• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Editorial AMD is Becoming a Software Company. Here's the Plan

Joined
Jan 23, 2011
Messages
583 (0.12/day)
Location
St. Louis, MO
System Name Desktop
Processor AMD Ryzen 7800X3D
Motherboard MSI X670E MEG ACE
Cooling Corsair XC7 Block / Corsair XG7 Block EK 360PE Radiator EK 120XE Radiator 8x EK Vadar Furious Fans
Memory 64GB TeamGroup T-Create Expert DDR5-6000
Video Card(s) MSI RTX 4090 Gaming X Trio
Storage 1TB WD Black SN850 / 4TB Inland Premium / 8TB WD Black HDD
Display(s) Alienware AW3821DW / ASUS TUF VG279QM
Case Lian-Li Dynamic 011 XL ROG
Audio Device(s) Razer Nommo Pro Speakers / Creative AE-9 w/ Audio-Technica ATH-R70X
Power Supply EVGA P2 1200W Platinum
Mouse Razer Viper, Logitech G600
Keyboard Razer Huntsman Elite
This honestly feels like something that should have started the moment AMD acquired ATI. And then they wasted that momentum on weird initiatives like pushing APUs as the “future of heterogeneous computing” and making GPUs with massive compute potential (higher than that of NVIDIA at the time), but with absolutely no software stack to even support it. It’s good that they finally woken up to the reality that apart from console chips the Radeon division was essentially a dead weight stuck in limbo for a decade now, but they have to actually commit to transforming themselves this time around and prepare contingencies other than banking heavily on the AI fad.
I was thinking the same thing after reading this. I remember seeing all the Fuzion is Future marketing and there were big promises made then as well. I really hope they do make a turnaround in this venture. They have always had impressive hardware specs on paper, but the implementation has seemed to always miss the mark. The hardware isn't as good if there isn't the software ecosystem around to support it.

The last AMD products I owned were the Fury X/Nano. I have tried some of their newer GPUs, but I just haven't had the best luck with them. When using DVDFab for video work, it seems that CUDA is better optimized than AMD APP.

Their All In Wonder products were great back in the day, the software seemed to function really well. I am surprised they haven't done something like an AppleTV or a Nvidia Shield product.
 
Joined
Nov 20, 2021
Messages
118 (0.11/day)
Not gonna lie, I busted out laughing when I read the title because AMD becoming a software company? Wish them the best of luck because they gonna need it.

The quality of their software has much improved over the years and damn near on par. However, they are far behind when it comes to features and capabilities. Probably behind Intel when it comes to software.
 
Joined
May 19, 2011
Messages
107 (0.02/day)
With all the big customers are becoming their own semiconductor engineers, I’d say this ship has sailed… this would have been the move to make 10 years ago at the latest.
 
Joined
Jul 30, 2019
Messages
3,282 (1.69/day)
System Name Still not a thread ripper but pretty good.
Processor Ryzen 9 7950x, Thermal Grizzly AM5 Offset Mounting Kit, Thermal Grizzly Extreme Paste
Motherboard ASRock B650 LiveMixer (BIOS/UEFI version P3.08, AGESA 1.2.0.2)
Cooling EK-Quantum Velocity, EK-Quantum Reflection PC-O11, D5 PWM, EK-CoolStream PE 360, XSPC TX360
Memory Micron DDR5-5600 ECC Unbuffered Memory (2 sticks, 64GB, MTC20C2085S1EC56BD1) + JONSBO NF-1
Video Card(s) XFX Radeon RX 5700 & EK-Quantum Vector Radeon RX 5700 +XT & Backplate
Storage Samsung 4TB 980 PRO, 2 x Optane 905p 1.5TB (striped), AMD Radeon RAMDisk
Display(s) 2 x 4K LG 27UL600-W (and HUANUO Dual Monitor Mount)
Case Lian Li PC-O11 Dynamic Black (original model)
Audio Device(s) Corsair Commander Pro for Fans, RGB, & Temp Sensors (x4)
Power Supply Corsair RM750x
Mouse Logitech M575
Keyboard Corsair Strafe RGB MK.2
Software Windows 10 Professional (64bit)
Benchmark Scores RIP Ryzen 9 5950x, ASRock X570 Taichi (v1.06), 128GB Micron DDR4-3200 ECC UDIMM (18ASF4G72AZ-3G2F1)
Wasn't already a software company? They did some programs and all failed along the way. The AMD Radeon ramdisk and the the AMD Radeon ProRender come to mind.
The ram disk is still sold to unlock the default limits. I'm using it currently. Too bad they don't provide it as a bonus with each CPU sold.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2019
Messages
12,340 (5.76/day)
Location
Midlands, UK
System Name Nebulon B
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard MSi PRO B650M-A WiFi
Cooling be quiet! Dark Rock 4
Memory 2x 24 GB Corsair Vengeance DDR5-4800
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon RX 6750 XT 12 GB
Storage 2 TB Corsair MP600 GS, 2 TB Corsair MP600 R2
Display(s) Dell S3422DWG, 7" Waveshare touchscreen
Case Kolink Citadel Mesh black
Audio Device(s) Logitech Z333 2.1 speakers, AKG Y50 headphones
Power Supply Seasonic Prime GX-750
Mouse Logitech MX Master 2S
Keyboard Logitech G413 SE
Software Bazzite (Fedora Linux) KDE
What a bummer...
1720449030140.png


