AMD Says Ryzen 9000 Series Won't Beat 7000X3D Series at Gaming

[JustBenching]

^ That. The 5800X3D trades blows with 7600X-7700X and is between 12900K and 13900K (gaming).

No, not really but let's go with it

 

[Godrilla]

If this is true I was wrong the price of Zen 5 should be extremely competitive and lower than traditional zen pricing significantly.

 

[A_macholl]

I'm guessing that you have the E-cores disabled.

I dont think thats the case More screens here

I wouldn't have imagined that game could max out 8 cores, but if so then a X3D CPU is what you need. The 7800X3D is gonna outperform it in that game, and a 7950x3D doesn't anywhere near close to full utilization.

If there is someone who have top xxxxX3D CPU and satisfactory in library i'm willing to send the savemap just to test how it will handle it.

If it really get the work done there will be only one thing to do...

 

[Athlonite]

Not sure what you mean. Threadripper is a different type of processor. Here they are talking about the desktop variants. I'm not sure if AMD will make a threadrippers with the zen5 cores but this is definitely a desktop only CPUs.

From what I heard they're going to be going with AM5 based EPOC cpus instead of Threadripper

 

[Evrsr]

The actual CPU die size itself is pretty small these days and the FPU is a minority of that die size. Here is Zen4 for comparison:

https://www.techpowerup.com/img/WuHAyr6QC7Ch2JCm.jpg

Going to full AVX512 isn't a big deal from a die size perspective. The bigger issue will be feeding that FPU because its going to be incredibly bandwidth intensive to do so at 5Ghz+ and maintaining full clock speed without heat throttling. It can easily gobble up most of the bandwidth available and starve the rest of the core if they also didn't greatly pump up L1 and L2 cache bandwidth.

I think they've said it'll have up to double the L1, L2, and decoder bandwidth vs Zen4 so it appears they've addressed that issue too.

Well see how it ends up. But transistor cost is very important right now, can't really look at die sizes much anymore. Intel seems to now be able to quickly tailor cores to specific markets, which will show up in Lunar and Arrow Lake.

So I would say if Arrow Lake is not late, it has a very good chance of being a competitive product, even if not the top performing product. The new E-cores are also seriously competitive and Intel will be on TSMC 3nm for the CPU tile. Don't think they'll be able to compete with dual chiplet Ryzen on either front but on volume parts I think they have very good chances. (which is what I care about)

 

[Godrilla]

Well see how it ends up. But transistor cost is very important right now, can't really look at die sizes much anymore. Intel seems to now be able to quickly tailor cores to specific markets, which will show up in Lunar and Arrow Lake.

So I would say if Arrow Lake is not late, it has a very good chance of being a competitive product, even if not the top performing product. The new E-cores are also seriously competitive and Intel will be on TSMC 3nm for the CPU tile. Don't think they'll be able to compete with dual chiplet Ryzen on either front but on volume parts I think they have very good chances. (which is what I care about)

Is Intel doubling the e cores when they remove hyperthreading from lineup? If they remove hyperthreading just to be competitive I guess we can call that acceptable.

 

[blkspade]

I dont think thats the case More screens here

View attachment 351539


If there is someone who have top xxxxX3D CPU and satisfactory in library i'm willing to send the savemap just to test how it will handle it.

If it really get the work done there will be only one thing to do...

I do have this game, and a 7950x3D...

 

[Evrsr]

Is Intel doubling the e cores when they remove hyperthreading from lineup? If they remove hyperthreading just to be competitive I guess we can call that acceptable.

No but the Skymont IPC is matching Raptor Lake, so power constrained performance will be very good. No point in adding tons of cores if they will be thermal or power throttling.

Same for the P-cores, perf/power is 5% better than with HT. Perf/power/area improves 15%, which means cheaper for us too.

 

[piffdaddy]

5800XT is up to 12% faster compared to 13600kf.

So yeah, Amd is seriously killing it.

Pair then all with a much faster GPU and see what happens. Those 5800xt and whatever else are absolutely not faster

 

[vacsati]

This whole new AM5 serie is quite a disappointment and it seems it wont be much better.

 

[wheresmycar]

This whole new AM5 serie is quite a disappointment and it seems it wont be much better.

tbf, for years now other than shifting a gear up with 6-core mainstream consumer processors, every Next-Gen offering has been disappointing. But thats normal. You don't upgrade every Gen so the small increase in performance is welcome as long as FWD Gen/s eventually add up to 50%+ when its time to upgrade. For me the current Gen-2-Gen performance uplift trajectory is well received. I'm usually more concerned about price for the next big thing when the time calls for it.

