AMD Shuffles Feature-sets of its 800-series Chipset, X870 is B650E Successor

[trsttte]

Many are buying intel over AMD just because of thunderbolt and here is AMD half-*ssing the closest thing they have (USB4).

Its a pain to root for them when they keep doing nonsense actions like this.

On desktops? I can see that happening with laptops, but for the desktop market I don't see much use for either standard.

I wish they’d get rid of the E suffix already… what’s wrong with X870 and X860/B860 instead of X870/E?

But then it wouldn't be EXTREME!

 

[Makaveli]

The only thing I don't like is the chipset link is still PCIE 4.0 and not 5.0

 

[Cifu]

The only thing I don't like is the chipset link is still PCIE 4.0 and not 5.0

The IOD of the Ryzen 9000 series exactly the as the Ryzen 7000 CPU's and the motherboard SOC of the 800 series exactly the same as the 600 series (Promontory21 or Prom21 in short).
What did you expect then?

Personally I don't really think there is any hard pressure to choose the 800 series over the 600 series.
Nothing new aside the USB4 and the Wifi7.

 

[Makaveli]

The IOD of the Ryzen 9000 series exactly the as the Ryzen 7000 CPU's and the motherboard SOC of the 800 series exactly the same as the 600 series (Promontory21 or Prom21 in short).
What did you expect then?

Personally I don't really think there is any hard pressure to choose the 800 series over the 600 series.
Nothing new aside the USB4 and the Wifi7.

I know but I was hoping

Does the IF 2400 speed apply if you put a Zen 5 chip in a 600 series board?

 

[londiste]

I wish they’d get rid of the E suffix already… what’s wrong with X870 and X860/B860 instead of X870/E?

This kind of makes sense because the difference E denotes is not about the chipset but the requirements for the board. With ot without E, the chipset is the same.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Many are buying intel over AMD just because of thunderbolt and here is AMD half-*ssing the closest thing they have (USB4).

Its a pain to root for them when they keep doing nonsense actions like this.

Sorry, but you clearly haven't read up on USB4.
Please read this before making uneducated comments.

USB4 is Coming - Everything You Need to Know

USB4 is the next evolution of the USB standard, but it's quite different from its predecessors as it brings with it support for DisplayPort connectivity, as well as optional PCI-Express and Thunderbolt 3 support. It tries to fix some technical issues, but adds a few of its own, but at least the...

www.techpowerup.com

USB4 = 40 Gbps
Thunderbolt 3/4 = 32 Gbps.

The only thing I don't like is the chipset link is still PCIE 4.0 and not 5.0

It's a cost thing and it was a time to market thing. It's also a hardware development time/cost thing as well.
Considering it's ASMedia that makes the chipset for them and they have exactly zero PCIe 5.0 devices today, it would be a from scratch project for them in some ways.
I wouldn't expect that to happen until AMD decides to make a new chipset from scratch.

Personally I don't really think there is any hard pressure to choose the 800 series over the 600 series.
Nothing new aside the USB4 and the Wifi7.

You can already get 600-series boards with USB4 and WiFi 7.

Gigabyte Announces the B650E AORUS PRO X with USB4

GIGABYTE TECHNOLOGY Co. Ltd, a leading manufacturer of motherboards, graphics cards, and hardware solutions, introduced the latest all-round B650E AORUS PRO X USB4 motherboard. Built-in with Dual USB4 ports and comprehensive leading features, B650E AORUS PRO X USB4 enables users to enjoy the...

www.techpowerup.com

Does the IF 2400 speed apply if you put a Zen 5 chip in a 600 series board?

Unknown at the moment, but it might also be one of those things AMD tried to pull in the past, so only the new boards can support it due to reasons...
However, there should be no reason why it shouldn't work.

This kind of makes sense because the difference E denotes is not about the chipset but the requirements for the board. With ot without E, the chipset is the same.

Not any more.
With E = 2x Prom 21
Without E = 1x Prom 21

 

[Timbaloo]

AMD yet again manages to confuse the shit out of me with their weird chipset lineup. So if a motherboard manufacturer decides to opt-in on Gen5-M.2 "from CPU" and USB4 with the B850 chipset, it automatically becomes an X870? Or what would the difference between B650 and X870 be in that case? Is it either Gen5-M.2 or UBS4 to "identify" as B850?