I guess the days of hardware-agnostic software are coming to an end.
 
Joined
Jan 18, 2020
Messages
819 (0.46/day)
My suggestion, if AMD want to match Nvidia commercially, is that they need to up the bullshit factor, create some features Nvidia doesn't have. All the better if there's actually a practical advantage to them, that doesn't really matter... Or it hasn't for Nvidia anyway. AMD products are good largely. Their marketing and brand image is nowhere near as good as Nvidia though. Even if the stock trades at 200+ P/E ratio somehow.

The problem is that Nvidia is always dictating the sales narrative on the front foot, be it from RTX, Upscaling with DLSS, through the Cyrpto Mining boom and on to AI GPUs for LLMs being our technological savior. A lot of what they're pushing is very overhyped, just used to up their margins and sell inferior product, or creating features that are largely useless but give them an advantage in some way. Few reviewers are prepared to call a spade a spade when they release something like the 4060 series.
 
Joined
Jul 30, 2019
Messages
3,282 (1.69/day)
System Name Still not a thread ripper but pretty good.
Processor Ryzen 9 7950x, Thermal Grizzly AM5 Offset Mounting Kit, Thermal Grizzly Extreme Paste
Motherboard ASRock B650 LiveMixer (BIOS/UEFI version P3.08, AGESA 1.2.0.2)
Cooling EK-Quantum Velocity, EK-Quantum Reflection PC-O11, D5 PWM, EK-CoolStream PE 360, XSPC TX360
Memory Micron DDR5-5600 ECC Unbuffered Memory (2 sticks, 64GB, MTC20C2085S1EC56BD1) + JONSBO NF-1
Video Card(s) XFX Radeon RX 5700 & EK-Quantum Vector Radeon RX 5700 +XT & Backplate
Storage Samsung 4TB 980 PRO, 2 x Optane 905p 1.5TB (striped), AMD Radeon RAMDisk
Display(s) 2 x 4K LG 27UL600-W (and HUANUO Dual Monitor Mount)
Case Lian Li PC-O11 Dynamic Black (original model)
Audio Device(s) Corsair Commander Pro for Fans, RGB, & Temp Sensors (x4)
Power Supply Corsair RM750x
Mouse Logitech M575
Keyboard Corsair Strafe RGB MK.2
Software Windows 10 Professional (64bit)
Benchmark Scores RIP Ryzen 9 5950x, ASRock X570 Taichi (v1.06), 128GB Micron DDR4-3200 ECC UDIMM (18ASF4G72AZ-3G2F1)
I hope this means they will fix Ryzen Master :rolleyes: and ensure high quality UEFI.
 

