Top AMD RDNA4 Part Could Offer RX 7900 XTX Performance at Half its Price and Lower Power

[Caring1]

Sigh. I shouldn't need to literally go on YT type in their names to give you the search results, but alas. Again, they aren't phony, their videos are entertaining and of high informational value, but you can't deny the thumbnail drama isn't there. There's nothing wrong with that, it's just a smart way to get people to click on the video. Things like "50% of all 4090 will end up in trash", "top reason not to buy AMD 7900 series GPU", "three melted 4090 melted connectors. This is toxic" (lol at the gas mask at the thumbnail of that one) and "4090 connectors are melting like chocolate", it's really just clickbait drama to draw in people to watch an actually good video. I'm not even gonna post the images because you can go there and look those up yourself

So where's the lie then, everything they said is in their videos. sigh.

 

[AusWolf]

Repeat that enough times and you may come to believe that yourself. People at large like money and performance per dollar far more than bragging rights, there's a reason the xx60-tier cards are historically the most popular amongst Steam users.

The 4090 is sold by marketing and reviews calling it the fastest card available. Its performance per dollar is nowhere to be seen compared to literally anything else. It's the worst value Nvidia has ever shoved down on people's throats. So yeah, bragging rights.

The x50, x60 and x70 series are historically popular because they've historically been on the top of this chart, not on the bottom, within a stone's throw to the 4090.

 

[the54thvoid]

@SailorMan-PT - please post in English, or your next posts will be removed. This is an English speaking forum, thank you.

Bitte auf Englisch posten.

 

[Dr. Dro]

The 4090 is sold by marketing and reviews calling it the fastest card available. Its performance per dollar is nowhere to be seen compared to literally anything else. It's the worst value Nvidia has ever shoved down on people's throats. So yeah, bragging rights.

View attachment 354414

The x50, x60 and x70 series are historically popular because they've historically been on the top of this chart, not on the bottom, within a stone's throw to the 4090.

However, the 4090 is the fastest and most feature-complete card by a quite significant margin. Looking at a chart like this can be misleading if you laser focus on relative performance per dollar, halo cards tend to be inflated (this has always been the case). The best value purchases are the cards that are in the 75-110% range relative to the GRE, which I think is probably the best one at a purely performance standpoint.

 

[AusWolf]

However, the 4090 is the fastest and most feature-complete card by a quite significant margin. Looking at a chart like this can be misleading if you laser focus on relative performance per dollar, halo cards tend to be inflated (this has always been the case). The best value purchases are the cards that are in the 75-110% range relative to the GRE, which I think is probably the best one at a purely performance standpoint.

How is it more "feature complete" than any other 40-series card? How is being "feature complete" important when talking about value?

As for being the fastest, it is true, but at what cost? It's not just ultra expensive, ultra power hungry, but as soon as the 5090 is out, it'll drop its value like a rock. It is only for people who's got lots of spare cash to blow and don't care about value at all. For "normal folks" like me (that is, casual, or home gamers), a 4080 Super or 7900 XTX is a much better buy.

I don't think a card needs to be within any percent to the GRE. I think it needs to be as close to the top as possible, as long as it meets the performance level one needs. For example, a 6600 is a great buy, good value card, but only if its performance is enough for the targeted resolution, detail level and frame rate.

 

[JWNoctis]

How is it more "feature complete" than any other 40-series card? How is being "feature complete" important when talking about value?

As for being the fastest, it is true, but at what cost? It's not just ultra expensive, ultra power hungry, but as soon as the 5090 is out, it'll drop its value like a rock. It is only for people who's got lots of spare cash to blow and don't care about value at all. For "normal folks" like me (that is, casual, or home gamers), a 4080 Super or 7900 XTX is a much better buy.

I don't think a card needs to be within any percent to the GRE. I think it needs to be as close to the top as possible, as long as it meets the performance level one needs. For example, a 6600 is a great buy, good value card, but only if its performance is enough for the targeted resolution, detail level and frame rate.

By the same logic, I'd almost say that the best overall value versus performance is actually somewhere around 4070, with or without Ti and/or the Super suffix. Those are the first cards with more than 8GB of VRAM and more-or-less non-gimped memory controller and PCIe bandwidth, and still fast enough for anything you can currently throw at it. Anything above gets expensive fast.