I guess once I understand the fuzz about all these different options and why they have to be there in the first place, I can easily write a thesis on quantum mechanics...

 

[Wirko]

Huh? That never was a thing. All the lanes from the CPU are PCIe 5.0, but the chipset(s) are only PCIe 4.0.

Never was a thing - but now we know it also won't be. That's one of the biggest deficiencies of the 600 series chipsets, so I was expecting an upgrade to 5.0 in the next generation. A "Promontory 24" made on 7nm.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Never was a thing - but now we know it also won't be. That's one of the biggest deficiencies of the 600 series chipsets, so I was expecting an upgrade to 5.0 in the next generation.

Yeah, it was an issue for Intel in the past too, at least in theory, but no-one has proven that it's a real world bottleneck in either case.

AMD yet again manages to confuse the shit out of me with their weird chipset lineup. So if a motherboard manufacturer decides to opt-in on Gen5-M.2 "from CPU" and USB4 with the B850 chipset, it automatically becomes an X870? Or what would the difference between B650 and X870 be in that case? Is it either Gen5-M.2 or UBS4 to "identify" as B850?

I guess once I understand the fuzz about all these different options and why they have to be there in the first place, I can easily write a thesis on quantum mechanics...

Well. this is technically an X870 board

Gigabyte Announces the B650E AORUS PRO X with USB4

GIGABYTE TECHNOLOGY Co. Ltd, a leading manufacturer of motherboards, graphics cards, and hardware solutions, introduced the latest all-round B650E AORUS PRO X USB4 motherboard. Built-in with Dual USB4 ports and comprehensive leading features, B650E AORUS PRO X USB4 enables users to enjoy the...

www.techpowerup.com

 

[b1k3rdude]

So absolutely no mention of the CPU socket type or what RAM is supported...

 

[Tek-Check]

Does that PCIe 5.0 x16 slot even matter for consumers outside of enterprise market?

Not until Gen5 GPUs are out. Once this happens, towards the end of the year, people will be able to run GPU in Gen5 x8 mode wihtout perofrmance loss and the second Gen5 x8 slot, if it's there, willl be freed for other devices such as NVMe array.

 

[Makaveli]

So absolutely no mention of the CPU socket type or what RAM is supported...

We should know in like 25 hours.

 

[Tek-Check]

This is just AMD copying Intel and locking out overclocking as they do on their 'B' series chipsets. Hasn't that been one of AMDs bigger marketing points that their chips are unlocked in contrast to Intel?

It's hardly copying when one can still OC AMD CPU on three chipsets and Intel's only on Z boards.

Many are buying intel over AMD just because of thunderbolt and here is AMD half-*ssing the closest thing they have (USB4).
Its a pain to root for them when they keep doing nonsense actions like this.

Perhaps you could update half-*ssed knowledge of USB4 controller's spec?
ASM4242 USB4 chip supports much faster PCIe data transfer than Thunderbolt 4. ASM4242 supports PCIe 4.0 and TB4 PCIe 3.0. Speeds on ASM4242 reach 40 Gbps for PCIe data whereas on TB4 it's ~27 Gbps, after overhead.

Which is disappointing for one more reason: there won't be a Gen 5 chipset link in this generation.

Nobody needs one now. Even Thunderbolt 5 does not support PCIe Gen5.

The chipsets for AM5 platform was the biggest let down. And AMD is yet doubling down on "bullsh*tery", instead of adressing the issues. The entire point of the AM5 platform becomes moot with such "decisions". And if motherboards on 600 series often is priced the same as literally two years later, the 800 series not only is not adding any value, or fixing the atrocious motherboard choice, but is doing completely opposite. Good luck buying the same old garbage P21 for new increased prices. Disgusting.

We are so sorry to have not met your expectations. Please receive sincere apologies from entire planet. Yours sincerely, human race.

What exactly do you need that is TB4 specific which USB4 can't do?

He needs knowledge of the chip's spec in the first palce, and some humility, so that the post does not come across as ignorant arogance.

There are AM5 motherboards with TB4 controllers built in as well.

Indeed, mostly from Asrock and Asus.

A couple of AM4 boards even have TB3 certification from Intel.