Ruru

S.T.A.R.S.
Joined
Dec 16, 2012
Messages
12,766 (2.93/day)
Location
Jyväskylä, Finland
System Name 4K-gaming / media-PC
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X / Intel Core i7-6700K
Motherboard Asus ROG Crosshair VII Hero / Asus Z170-A
Cooling Arctic Freezer 50 / Thermaltake Contac 21
Memory 32GB DDR4-3466 / 16GB DDR4-3000
Video Card(s) RTX 3080 10GB / RX 6700 XT
Storage 3.3TB of SSDs / several small SSDs
Display(s) 27" 4K120 IPS + 32" 4K60 IPS + 24" 1080p60
Case Corsair 4000D AF White / DeepCool CC560 WH
Audio Device(s) Asus TUF H3 Wireless / Corsair HS35
Power Supply EVGA G2 750W / Fractal ION Gold 550W
Mouse Logitech MX518 / Logitech G400s
Keyboard Roccat Vulcan 121 AIMO / NOS C450 Mini Pro
VR HMD Oculus Rift CV1
Software Windows 11 Pro / Windows 11 Pro
Benchmark Scores They run Crysis
They should not have mentioned Tesla here.

My bet? They will flop hard, it is too late.

AI? We all know it will not take off. It is a marketing tool, nothing else.
This, this and this. Feels already that AI is a more common in marketing than gaming. :laugh:
 
Joined
Apr 2, 2011
Messages
2,811 (0.56/day)
So...does anyone else remember that wonderful time in the past where hardware was constantly moving forward, and Moore's law was easy to harness as a cheap way to have shortcomings disappear beneath a pile of raw computational horsepower?

Does anybody else remember when everything started to slow down? Yes, the Intel shenanigans with 4 core chips for a decade was entirely because they didn't have AMD to compete against, but once that was sorted we got back to generational improvements not of 30-50% (read: peak in the 90's and early 00's), but of 7-13%. Anybody else remember when the concept of a generational refresh was something absolutely silly, because nobody would buy another $150 card if it basically only showed minor improvements. Yeah, I am old enough to remember all of that and team Blue, Red, and Green all claiming that we were reaching near peak hardware performance with generational improvements basically being decreased to minor changes.


So what are all three of the teams doing? Well, those old enough should recognize this as a netburst moment. What I mean by that is that instead of pursuing an ever less possible improvement in performance you can write entirely new rules. Just like Musk claims that Tesla should be viewed as a software company...(snicker)...if AMD, Intel, and Nvidia all become software purveyors they don't have to live and die on improvements in tangible things. They can claim something like a 30% increase in performance in their latest release, and in reality just have code optimization cover the entirety of their flaws to get that magical performance boost.

Let me offer a parallel. Warframe is a game made by Digital Extremes. Through decades of spaghetti code, at one point they were supporting all the way back to 32 bit windows xp. Kinda nuts, but one day they decided they needed modern instruction sets...and stopped supporting basically everything before Sandybridge and Bulldozer. This allowed them to cull the code base, and increase performance...but realistically it was improving the performance to a piece of software not bogged down with a decades old restriction set.


What truly frightens me though is the future of FPGAs and mismarketing. Let me state that Nvidia has specific processing for ray tracing....right? You've also got AI accelerators. Then you can design a bunch of other unique things...and claim how special you are. If you want to do this on a budget you get a big old FPGA and keep half a dozen images for accelerators...flashing them as needed to make the ultimate processor and co-processor combination. This then gets down to literally being software companies running relatively commodity hardware...at which point instead of companies trying to improve performance we'll be back to who can stick the biggest FPGA on, or who has the one ASIC image to flash to your shiny new FPGA. I don't even want to read all of the AI buzz word garbage...because it by definition is a fad. If you believe that anybody is going to sell you a consumer viable priced system to effectively allow reasonably quick local instances of LLMs then you didn't read that recent article where China was buying H20's from Nvidia for $12,000 each.
 
