AMD Works with Microsoft to Improve Zen 3 thru Zen 5 Performance in Windows 11 24H2

[Wirko]

One TPU forum member devised a power plan for Windows 10 on Alder Lake P+E long ago, when it became clear that Wintel wouldn't do that. Described all the details here. I can't find it now, also because forum search does not want "10" as a search keyword. Maybe someone can make something similar for Windows 10 and Zen 5 as well.

 

[AsRock]

This is really BS. Either the team running those benchmarks internally at AMD faked the numbers on their own, or the marketing department decided to fake the numbers, or Su herself asked from it's employees to create a presentation with fake data. If they believe that their numbers can be confirmed and that tech press haven't running Zen 5 systems at their optimal configuration, they could set a meeting with Gamers Nexus for example, call them at AMD's labs and show them how they got those numbers.

Maybe just to please the shareholders.

I guess we will see........ MAYBE

 

[LittleBro]

Are they faster in WIN10 then?
Maybe if running the games/apps with "Run as administrator" will work the same as running them with the Administrator user?

I see that lately we have to update the BIOS each month and do a lot of tweaks in BIOS to get "stock" performance and stability (on Intel and AMD now) + OS tweaks!

That interests me as well.

Is this kind of bug related to Windows 11 only? If yes, that'd be a total pain-in-the-ass for the Microsoft ... I can imagine lots of gamers rolling back to Win10 to "unlock" missing performance.
I wonder whether W1zz would have some time to test it (same machine, same 4-5 games, different OSes).

Anyhow, you pay for Windows and what you get is the OS that does not utilize the CPU properly.
On the other side is for instance Linux, which is free and does it right.
You pay to get worse. Ridiculous.

 

[Ruru]

Well, I don't mind if I'll get some boost for my 5800X.

 

[kondamin]

So our electric bills could have been lower, great….

 

[Vayra86]

When/If there's an LTSC IoT Ent. version of 24H2+, maybe I'd put Win11 back on my rig. MAYBE.

Then again, I wonder if WIn10LTSCEntIoT even has such issues that need addressing?

I'm running 11 IOT Ent 24H2.

I think 24H2 IoT is technically just a preview at the moment. Seems to update and work just fine. Moved to it a few weeks ago because my usual 11 Pro just keeps on racking up integrity errors and breaking itself for no reason (other than Microsoft being Microsoft). Nothing in BIOS has been changed and this install is not breaking itself.

Knowing the optimizations in the past few years specifically for MPO and flip model, there's no way I would go back to anything earlier than 23H2, let alone Win10 for that matter. Even if it was LTSC.

But then again, Win10 never really had performance problems with bigger Zen 3 CPUs whereas Win11 has. So maybe for Zen 3 I'd just stick with Win10.

Zero issues here on this release... the only minor issue I have is the gaming overlay prompt that is unable to access MS Store... which OTOH is a great thing Already killed everything GameDVR in the registry but it keeps coming. (We can't find ms-gamingoverlay.link nonsense).

 

[izy]

That interests me as well.

Is this kind of bug related to Windows 11 only? If yes, that'd be a total pain-in-the-ass for the Microsoft ... I can imagine lots of gamers rolling back to Win10 to "unlock" missing performance.
I wonder whether W1zz would have some time to test it (same machine, same 4-5 games, different OSes).

Anyhow, you pay for Windows and what you get is the OS that does not utilize the CPU properly.
On the other side is for instance Linux, which is free and does it right.
You pay to get worse. Ridiculous.

I just went to WIN 24H2 , what i noticed so far that it reports the CPU speed better in Task Manager (zen3) but it feels a bit choppy compared to 23H2 (maybe it has to settle for a few hours) , sadly i didnt test any games before the update but it looks faster and for some reason now is jumping between cores more. I can tell you that at the first look in WoW im having more fps than usual but benchmarking in WoW is not to be trusted. (it can be placebo too )

 

[tabascosauz]

I'm running 11 IOT Ent 24H2.


Zero issues here on this release... the only minor issue I have is the gaming overlay prompt that is unable to access MS Store... which OTOH is a great thing Already killed everything GameDVR in the registry but it keeps coming. (We can't find ms-gamingoverlay.link nonsense).