I'm curious though, based on your individual requirements why is AM5 a disappointment for you?

 

[AusWolf]

tbf, for years now other than shifting a gear up with 6-core mainstream consumer processors, every Next-Gen offering has been disappointing. But thats normal. You don't upgrade every Gen so the small increase in performance is welcome as long as FWD Gen/s eventually add up to 50%+ when its time to upgrade. For me the current Gen-2-Gen performance uplift trajectory is well received. I'm usually more concerned about price for the next big thing when the time calls for it.

Same.

@vacsati - Knowing that the next gen is only marginally better than what you already own should make you happy, knowing that you won't have to spend on upgrades for another 2-3 years.

 

[wheresmycar]

@vacsati - Knowing that the next gen is only marginally better than what you already own should make you happy, knowing that you won't have to spend on upgrades for another 2-3 years.

exactly! Maybe vacsati pulled off a x3 4090 multi-SLI bridge paired with a 1000hz gaming display and needs more compute power to fill the vacuum... or perhaps hes a multi-threaded workload fashion designer and needs faster threading support for his sewing machine hehe. For the vast majority of us, modern day compute performance stemming from current Gen CPUs is more than plenty hence theres no room for disappointment unless perceivable/special circumstances apply. I'm still running previous Gen hardware with hopes of bagging a superior GPU to unleash my CPUs full potential (in some of the bigger titles).

 

[AusWolf]

exactly! Maybe vacsati pulled off a x3 4090 multi-SLI bridge paired with a 1000hz gaming display and needs more compute power to fill the vacuum... or perhaps hes a multi-threaded workload fashion designer and needs faster threading support for his sewing machine hehe. For the vast majority of us, modern day compute performance stemming from current Gen CPUs is more than plenty hence theres no room for disappointment unless perceivable/special circumstances apply. I'm still running previous Gen hardware with hopes of bagging a superior GPU to unleash my CPUs full potential (in some of the bigger titles).

I made the switch to Zen 4, but not because it made sense. I was just curious. But I'm 99% sure that I'll skip Zen 5, and maybe Zen 6 as well (we'll see how it ends up).
As for GPUs, I had a 7800 XT, but sold it to save for summer holidays. As weird as it sounds, I'll be fine with a 6500 XT until Blackwell and RDNA 4 come out. And then, same as with CPUs, no upgrade for 2-3 gens.

 

[R0H1T]

I heard they're going to be going with AM5 based EPOC cpus instead of Threadripper

You sure that wasn't MLID on cheap weed

 

[tussinman]

tbf, for years now other than shifting a gear up with 6-core mainstream consumer processors, every Next-Gen offering has been disappointing. But thats normal. You don't upgrade every Gen so the small increase in performance is welcome as long as FWD Gen/s eventually add up to 50%+ when its time to upgrade. For me the current Gen-2-Gen performance uplift trajectory is well received. I'm usually more concerned about price for the next big thing when the time calls for it.

True. Almost everyone I play with skips a generation. Have 2 guys on lga1200 that will probably make the jump to arrow lake. Everyone I know on Zen 3 skipped Zen 4.

Obviously, this doesn't apply to enthusiast, but they usually just sell the old setup while it still has good value, and it pays for a good chunk of the new system.

 

[Max(IT)]

Is “gaming performance “ still a matter, CPU wise ? Sure if you are benchmarking at 1080P with a 4090, but what about real world scenarios?

5800XT is up to 12% faster compared to 13600kf.

So yeah, Amd is seriously killing it.

Except this is just marketing BS altready highlighted even by AMD fanboys on Techspot

True. Almost everyone I play with skips a generation. Have 2 guys on lga1200 that will probably make the jump to arrow lake. Everyone I know on Zen 3 skipped Zen 4.

Obviously, this doesn't apply to enthusiast, but they usually just sell the old setup while it still has good value, and it pays for a good chunk of the new system.

Considering the slow advances, I think that even enthusiasts could skip two generations on the CPU itself, focusing on GPU instead

 

[Super XP]

This happened last gen too. Nothing new here,

Is “gaming performance “ still a matter, CPU wise ? Sure if you are benchmarking at 1080P with a 4090, but what about real world scenarios?


Except this is just marketing BS altready highlighted even by AMD fanboys on Techspot


Considering the slow advances, I think that even enthusiasts could skip two generations on the CPU itself, focusing on GPU instead

Marketing BS goes both ways. Intel, Nvidia, AMD are guilty of it.

 

[FeelinFroggy]

I think that both AMD and Intel make great CPUs. Honestly, if you use your PC to game then I'd only recommend a x3d chip. They are just that much better. Will be interesting what Intel's eventual response will be.