Joined
Feb 18, 2005
Messages
5,847 (0.81/day)
Location
Ikenai borderline!
System Name Firelance.
Processor Threadripper 3960X
Motherboard ROG Strix TRX40-E Gaming
Cooling IceGem 360 + 6x Arctic Cooling P12
Memory 8x 16GB Patriot Viper DDR4-3200 CL16
Video Card(s) MSI GeForce RTX 4060 Ti Ventus 2X OC
Storage 2TB WD SN850X (boot), 4TB Crucial P3 (data)
Display(s) 3x AOC Q32E2N (32" 2560x1440 75Hz)
Case Enthoo Pro II Server Edition (Closed Panel) + 6 fans
Power Supply Fractal Design Ion+ 2 Platinum 760W
Mouse Logitech G602
Keyboard Razer Pro Type Ultra
Software Windows 10 Professional x64
This. Then again, NOT starting on it is a sure fire way to leave the building.
Yeah it's very much a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario. My biggest fear is that 2029 rolls around, AMD has finally got some decent software, the AI bubble bursts, all the software engineers get let go and the software gets outsourced, and the company squanders the goodwill they managed to build in that intervening half-decade. That would completely destroy any future possibility of getting into businesses, and probably end AMD as a company.

tl;dr right decision, wrong reason, way wrong timing.
 
Joined
Jul 13, 2016
Messages
3,281 (1.07/day)
Processor Ryzen 7800X3D
Motherboard ASRock X670E Taichi
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 Chromax
Memory 32GB DDR5 6000 CL30
Video Card(s) MSI RTX 4090 Trio
Storage Too much
Display(s) Acer Predator XB3 27" 240 Hz
Case Thermaltake Core X9
Audio Device(s) Topping DX5, DCA Aeon II
Power Supply Seasonic Prime Titanium 850w
Mouse G305
Keyboard Wooting HE60
VR HMD Valve Index
Software Win 10
I don't think AMD really had a choice but to make this move. Nvidia's proprietary lock-in has continued to extend their domination of the market. It's impossible for AMD to be only be a hardware company when their competitor is increasingly vertically integrating into the market all the way up and down the software and hardware stack. We have Nvidia tech in most games nowadays and even mice, monitors, ect.

One has to hope that ROCm was part of this initiative and that they actually started buffing up their software hires at least a year back. Otherwise, as @Assimilator pointed out it takes years to build up the required expertise.

I hope that AMD continues to push open source because I frankly do not want even more features in games that can only be used on a specific video card brand.
 
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
Messages
1,662 (0.23/day)
Location
Maribor, Slovenia, EU
System Name Core i9 rig / Lenovo laptop
Processor Core i9 10900X / Core i5 8350U
Motherboard Asus Prime X299 Edition 30 / Lenovo motherboard
Cooling Corsair H115i PRO RGB / stock cooler
Memory Gskill 4x8GB 3600mhz / 16GB 2400mhz
Video Card(s) Asus ROG Strix RTX 2080 Super / UHD 620
Storage Samsung SSD 970 PRO 1TB / Samsung OEM 256GB NVMe
Display(s) Dell UltraSharp UP3017 / Full HD IPS touch
Case Coolermaster mastercase H500M
Audio Device(s) Onboard sound
Power Supply Enermax Platimax 1700 watt / Lenovo 65watt power adapter
Mouse Logitech M500s
Keyboard Cherry
Software Windows 11 Pro / Windows 11 Pro
Interesting choice by amd.
 
Joined
Sep 23, 2022
Messages
1,288 (1.62/day)
I'd like to think this is all part of a long term strategy, carefully planned and executed, with roadmaps and solid goals.

The realist in me thinks the last board meeting discussed Nvidia's success, how they became the most valuable company on the planet, and the response was:


1720455464704.png
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2019
Messages
12,340 (5.76/day)
Location
Midlands, UK
System Name Nebulon B
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard MSi PRO B650M-A WiFi
Cooling be quiet! Dark Rock 4
Memory 2x 24 GB Corsair Vengeance DDR5-4800
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon RX 6750 XT 12 GB
Storage 2 TB Corsair MP600 GS, 2 TB Corsair MP600 R2
Display(s) Dell S3422DWG, 7" Waveshare touchscreen
Case Kolink Citadel Mesh black
Audio Device(s) Logitech Z333 2.1 speakers, AKG Y50 headphones
Power Supply Seasonic Prime GX-750
Mouse Logitech MX Master 2S
Keyboard Logitech G413 SE
Software Bazzite (Fedora Linux) KDE
I hope that AMD continues to push open source because I frankly do not want even more features in games that can only be used on a specific video card brand.
This a million times over. Unfortunately, I read the opposite in articles like this one.
 