I used to do the kill gamebar thing in the past complete with the gamingoverlay error, but no longer after realizing after 2 years that having no Game Bar breaks flip model and VRR in some of my games. Easy enough to fix with wsreset -i

Otherwise, no complaints. Just moved my G14 over to 24H2 IoT as well. Hoping to pick up a bit of battery life along with properly cleansing it of Asus filth services

 

[Vayra86]

I used to do the kill gamebar thing in the past complete with the gamingoverlay error, but no longer after realizing after 2 years that having no Game Bar breaks flip model and VRR in some of my games. Easy enough to fix with wsreset -i

Otherwise, no complaints. Just moved my G14 over to 24H2 IoT as well. Hoping to pick up a bit of battery life along with properly cleansing it of Asus filth services

Yeah I read that elsewhere too, so its just better to install it through powershell?

 

[Event Horizon]

Sounds like it will help Zen 5 in benchmarks, but won't necessarily widen the Zen 5 to 4 delta in all cases.

 

[tabascosauz]

Yeah I read that elsewhere too, so its just better to install it through powershell?

all the "tools" seem deprecated so the ps command is the easiest way now

but I know some people really hate on Store. I personally don't think it's anywhere near the most egregious thing MS has done and it's never been responsible for any of MS' biggest fuckups on my setups, but if you don't need it I guess there's no reason to install it

 

[_roman_]

(We can't find ms-gamingoverlay.link nonsense).

I have the same error in Windows 11 Pro. I think game "Pathway" from the epic game store triggers always that error box here.

In my point of view Windows and Linux with the userspace is hardly optimized for the recent processors like the Ryzen 7000 Series or newer.
Linux itself got just recently some options to activate / set for a few security issues, scheduling, how the processes are placed on which core. I started to check and lookup those new options which come or change with a new kernel. Note: Linux - i mean the kernel, only the kernel. Anything else is the userspace, toolchain, and so on.
Gcc is barely optimized for the Ryzen 5000 or newer processors in my point of view.

 

[Daven]

Didn’t Phoronix find a bigger performance uplift going from Zen 4 to 5 in Linux?

 

[Bwaze]

Could the supposed delay of X3D chips have anything to do with waiting for Microsoft to fix the scheduler and provide Zen 5 with the promised performance uplifts?

AMD Ryzen 9000X3D 3D V-Cache CPUs Reportedly Delayed To CES 2025

 

[Chrispy_]

Its a continuation of 10, which still is a hobbled mess

Everything is a hobbled mess since Vista, which was the last time any complete overhaul was really done on the core OS.

W7 Fixed most of the complaints people had with Vista, and by the time W7 released, most hardware manufacturers had finally sorted out proper drivers for the new kernel.
W8 Was the start of the interface and GUI schizophrenia since all of the Modern UI stuff was just slapped on top of W7 and all the "classic" W7 stuff was still running the show under the hood.
10 basically rolled back Sinovsky's abomination of a UI and gave people the W8 they really wanted back in 2012, but the Modern UI schizophrenia is/was still present and incomplete.

11 is a continuation of 10 - ulimately all we've had is further UI experimentation by Microsoft of bolt-on features, a still-incomplete migration to Modern UI, and yet more failed attempts to move everyone to Microsoft's cloud services via incessant nagging. Under the hood it's basically still Vista, warts and all.

 

[Ruru]

W7 Fixed most of the complaints people had with Vista, and by the time W7 released, most hardware manufacturers had finally sorted out proper drivers for the new kernel.

I'd personally think that when Win7 was released, people had enough horsepower under the hood to run the OS. Vista was demanding and practically needed a fast dualcore and 2+ gigs of RAM to run smoothly, and when Win7 was released, that was pretty much the typical market PC's configuration.

 

[Dragokar]

As much as I like AMD, they need to sort this stuff out asap. It is not only that they screw with the good old errors in slideshows, they also deny themselves greater success when they don't sort these kinds of things out beforehand. It can't be that hard to find some overseeing engineers (NO PR or business management guys) or even third parties to overwatch testings, specs and other stuff and I don't even talk about the 5kXT comparisons with 14th Gen.