Even double Thunderbolt 4 ports, such as on Asus B550 ProArt.

Yes, Thunderbolt has a networking layer that Intel didn't give to the USB-IF as well as VT-d based DMA protection, but that's the only real advantages.

This also works as USB4NET or USB4 P2P on USB4. In Windows 11, a network driver is automatically assigned when two PCs are connected and the file transfer speed is the same as on TB, so 10 Gbps in each direction. Not sure about Windows 10 though.

Universal Serial Bus 4 (USB4™) interdomain connections

Universal Serial Bus 4 (USB4™) interdomain connections

learn.microsoft.com

The only thing I don't like is the chipset link is still PCIE 4.0 and not 5.0

Gen5 chipset link will be expensive. And such chipset does not even exist at the moment.

Personally I don't really think there is any hard pressure to choose the 800 series over the 600 series.
Nothing new aside the USB4 and the Wifi7.

- faster memory and faster EXPO profile for those who need it
- faster video ports from onboard graphics, as Gigabyte's leak shows that iGPU on 9000 CPUs supports DP 2.1 at its full speed 80 Gbps.
- more boards will feature internal HDMI/DP port for another display attached to PC case
- we might finally get the first board featuring front USB4 port with 40 Gbps as ASM4242 chip supports two USB-C ports.

I agree there is no pressure. Improvements are simply incremental as the platform has matured now.

Does the IF 2400 speed apply if you put a Zen 5 chip in a 600 series board?

Each 600 board would need to roll out a seperate BIOS update for this to appear as an option.

So if a motherboard manufacturer decides to opt-in on Gen5-M.2 "from CPU" and USB4 with the B850 chipset, it automatically becomes an X870? Or what would the difference between B650 and X870 be in that case? Is it either Gen5-M.2 or UBS4 to "identify" as B850?

If a board has both Gen5 NVMe drive and USB4, it is X870 board. There is no "opt-in". It's segmented by default.

 

[LabRat 891]

So absolutely no mention of the CPU socket type or what RAM is supported...

Ya know... since the link to Promontory 21 and ASM4242 are both PCIe Gen4x4
and
AMD *just* released new XT AM4 CPUs...

I think I'd eat my hat if there were any AM4 PROM21 (X840/X640/B845/(E)/?) boards planned, though.

ASrock used to do cool stuff like that, TBF

ASRock Innovates Socket 939 Motherboard with AMD 785G Chipset

This creation by ASRock is bound to surprise you. The motherboard specialist used a present-generation AMD 785G + SB710 chipset to drive a socket 939 motherboard, called the ASRock 939A785GMH128M. That's right, socket 939, supporting some of the oldest processors in the Athlon 64 and Sempron 64...

www.techpowerup.com

 

[Tek-Check]

Well. this is technically an X870 board

Gigabyte Announces the B650E AORUS PRO X with USB4

GIGABYTE TECHNOLOGY Co. Ltd, a leading manufacturer of motherboards, graphics cards, and hardware solutions, introduced the latest all-round B650E AORUS PRO X USB4 motherboard. Built-in with Dual USB4 ports and comprehensive leading features, B650E AORUS PRO X USB4 enables users to enjoy the...

www.techpowerup.com

There is a bizarre spec entry by Gigabyte for iGPU:
"Integrated Graphics Processor with AMD Radeon™ Graphics support:
- 1 x HDMI port, supporting a maximum resolution of 7680x4320@60 Hz
* Support for HDMI 2.1 version, HDCP 2.3, and HDR.
** Support native HDMI 2.1 TMDS compatible ports."

TMDS signal (HDMI 2.0b) only support 18 Gbps, but Gigabyte says 8K/60Hz. These two things are mutually incompatible.

 

[LabRat 891]

There is a bizarre spec entry by Gigabyte for iGPU:
"Integrated Graphics Processor with AMD Radeon™ Graphics support:
- 1 x HDMI port, supporting a maximum resolution of 7680x4320@60 Hz
* Support for HDMI 2.1 version, HDCP 2.3, and HDR.
** Support native HDMI 2.1 TMDS compatible ports."

TMDS signal (HDMI 2.0b) only support 18 Gbps, but Gigabyte says 8K/60Hz. These two things are mutually incompatible.

Assuming the HDMI 2.1 marketing is correct...