Joined
Apr 24, 2020
Messages
2,709 (1.61/day)
I guess the days of hardware-agnostic software are coming to an end.

Its more about the decline of Microsoft Windows.

Microsoft cares about trying to have software run on the most hardware as possible. Linux really doesn't (indeed: its hardware-devs that are pushing Linux so much).

Eventually, people will realize the problem and we will swing back to more portable systems (like Java, more portable OSes, etc. etc.). But for now, hardware specific is king.
 
Joined
Mar 18, 2023
Messages
872 (1.41/day)
System Name Never trust a socket with less than 2000 pins
If you believe that anybody is going to sell you a consumer viable priced system to effectively allow reasonably quick local instances of LLMs then you didn't read that recent article where China was buying H20's from Nvidia for $12,000 each.

That is for training the models.

Consumers running the trained form of these LLMs locally do inference which is nicely done with cheaper hardware.

I hope that AMD continues to push open source because I frankly do not want even more features in games that can only be used on a specific video card brand.

I am optimistic because I think AMD has no choice. NVidia's customers hate to be locked in. I'm talking about customers like Google here. They want choice. They want the certainty that the software is not developed in an unwanted direction in the future. AMD better complies with that.
 
Joined
Dec 29, 2020
Messages
207 (0.14/day)
Good that they are making a bigger push for software, they have been slowly scaling there for a while, and just hiring a shitload of engineers is bound to lead to wastage, so in principle this timeline is not too bad, but especially the gpu department needs more engineers desparately, for about everything.
 
Joined
Nov 3, 2014
Messages
264 (0.07/day)
AMD: No rocm support for everything except the latest gen highest end GPUs

also AMD: Why don't anybody develop for AMD hardware?????????????????????????????????????????????????

They think the tinkerers are building for Nvidia on Titans/x090s? Most of us were working on 2-3 generations old x60 class GPUs until the Nvidia ecosystem became reliable enough to justify high end purchases.
 
Last edited:
Joined
May 26, 2021
Messages
137 (0.11/day)
AMD: Drops rocm support for everything except the latest gen highest end GPUs

also AMD: Why don't anybody develop for AMD hardware?????????????????????????????????????????????????

They think the tinkerers are building for Nvidia on Titans/x090s? Most of us were working on 2-3 generations old x60 class GPUs until the Nvidia ecosystem became reliable enough to justify high end purchases.
Precisely this. Software is where they absolutely have the biggest gap. Hell even the software they should be producing to support their hardware is not always the best and sometimes inconsistent.

They could be about 10 years behind at this point. A lot of catching up to do. Problem with this is, in the short to medium term they wouldn't be able to sell the AMD ecosystem concept that others have already built, and that takes time to build, not even talking about adoption at this point.
 

eidairaman1

The Exiled Airman
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Messages
42,198 (6.64/day)
Location
Republic of Texas (True Patriot)
System Name PCGOD
Processor AMD FX 8350@ 5.0GHz
Motherboard Asus TUF 990FX Sabertooth R2 2901 Bios
Cooling Scythe Ashura, 2×BitFenix 230mm Spectre Pro LED (Blue,Green), 2x BitFenix 140mm Spectre Pro LED
Memory 16 GB Gskill Ripjaws X 2133 (2400 OC, 10-10-12-20-20, 1T, 1.65V)
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon 290 Sapphire Vapor-X
Storage Samsung 840 Pro 256GB, WD Velociraptor 1TB
Display(s) NEC Multisync LCD 1700V (Display Port Adapter)
Case AeroCool Xpredator Evil Blue Edition
Audio Device(s) Creative Labs Sound Blaster ZxR
Power Supply Seasonic 1250 XM2 Series (XP3)
Mouse Roccat Kone XTD
Keyboard Roccat Ryos MK Pro
Software Windows 7 Pro 64
My suggestion, if AMD want to match Nvidia commercially, is that they need to up the bullshit factor, create some features Nvidia doesn't have. All the better if there's actually a practical advantage to them, that doesn't really matter... Or it hasn't for Nvidia anyway. AMD products are good largely. Their marketing and brand image is nowhere near as good as Nvidia though. Even if the stock trades at 200+ P/E ratio somehow.