They always tend to do good stuff and shoot themselves in the foot with things they overlook or poorly communicate.

By the way I would like to get 5600X3D in Europe

 

[qlum]

Didn’t Phoronix find a bigger performance uplift going from Zen 4 to 5 in Linux?

That seems to be the case, but the tests used in that comparisons were not gaming.
Even the initial review had a very small focus on gaming.
It's just not something you can extrapolate from.

 

[Chrispy_]

I'd personally think that when Win7 was released, people had enough horsepower under the hood to run the OS. Vista was demanding and practically needed a fast dualcore and 2+ gigs of RAM to run smoothly, and when Win7 was released, that was pretty much the typical market PC's configuration.

Yeah, a combination of lots of things really:

• Manufacturers finally having working drivers.
• People retiring their old single-core systems with 512MB RAM for newer hardware - and whilst still expensive, SSDs were starting to become mainstream.
• Microsoft tuning the services and streamlining some of the rough edges and unoptimized services after the initial Vista performance/backlash requirements.

 

[529th]

Is the old data from chips like the 7800X3D based on older Windows 11 versions? I would assume so, and if so then it would have to be retested on the latest builds for a baseline comparison..


EDIT: personally I can tell when a Windows update effects gaming performance.

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

I think all of the shifting about on CPU architecture has introduced regressions in the Windows Scheduler. Intel has been working with MS from the beginning of time, but even today, one can see instances of P+E not working well. Now Intel is about to abandon HT, which has been a staple of PCs since Pentium 4. Then you have AMD, who has largely offered only full cores with SMT. Yeah, we have the C cores, but they are really only cache limited compared to the "standard" cores. I think MS accommodating all these changes has only made a mess for performance on everything.

Even then, consider just how much more work it takes for AMD and Intel to get that extra 5% we're looking for. They go into Windows to fix the issues, but probably start making new ones in the process.

 

[R0H1T]

I mean we have Linux which handles everything from ARM, MIPS, RISCV, x86, Itanium(?) & what not.

 

[stimpy88]

Vista was the last, most ambitious OS Microsoft ever made, until they cut its features back. Since then, each release is just bolt-on extras to Vistas core. Windows 7 was a great service pack to Vista, and that's why it stands as the best OS they ever released. Everything else since then is just lipstick on a pig, a very bloated pig.

Microsoft do not have the talent nor desire to develop a new OS, and stuff like this is the end result.

 

[Jermelescu]

Vista was the last, most ambitious OS Microsoft ever made, until they cut its features back. Since then, each release is just bolt-on extras to Vistas core. Windows 7 was a great service pack to Vista, and that's why it stands as the best OS they ever released. Everything else since then is just lipstick on a pig, a very bloated pig.

Microsoft do not have the talent nor desire to develop a new OS, and stuff like this is the end result.

Literally kek. Sure, the UI might be inconsistent at times, but the OS from a technical POV is in its best shape ever (discussed with Microsoft devs). 95% of Windows' problems are 3rd party stuff.

 

[Chaitanya]

Yeah, a combination of lots of things really:

• Manufacturers finally having working drivers.
• People retiring their old single-core systems with 512MB RAM for newer hardware - and whilst still expensive, SSDs were starting to become mainstream.
• Microsoft tuning the services and streamlining some of the rough edges and unoptimized services after the initial Vista performance/backlash requirements.

SSD didnt become "mainstream" until much later into Win7 lifecycle, and I remember there were a lot SSD makers selling 32 and 64GB Sata SSDs in 2012 as cache for HDDs. It was only around 2014-15 when SSDs became a mainstay for OS drives with handful of softwares that could be installed with it.

OCZ Synapse Cache 64 GB SSD Review - Overclockers

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www.overclockers.com

One TPU forum member devised a power plan for Windows 10 on Alder Lake P+E long ago, when it became clear that Wintel wouldn't do that. Described all the details here. I can't find it now, also because forum search does not want "10" as a search keyword. Maybe someone can make something similar for Windows 10 and Zen 5 as well.

Microsoft is the reason for most headaches on Windows running on x86 platform and now even with Qualcomm they have shrugged off their responsibility.