
How several devices of years-gone-by used 'in-standard' but very rare form factors of USB and HDMI.

 

[GenericUsername2001]

This seems like it will be a bit of a novelty for DDR5 and current CPUs, but I hope that for DDR6 they just make all RAM use these CAMM units; aside from the speed improvements it would be nice to not have separate CPU & laptop RAM. And for that matter, it would be really nice if future CPUs upped their memory bandwidth, and we get desktop boards that used two of these modules, providing enough bandwidth for some pretty potent APUs.

 

[TheLostSwede]

LP means Low-Power and provided they don't do something stupid with the standard it will not matter. As for the size, as long as the pins are in the right places the actual size of the module is not that big of a deal because the only difference is where the screws go. Think of M.2 SSDs where you can have anything from 2230 to 22110 and while some devices cannot fit 22110 pretty much everything supports 2280 and below. Also, while LPCAMM2 main target will be laptops that doesn't mean you cannot use it on desktops, again provided they don't do something stupid with the standard.

Yeah, it means low power, but a CAMM2 and an LPCAMM2 are not pin-to-pin compatible and most, if not all desktop CPUs don't support LPDDR memory (embedded parts not included).
CAMM2 and LPCAMM to is nothing like different length of M.2 drives.
That said, we might see CAMM2 support in some laptops.

 

[AGlezB]

Yeah, it means low power, but a CAMM2 and an LPCAMM2 are not pin-to-pin compatible and most, if not all desktop CPUs don't support LPDDR memory (embedded parts not included).
CAMM2 and LPCAMM to is nothing like different length of M.2 drives.

Sorry. You're right. They already did something stupid with the standard.

 

[Daven]

Seems like this is most useful to free up space for CPU HSF clearance which could lead to beefier cooling setups. Also allows HSF on top of the RAM if that ever becomes a thing.