The problem is that Nvidia is always dictating the sales narrative on the front foot, be it from RTX, Upscaling with DLSS, through the Cyrpto Mining boom and on to AI GPUs for LLMs being our technological savior. A lot of what they're pushing is very overhyped, just used to up their margins and sell inferior product, or creating features that are largely useless but give them an advantage in some way. Few reviewers are prepared to call a spade a spade when they release something like the 4060 series.
The biggest issue with Advanced Micro Devices is their Lack of Advertising.
 

OneMoar

There is Always Moar
Joined
Apr 9, 2010
Messages
8,795 (1.65/day)
Location
Rochester area
System Name RPC MK2.5
Processor Ryzen 5800x
Motherboard Gigabyte Aorus Pro V2
Cooling Thermalright Phantom Spirit SE
Memory CL16 BL2K16G36C16U4RL 3600 1:1 micron e-die
Video Card(s) GIGABYTE RTX 3070 Ti GAMING OC
Storage Nextorage NE1N 2TB ADATA SX8200PRO NVME 512GB, Intel 545s 500GBSSD, ADATA SU800 SSD, 3TB Spinner
Display(s) LG Ultra Gear 32 1440p 165hz Dell 1440p 75hz
Case Phanteks P300 /w 300A front panel conversion
Audio Device(s) onboard
Power Supply SeaSonic Focus+ Platinum 750W
Mouse Kone burst Pro
Keyboard SteelSeries Apex 7
Software Windows 11 +startisallback
AMD Whos software is worst in class is becoming a Software company... but they have _ALWAYS_ Been a software company
 
Joined
Jul 30, 2019
Messages
3,282 (1.69/day)
System Name Still not a thread ripper but pretty good.
Processor Ryzen 9 7950x, Thermal Grizzly AM5 Offset Mounting Kit, Thermal Grizzly Extreme Paste
Motherboard ASRock B650 LiveMixer (BIOS/UEFI version P3.08, AGESA 1.2.0.2)
Cooling EK-Quantum Velocity, EK-Quantum Reflection PC-O11, D5 PWM, EK-CoolStream PE 360, XSPC TX360
Memory Micron DDR5-5600 ECC Unbuffered Memory (2 sticks, 64GB, MTC20C2085S1EC56BD1) + JONSBO NF-1
Video Card(s) XFX Radeon RX 5700 & EK-Quantum Vector Radeon RX 5700 +XT & Backplate
Storage Samsung 4TB 980 PRO, 2 x Optane 905p 1.5TB (striped), AMD Radeon RAMDisk
Display(s) 2 x 4K LG 27UL600-W (and HUANUO Dual Monitor Mount)
Case Lian Li PC-O11 Dynamic Black (original model)
Audio Device(s) Corsair Commander Pro for Fans, RGB, & Temp Sensors (x4)
Power Supply Corsair RM750x
Mouse Logitech M575
Keyboard Corsair Strafe RGB MK.2
Software Windows 10 Professional (64bit)
Benchmark Scores RIP Ryzen 9 5950x, ASRock X570 Taichi (v1.06), 128GB Micron DDR4-3200 ECC UDIMM (18ASF4G72AZ-3G2F1)
With Windows becoming more intrusive maybe it's time for AMD to partner to produce a serious alternative desktop? Linux + Steam + AMD = The future of desktop gaming? :rolleyes:
 
Joined
Mar 18, 2023
Messages
872 (1.41/day)
System Name Never trust a socket with less than 2000 pins
With Windows becoming more intrusive maybe it's time for AMD to partner to produce a serious alternative desktop? Linux + Steam + AMD = The future of desktop gaming? :rolleyes:

Their contributions to Linux and other open source software are quite impressive lately.

Wine gaming on Linux is quite steady in its progress.
 
Top