 

[Launcestonian]

I think that both AMD and Intel make great CPUs. Honestly, if you use your PC to game then I'd only recommend a x3d chip. They are just that much better. Will be interesting what Intel's eventual response will be.

The resolution being played at comes into it as well, if you look at the review on here for 7800X3D, then at 4K the difference between a lowly 7600X & it, is only 5.5-6%. Also if your topping out your monitor's refresh rate at say for example 165Hz, then it's hardly worth the upgrade to X3D chip.

 

[FeelinFroggy]

The resolution being played at comes into it as well, if you look at the review on here for 7800X3D, then at 4K the difference between a lowly 7600X & it, is only 5.5-6%. Also if your topping out your monitor's refresh rate at say for example 165Hz, then it's hardly worth the upgrade to X3D chip.

Yeah at 4k the bottleneck is on the GPU. But it help with minimum frame rates as well. But not everyone plays 4k and few GPUs are released all the time. My last CPU I changed the GPU 4 times. And most AAA games you won’t max out your monitor refresh rate on ultra settings.

In the end, they dont cost anymore so it’s a no brainer for a gamer. Even the $200 5700x3D will be a great chip for the next several years. Sure, the platform is old, but you don’t need to upgrade your CPU very often.

My advice for anyone who uses their rig just to game and wants a new CPU should either wait for the new x3d or buy one that is available.

 

[AusWolf]

Yeah at 4k the bottleneck is on the GPU. But it help with minimum frame rates as well.

Why is everyone so obsessed with minimum frame rates? Like 1% and 0.1% lows. If my 0.1% is crap, that means the game runs beautifully 99.9% of the time, right? If I get one small hitch in every half hour while the game puts some new part of the map into my RAM, I couldn't care less.

 

[Deleted member 223428]

Why is everyone so obsessed with minimum frame rates? Like 1% and 0.1% lows. If my 0.1% is crap, that means the game runs beautifully 99.9% of the time, right? If I get one small hitch in every half hour while the game puts some new part of the map into my RAM, I couldn't care less.

Because in comparison to most of the enthusiasts that hang out here, you have extremely low standards. You don't care about frame rate, frame time, refresh rate, 1%, .1% lows, memory speeds, clock speeds, high end GPUs, overclocking, CPU tuning, or memory tuning. You've made it exceptionally clear that you don't. Multiple times.

There's nothing wrong with that, but why can't you understand that there are people here who do?

 

[AusWolf]

Because in comparison to most of the enthusiasts that hang out here, you have extremely low standards. You don't care about frame rate, frame time, refresh rate, 1%, .1% lows, memory speeds, clock speeds, high end GPUs, overclocking, CPU tuning, or memory tuning. You've made it exceptionally clear that you don't. Multiple times.

There's nothing wrong with that, but why can't you understand that there are people here who do?

It's not because I don't care, but because I literally don't see the difference. I'm trying to understand why things that I can't see are so important for some. Is that a bad thing?

Edit: Of course I want my PC to perform optimally and my games to run well, like any of us. But there are some things that seem way too extreme to me that other people swear by. I'm just curious why.

 

[Lew Zealand]

True. Almost everyone I play with skips a generation. Have 2 guys on lga1200 that will probably make the jump to arrow lake. Everyone I know on Zen 3 skipped Zen 4.

Obviously, this doesn't apply to enthusiast, but they usually just sell the old setup while it still has good value, and it pays for a good chunk of the new system.

Huh. Now that I think of it, that's just what I've done. Zen and Zen+ on the 3 machines in the house. No Zen 2 but now about to be all Zen 3 (including a 4th one I made from leftover parts). There will be no Zen 4 and frankly unless the 5700X3D and 5800X3D suddenly start to tank in games, I may not even go Zen 5. We'll see though.

Why is everyone so obsessed with minimum frame rates? Like 1% and 0.1% lows. If my 0.1% is crap, that means the game runs beautifully 99.9% of the time, right? If I get one small hitch in every half hour while the game puts some new part of the map into my RAM, I couldn't care less.

OK to some extent it's the games that I play (Hogwarts Legacy, Minecraft w/long draw distance + LOD) but 1% lows are merely "good" with my Zen3X3Ds. If it was a frame drop or stutter once a minute (in certain parts of the map) that would be better but even with a 5600 OC to 4.7, CPU-intensive parts of both those games drop a decent number of frames. It can be jarring.

Can I play those with lower spec CPUs? Yes, I play HL on an i7-6700K and 3050-6GB from time to time, it's still fun. Are the improved frametimes on the X3Ds worth it? Also yes.