AMD Shuffles Feature-sets of its 800-series Chipset, X870 is B650E Successor

[btarunr]

AMD is debuting its Ryzen 9000 series "Granite Ridge" desktop processors powered by the "Zen 5" microarchitecture later this year. These chips are compatible with existing AMD 600-series chipset motherboards with a simple UEFI firmware update, but the company is also taking the opportunity to launch the AMD 800-series chipset family alongside these chips. The lineup will be led by the AMD X870E, followed by the X870. These two chipsets should launch immediately alongside the new processors, but will later be joined by the AMD B850 and B840. There's no entry-level chipset planned, the AMD A620 will continue to hold the fort for AMD here. There is an interesting new mix of product differentiation, according to a leaked GIGABYTE slide scored by VideoCardz.

If you recall, the X670E and X670 were differentiated by a lack of Gen 5 PCI-Express x16 PEG slots on the X670, which instead was limited to Gen 4 on the PEG slot. The X670 still had Gen 5 NVMe slots attached to the CPU, and had practically the same I/O features as the X670E, including the same counts of downstream PCIe Gen 4 general purpose lanes. Both the X670E and X670 are 2-chip solutions, in that the second chip is a connected to the general purpose PCIe lanes of the first chip, which in turn is connected to the processor. Things are going to change with the 800-series. The top-spec X870E will be a 2-chip solution, with PCIe Gen 4 general purpose lane counts resembling the X670E; but the X870 is a single-chip solution that more closely resembles the B650E in I/O. The X870 (non-E) now gives you Gen 5 PCI-Express x16 PEG, just like the X870E and the B650E, and at least one Gen 5 x4 NVMe slot attached to the CPU, but has fewer downstream Gen 4 general purpose PCIe lanes than the X670. Both the X870E and X870 assure USB4 connectivity, and support CPU overclocking. Things get very interesting in the mid-range.



The AMD B850 is very similar to the X870 in terms of downstream general purpose PCIe Gen 4 lanes. What's more, it even assures a Gen 5 x16 PEG slot, much like the X870. Where it differs from the X870 is its CPU-attached NVMe slots. Gen 5 is made optional here (motherboard vendors can provide Gen 5 if they want, but are perfectly free to offer Gen 4 instead). Unlike the X870E and X870, the B850 doesn't mandate USB4 connectivity, however, motherboard vendors will be free to offer discrete USB4 controllers on their boards. Much like the B650 and its predecessors dating all the way back to the B350, the B850 supports CPU overclocking.

The B840 is a new introduction with this generation, there's no real predecessor to it, although it closely resembles the A620A, which in turn resembles the B550. It completely removes all forms of Gen 5 PCIe from the platform—the x16 slots are limited to Gen 4, as are the M.2 NVMe slots attached to the CPU. This chipset also lacks CPU overclocking support. It does retain memory overclocking, and B840 motherboards should support AMD EXPO, as well as manual memory overclocking. What sets the B840 apart from the A620 is its Gen 4 PCIe connectivity both along the PEG and general purpose PCIe.

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[Chaitanya]

That B650E really didnt make sense given there were X670 boards available at lower prices and with better feature set in many cases(mainly overpriced Shitsus boards).
Edit: That B840 is the one that looks the most interesting from value point of view of non-X CPUs.

 

[Gucky]

That B650E really didnt make sense given there were X670 boards available at lower prices and with better feature set in many cases(mainly overpriced Shitsus boards).
Edit: That B840 is the one that looks the most interesting from value point of view of non-X CPUs.

What? The E is for PCIe 5.0 in the GPU slot, X670 doesn't have that.

 

[Super Firm Tofu]

That B650E really didnt make sense given there were X670 boards available at lower prices and with better feature set in many cases(mainly overpriced Shitsus boards).
Edit: That B840 is the one that looks the most interesting from value point of view of non-X CPUs.

Why wouldn't you want to overclock an non-X chip? Those are the best bang for the buck. Makes no sense to celebrate the locking out of overclocking.

 

[Chaitanya]

Why wouldn't you want to overclock an non-X chip? Those are the best bang for the buck. Makes no sense to celebrate the locking out of overclocking.

That looks like replacement to Ax20 chipset, and other than my personal PC I dont want to OC my clients PCs or dont even want them to touch OC(on accident).

What? The E is for PCIe 5.0 in the GPU slot, X670 doesn't have that.