It might also be useful to recall that a 4090 should not lose much performance when tuned down to 300W, and is still much cheaper than an RTX 6000 Ada, for those who need it - and of course, with the money to buy that. Though if one's talking about feature-completeness on the AD102 silicon, it probably should be the RTX 6000 Ada, compared to which the 4090 is cut down the same way a 4080 non-Super was. The 4080 Super is supposedly a more-or-less complete AD103, with just a few video decoders and encoders fused out of use.

Back on the topic, if AMD really does pulls a rabbit out of the figurative hat, I guess they'd keep NVIDIA more honest, and make things better for customers of both companies.

 

[AusWolf]

By the same logic, I'd almost say that the best overall value versus performance is actually somewhere around 4070, with or without Ti and/or the Super suffix. Those are the first cards with more than 8GB of VRAM and more-or-less non-gimped memory controller and PCIe bandwidth, and still fast enough for anything you can currently throw at it. Anything above gets expensive fast.

I agree. As it was said before, x50 to x70 is where the biggest value usually is. It's only that both the 7600 and the 4060 are overpriced, and offer nothing extra this time around.

It might also be useful to recall that a 4090 should not lose much performance when tuned down to 300W, and is still much cheaper than an RTX 6000 Ada, for those who need it - and of course, with the money to buy that. Though if one's talking about feature-completeness on the AD102 silicon, it probably should be the RTX 6000 Ada, compared to which the 4090 is cut down the same way a 4080 non-Super was. The 4080 Super is supposedly a more-or-less complete AD103, with just a few video decoders and encoders fused out of use.

Tuning is not an argument for a GPU - you can do the same with literally every other card. I had a 7800 XT that scaled down beautifully with a -10% power limit, losing only 2-3% performance. I didn't even have to undervolt it.

Back on the topic, if AMD really does pulls a rabbit out of the figurative hat, I guess they'd keep NVIDIA more honest, and make things better for customers of both companies.

Is that the good old "please AMD, be competitive so that we can buy cheap Nvidia cards again" argument? If so, that's just... No. One needs to put one's money where one's mouth is, otherwise the Nvidia monopoly will continue. Besides, AMD will not start a price war as long as GPUs are selling for current prices, and as long as TSMC charges an arm and leg for wafers on the most advanced nodes.

Personally, I'm refusing to buy an Nvidia card as long as they're all priced out of earth's atmosphere (that is, they're all £50-100 more expensive than the competing AMD product), and since I recently sold my 7800 XT, I'll almost definitely be looking at big Navi 4.

 

[JWNoctis]

Is that the good old "please AMD, be competitive so that we can buy cheap Nvidia cards again" argument? If so, that's just... No. One needs to put one's money where one's mouth is, otherwise the Nvidia monopoly will continue. Besides, AMD will not start a price war as long as GPUs are selling for current prices, and as long as TSMC charges an arm and leg for wafers on the most advanced nodes.

Personally, I'm refusing to buy an Nvidia card as long as they're all priced out of earth's atmosphere (that is, they're all £50-100 more expensive than the competing AMD product), and since I recently sold my 7800 XT, I'll almost definitely be looking at big Navi 4.

I could only wish I would not have to make that argument much longer.

Right now AMD offerings are not really competitive when GPU compute is involved. I'd easily go over to anyone offering a more cost-effective product.

 

[AusWolf]

I could only wish I would not have to make that argument much longer.

Right now AMD offerings are not really competitive when GPU compute is involved. I'd easily go over to anyone offering a more cost-effective product.

At the end of the day, you've got to buy the GPU that offers the most value for your needs. If it's Nvidia, it's Nvidia, if it's AMD, then it's AMD. But wishing for one company to invest in making better products and then offer them at a low price only so that you can buy from the competition cheaper seems disingenuous to me. Sorry.

 

[JWNoctis]

At the end of the day, you've got to buy the GPU that offers the most value for your needs. If it's Nvidia, it's Nvidia, if it's AMD, then it's AMD. But wishing for one company to invest in making better products and then offer them at a low price only so that you can buy from the competition cheaper seems disingenuous to me. Sorry.