HDMI 2.1b Specification Overview

HDMI 2.1b technology enables end-to-end 8K & 4K solutions, faster refresh rates, and Dynamic HDR support. ✓ Click here to learn more about HDMI 2.1b

www.hdmi.org

HDMI 2.1 Feature - 8K60 / 4K120 Resolution

'HDMI 2.1' '8K', 8KTV, 8k@60, 8K Gaming, 8K Broadcast, 8K NHK, 8K Olympics,, HDMI 2.1b

www.hdmi.org

HDMI 2.1 uses a new "FRL" signal scheme, *but* maintains compatibility with TMDS. So...
Their use of terms is both oddly specific and sorely lacking, leaving it kinda murky as to accuracy/capability.

 

[TheLostSwede]

So absolutely no mention of the CPU socket type or what RAM is supported...

The socket is still AM5 and RAM is expected to be 8000 MHz EXPO, but remains at 5600 MHz base, from what I know.

 

[Zubasa]

The socket is still AM5 and RAM is expected to be 8000 MHz EXPO, but remains at 5600 MHz base, from what I know.

I assume that is because 5600 is still the highest JEDEC spec for DDR5 DIMMs?
At least that is the commonly available speed for JEDEC ram.

 

[TheLostSwede]

I assume that is because 5600 is still the highest JEDEC spec for DDR5 DIMMs?

It's not, JEDEC goes to 8800 now.

JEDEC Updates DDR5 Specification for Increased Security Against Rowhammer Attacks, New DDR5-8800 Reference Speed

JEDEC Solid State Technology Association, the global leader in standards development for the microelectronics industry, today announced publication of the JESD79-5C DDR5 SDRAM standard. This important update to the JEDEC DDR5 SDRAM standard includes features designed to improve reliability and...

www.techpowerup.com

At least that is the commonly available speed for JEDEC ram.

That's true though.

 

[Wirko]

I assume that is because 5600 is still the highest JEDEC spec for DDR5 DIMMs?
At least that is the commonly available speed for JEDEC ram.

Staying within JEDEC specification also means staying at 1.1 volts, so setting the base speed above 5600 wouldn't benefit anyone much.

 

[Makaveli]

Staying within JEDEC specification also means staying at 1.1 volts, so setting the base speed above 5600 wouldn't benefit anyone much.

no users on this site will be running 5600 speeds that is for sure.

 

[regs]

USB4 = 40 Gbps

USB4 superseded USB3. So "USB4" still could mean just USB 3.1 Gen 2 (10 Gbps).

 

[TheLostSwede]

USB4 superseded USB3. So "USB4" still could mean just USB 3.1 Gen 2 (10 Gbps).

No, it can not. USB4 is at a minimum 20 Gbps.
Please read:

USB4 is Coming - Everything You Need to Know

USB4 is the next evolution of the USB standard, but it's quite different from its predecessors as it brings with it support for DisplayPort connectivity, as well as optional PCI-Express and Thunderbolt 3 support. It tries to fix some technical issues, but adds a few of its own, but at least the...

www.techpowerup.com

no users on this site will be running 5600 speeds that is for sure.

There are quite a few with much slower RAM than that, but maybe not with their Ryzen 7000-series CPUs.
Remember that not everyone on here has the latest or even last gen hardware.

 

[Makaveli]

No, it can not. USB4 is at a minimum 20 Gbps.
Please read:

USB4 is Coming - Everything You Need to Know

USB4 is the next evolution of the USB standard, but it's quite different from its predecessors as it brings with it support for DisplayPort connectivity, as well as optional PCI-Express and Thunderbolt 3 support. It tries to fix some technical issues, but adds a few of its own, but at least the...

www.techpowerup.com

There are quite a few with much slower RAM than that, but maybe not with their Ryzen 7000-series CPUs.
Remember that not everyone on here has the latest or even last gen hardware.

This I know was speaking specifically about Ryzen 7000 series users.

 

[Wirko]

no users on this site will be running 5600 speeds that is for sure.

Not many users I guess, but 5600 (only 5200 for Zen 4!) is guaranteed to work. This means there are a few CPUs out there that aren't fully stable at ~6000. Why would AMD set the *base* speed higher and risk a lot of RMAs?