Does that PCIe 5.0 x16 slot even matter for consumers outside of enterprise market?

 

[Super Firm Tofu]

That looks like replacement to Ax20 chipset, and other than my personal PC I dont want to OC my clients PCs or dont even want them to touch OC(on accident).

Except according to the chart the A620 series is continuing in the value position. This is just AMD copying Intel and locking out overclocking as they do on their 'B' series chipsets. Hasn't that been one of AMDs bigger marketing points that their chips are unlocked in contrast to Intel?

 

[Chaitanya]

Except according to the chart the A620 series is continuing in the value position. This is just AMD copying Intel and locking out overclocking as they do on their 'B' series chipsets. Hasn't that been one of AMDs bigger marketing points that their chips are unlocked in contrast to Intel?

You still have B850 and B650/E all of which support OC on B series of boards while atleast for now there doesnt seem to be A820 chipset which is where overall feature set of B840 seems to land.

 

[Super Firm Tofu]

You still have B850 and B650/E all of which support OC on B series of boards while atleast for now there doesnt seem to be A820 chipset which is where overall feature set of B840 seems to land.

I still think any lock down of B series is a mistake, but I suppose if these boards show up at the $100 mark it makes sense. Anything more than that seems like a cash grab.

 

[Jism]

Does that PCIe 5.0 x16 slot even matter for consumers outside of enterprise market?

Since AMD's CPU's come from the enterprise line, so do the chipsets. So it's only logical that PCI-E 5.0 is coming to consumers since enterprise is already sitting on 5.0.

In regards of GPU's and PCI-Express: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/nvidia-geforce-rtx-4090-pci-express-scaling/

Speaks for itself. PCI-E 4.0 still is not fully used. And will take a few generations before we do.

 

[Onasi]

Just as it was with previous couple gens, the B850 looks like a sweet-spot. Everything you need, not much compromise. Gen 5 SSDs are essentially useless and USB 4 is very niche so far. Seeing how essentially you get all the good stuff with OC and Gen 5 on GPU I would say the X chipsets would be a hard sell for most builds.

 

[tabascosauz]

Since AMD's CPU's come from the enterprise line, so do the chipsets.

EPYC has no use for a PCH, AM5 uses Promontory, TRX50 shares AM5's Promontory hardware. Where's the enterprise chipsets? No more commonality between IO die and PCH other than X570.

 

[londiste]

Does that PCIe 5.0 x16 slot even matter for consumers outside of enterprise market?

There was a lot of hoopla again around AM5 and longevity. If I am buying into a new socket with supposedly long life it better have all the shiny bulletpoint features. In this marketing segment and price range, surely.

 

[azrael]

Looking at that image of the comparison table I cannot avoid noticing that for "silicon" they all state P21 (except for the B840 which states P19). Does that mean the "new" chipsets are essentially using the same hardware as the old ones?

 

[TheLostSwede]

Looking at that image of the comparison table I cannot avoid noticing that for "silicon" they all state P21 (except for the B840 which states P19). Does that mean the "new" chipsets are essentially using the same hardware as the old ones?

With the addition of the ASM4242 USB4 host controller, yes.

 

[Assimilator]

So just shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic.

 

[Gucky]

Does that PCIe 5.0 x16 slot even matter for consumers outside of enterprise market?

Only if consumer GPUs use it.
Be it next Gen or the one after. Usually you keep CPUs for longer.
SO it is only relevant for people that buy AM5 now and upgrade the CPU later, so that they can use the board for the next 5-9 years.
It mostly plays with peoples minds.

If it had to buy a AM5 board right now, I would still buy B650E, the cheapest one. It was tested and is good enough and I don't need the connectivity of the X670 board.
That said, I didn't buy AM5 since I have a good 5800X3D (on a B550 board). I might be able to skip AM5 completely and buy AM6 with DDR6, also skipping DDR5.

 

[Neo_Morpheus]

Many are buying intel over AMD just because of thunderbolt and here is AMD half-*ssing the closest thing they have (USB4).

Its a pain to root for them when they keep doing nonsense actions like this.

 

[ARF]

B840 looks bad. Better be veeeery cheap. It's in fact a rebadged A820..

 

[Wirko]

With the addition of the ASM4242 USB4 host controller, yes.

Which is disappointing for one more reason: there won't be a Gen 5 chipset link in this generation.