That would be, and it's not quite what I meant - or focus, as more reasonable prices from both sides is one of the things that would be expected to happen with healthier competition going on. I was more worried about things slowing down, like what happened in CPU space when AMD was stuck with Bulldozer.

Eh, guess that came out wrong. My apologies about that.

 

[kapone32]

Repeat that enough times and you may come to believe that yourself. People at large like money and performance per dollar far more than bragging rights, there's a reason the xx60-tier cards are historically the most popular amongst Steam users.

Mind you, it's weird I have to point this out but like, the folks behind NorthridgeFix, NorthwestRepair and similar channels, they may be brilliant technicians, but the key takeaway is that they're still YouTubers and as such, they are after views. It gets people to click when they make thumbnails with insane statements like "The 4090 has a chronic problem AND YOUR CARD WILL DIE!", the only issue with that statement is that it's hyperbole at best and a lie at worst. But it gets you to click on their video, which to their defense, is usually very informative and high quality - the important factor is that it is good for their business (both the channel and new customers for the repair shop). See it for what it is, entertainment value first, informational value second.

"People at large like money and performance per dollar far more than bragging rights," This is your statement. A 4090 is more than double what I would pay for a 7900XTX so thanks for supporting that argument. I saw you mentioned the 4060 and that is funny because the cost of the 4060 influences people to just get a Steam Deck for Gaming.

Sigh. I shouldn't need to literally go on YT type in their names to give you the search results, but alas. Again, they aren't phony, their videos are entertaining and of high informational value, but you can't deny the thumbnail drama isn't there. There's nothing wrong with that, it's just a smart way to get people to click on the video. Things like "50% of all 4090 will end up in trash", "top reason not to buy AMD 7900 series GPU", "three melted 4090 melted connectors. This is toxic" (lol at the gas mask at the thumbnail of that one) and "4090 connectors are melting like chocolate", it's really just clickbait drama to draw in people to watch an actually good video. I'm not even gonna post the images because you can go there and look those up yourself

Yep because everyone making repair videos on Youtube are shills. You are showing yourself though because North West Repair actually prefers Nvidia cards over AMD and says as much in most of his videos. It is sad that you have to make these claims when the Company you support is in a leadership position. I guess the statements by Nvidia, Intel and MB vendors were just propaganda. I also don't understand how you are so happy to insert Nvidia in an AMD speculation post.

 

[Dr. Dro]

"People at large like money and performance per dollar far more than bragging rights," This is your statement. A 4090 is more than double what I would pay for a 7900XTX so thanks for supporting that argument. I saw you mentioned the 4060 and that is funny because the cost of the 4060 influences people to just get a Steam Deck for Gaming.


Yep because everyone making repair videos on Youtube are shills. You are showing yourself though because North West Repair actually prefers Nvidia cards over AMD and says as much in most of his videos. It is sad that you have to make these claims when the Company you support is in a leadership position. I guess the statements by Nvidia, Intel and MB vendors were just propaganda. I also don't understand how you are so happy to insert Nvidia in an AMD speculation post.

Yes, a 4090 is more expensive than a 7900 XTX, because the 4090 is faster and in high demand, the 7900 XTX... is not. Furthermore, I never said they were shills. However, as with any YouTuber, they want views, and as such are prone to making baity titles to get clicks.

 

[AusWolf]

Yes, a 4090 is more expensive than a 7900 XTX, because the 4090 is faster and in high demand, the 7900 XTX... is not.

My only problem is that it's not proportionately faster. If it was $1200-1250 while the 7900 XTX is $900-950, I wouldn't have a problem with it, although personally, I consider even that way too much for a graphics card.

 

[kapone32]

Yes, a 4090 is more expensive than a 7900 XTX, because the 4090 is faster and in high demand, the 7900 XTX... is not. Furthermore, I never said they were shills. However, as with any YouTuber, they want views, and as such are prone to making baity titles to get clicks.

Prices have come down by $100 for 7900XTX. If what you are saying was true it would have been even more drastic. The fact that a 4090 is over $2000 where I live still matters to people.