 

[Knight47]

Many are buying intel over AMD just because of thunderbolt and here is AMD half-*ssing the closest thing they have (USB4).

Its a pain to root for them when they keep doing nonsense actions like this.

There are some boards with TB4 add in card support.

 

[Chrispy_]

Oh yeah, I kind forgot that the E variants existed.

Have any of you actually need that many lanes without also needing like a system of rack-based servers and 25GbE switches?

 

[Random_User]

The chipsets for AM5 platform was the biggest let down. And AMD is yet doubling down on "bullsh*tery", instead of adressing the issues. The entire point of the AM5 platform becomes moot with such "decisions". And if motherboards on 600 series often is priced the same as literally two years later, the 800 series not only is not adding any value, or fixing the atrocious motherboard choice, but is doing completely opposite. Good luck buying the same old garbage P21 for new increased prices. Disgusting.

P.S.: Despite the lack of price in these rumours price, it's going to be a mess, obviously. With the RDNA1/Zen3 AMD started to pull the dirty "pricing" trick every single launch. I doubt this is an exception.

I still think any lock down of B series is a mistake, but I suppose if these boards show up at the $100 mark it makes sense. Anything more than that seems like a cash grab.

This is just "inflated" A series. This isn't really a B series chipset. They got away with SKU naming shenanigans with RDNA3, where they renamed RX 7500 to 7600, why wouldn't they do the same here. Intel sheeps buy every cr*p it farts for two decades. Why this should be any different.

And AMD their investors know better. Never again they will let that "charity" with A420/520, let alone to ride the 16 Core CPU, especially with an OC. Such a "luxury" for "free".

B840 looks bad. Better be veeeery cheap. It's in fact a rebadged A820..

Hardly, after this, though. As the biggest problem is they inflated the numbers on the bottom of the stack. So now it is "worth" more in their heads. And if you consider, that the absolute garbage A620 motherboards were costing north of $100, or even $120 during it's inception, you can guess what it's going to be now. AMD has completely lost it's shame.

 

[Zubasa]

Many are buying intel over AMD just because of thunderbolt and here is AMD half-*ssing the closest thing they have (USB4).

Its a pain to root for them when they keep doing nonsense actions like this.

What exactly do you need that is TB4 specific which USB4 can't do?

There are some boards with TB4 add in card support.

There are AM5 motherboards with TB4 controllers built in as well.
A couple of AM4 boards even have TB3 certification from Intel.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Which is disappointing for one more reason: there won't be a Gen 5 chipset link in this generation.

Huh? That never was a thing. All the lanes from the CPU are PCIe 5.0, but the chipset(s) are only PCIe 4.0.

Oh yeah, I kind forgot that the E variants existed.

Have any of you actually need that many lanes without also needing like a system of rack-based servers and 25GbE switches?

Well, I'm not using one slot, but otherwise my board is pretty loaded up, so yes. An B650 board wouldn't have done it for me.

So just shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic.

Why you hating on AMD? This is just to keep the motherboard makers happy so they have something "new" to sell. Same as Intel.

What exactly do you need that is TB4 specific which USB4 can't do?

There are AM5 motherboards with TB4 controllers built in as well.
A couple of AM4 boards even have TB3 certification from Intel.0

It's crystal clear at this point that a lot of people have drunk the Intel cool-aid, since Intel has been pushing its agenda that Thunderbolt is better than USB4.
USB4 supports the full 40 Gbps for data, whereas Thunderbolt 3 and 4 are "limited" to 32 Gbps, since 8 Gbps is always reserved for display data.
USB4 supports PCIe, USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 (20 Gbps) and USB4 data, Thunderbolt supports PCIe and USB 3.2 Gen 2 (10 Gbps) data.

Yes, Thunderbolt has a networking layer that Intel didn't give to the USB-IF as well as VT-d based DMA protection, but that's the only real advantages.

Neither standards supports enough power to be useful without supporting USB-PD, 15 W for Thunderbolt and 7.5 W for USB4.

The rest where Intel claims USB4 is inferior, doesn't apply to the host controller, but could apply to devices, but then it also applies to Thunderbolt, since all USB4 certified devices has to support Thunderbolt.

And this wasn't me having a go at you, simply agreeing with you and adding some points to show why it doesn't matter too much which standard your computer supports, because all the important stuff is more or less the same.

 

[hsew]

I wish they’d get rid of the E suffix already… what’s wrong with X870 and X860/B860 instead of X870/E?