 

[Dr. Dro]

My only problem is that it's not proportionately faster. If it was $1200-1250 while the 7900 XTX is $900-950, I wouldn't have a problem with it, although personally, I consider even that way too much for a graphics card.

This has never been the case, though. No matter the brand or generation, or even if you take AMD's own current lineup to serve as an example, the 7900 XTX is twice as expensive as a 7800 XT, but it is nowhere near twice as fast. End of the day, NV is a business and they charge what they want, especially if the customers are willing to pay for it (they are)

 

[Super Firm Tofu]

Prices have come down by $100 for 7900XTX. If what you are saying was true it would have been even more drastic. The fact that a 4090 is over $2000 where I live still matters to people.

Of course it matters - the prices are still high on the 4090 because of demand. If they weren't selling they'd drop the price. Just like your 7900XTX example: If it's not selling, it gets a discount.

An NVIDIA example of this was the 4080. The sales weren't where NVIDIA wanted them to be so the 4080S was released with a $200 discount. Funny thing is, the 4080S is selling above that because people want them.

 

[AusWolf]

This has never been the case, though. No matter the brand or generation, or even if you take AMD's own current lineup to serve as an example, the 7900 XTX is twice as expensive as a 7800 XT, but it is nowhere near twice as fast. End of the day, NV is a business and they charge what they want, especially if the customers are willing to pay for it (they are)

Does that mean that my jaw has to drop in front of the 4090's performance with no consideration towards its price or power consumption? Sorry, not gonna happen.

Since you mentioned it, even the 7900 XTX is way above the limit of what I consider a sensible price for a GPU. That's why I'm not affected by AMD's decision of not making a halo RDNA 4 GPU. If they can pull off a decent midrange card, I'm game.

 

[ARF]

Does that mean that my jaw has to drop in front of the 4090's performance with no consideration towards its price or power consumption?

It has two more jaw-dropping features - gigantic size (that fits only in some PC cases) and a melting connector

 

[AusWolf]

It has two more jaw-dropping features - gigantic size (that fits only in some PC cases) and a melting connector

Well, that's truly unique, I give you that.

 

[kapone32]

Of course it matters - the prices are still high on the 4090 because of demand. If they weren't selling they'd drop the price. Just like your 7900XTX example: If it's not selling, it gets a discount.

An NVIDIA example of this was the 4080. The sales weren't where NVIDIA wanted them to be so the 4080S was released with a $200 discount. Funny thing is, the 4080S is selling above that because people want them.

For me where I live the price increase came down to Distributor Greed. The 4090 is s a popular GPU but the price is prohibitive.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Does that mean that my jaw has to drop in front of the 4090's performance with no consideration towards its price or power consumption? Sorry, not gonna happen.

Since you mentioned it, even the 7900 XTX is way above the limit of what I consider a sensible price for a GPU. That's why I'm not affected by AMD's decision of not making a halo RDNA 4 GPU. If they can pull off a decent midrange card, I'm game.

The days of a $649 flagship are well past us, unfortunately. The pandemic was likely the last nail in that coffin. We're in agreement though - I'm game for a solid midranger. If they manage to beat the RTX 4080 with this next midranger, even better. I'll buy one as a gesture of goodwill.

 

[AusWolf]

The days of a $649 flagship are well past us, unfortunately. The pandemic was likely the last nail in that coffin. We're in agreement though - I'm game for a solid midranger. If they manage to beat the RTX 4080 with this next midranger, even better. I'll buy one as a gesture of goodwill.

Yep, those days have passed. Luckily, so have the days when you needed high-end hardware for acceptable frame rates at 1080p or 1440p.

 

[ARF]

The days of a $649 flagship are well past us

Radeon RX 6800 XT was only 5-10% short of RX 6900 XT, so I don't think these days are gone.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Radeon RX 6800 XT was only 5-10% short of RX 6900 XT, so I don't think these days are gone.

The 6800 XT is not a flagship and it is also four years old. The RTX 3080 had a similarly low MSRP, reality was different altogether.

 

[ARF]

The 6800 XT is not a flagship

If it has flagship or very near flagship performance, it is a lite version of the flagship.