Intel "Arrow Lake" and "Lunar Lake" Are Safe from Voltage Stability Issues, Company Reports

[AleksandarK]

Intel's 13th and 14th generation processors, codenamed "Raptor Lake" and "Raptor Lake Refresh," have been notoriously riddled with stability issues over the past few months, up until Intel shipped the 0x129 microcode update on August 10 to fix these issues. However, the upcoming Intel Core Ultra 200 "Arrow Lake" and 200V series "Lunar Lake" processors will not have these issues as the company confirmed that an all-new design is used, even for the segment of power regulation. The official company note states: "Intel confirms that its next generation of processors, codenamed Arrow Lake and Lunar Lake, are not affected by the Vmin Shift Instability issue due to the new architectures powering both product families. Intel will ensure future product families are protected against the Vmin Shift Instability issue as well."

Originally, Intel's analysis for 13th—and 14th-generation processors indicated that stability issues stemmed from excessive voltage during processor operation. These voltage increases led to degradation, raising the minimum voltage necessary for stable performance, which Intel refers to as "Vmin shift." Given that the design phase of new architectures lasts for years, Intel has surely anticipated that the old power delivery could yield problems, and the upcoming CPU generations are now exempt from these issues, bringing stability once again to Intel's platforms. When these new products launch, all eyes will be on the platform's performance, but with a massive interest in stability testing from enthusiasts.



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[atomek]

They are safe now, but the question is will they degrade as 13th and 14th gen?

 

[john_]

13th and 14th gen owners who will never under any circumstance buy AMD hardware, are probably already selling their systems and getting ready to rush to buy the new platform.

 

[N/A]

They are safe now, but the question is will they degrade as 13th and 14th gen?

As long as there is no excessive voltage. all they did is just lower the clock for the next generation, partly because the pipeline is more complex. The new design has nothing to do with it when they still think 1.55V is fine. Under those conditions it will get worse, the voltage is insanely high. Vmin is always shifting, but how fast and by how much that remains to be seen.

 

[R0H1T]

There's also the oxidation issue ~ which Intel still hasn't(?) admitted to officially & it'll probably come up in a lawsuit or two few years down the line!

Don't forget they sold those bad batches to unsuspecting users

 

[azrael]

Let's just take Intel's word on this. I mean, it's not as if they are dealing with any trust issues....

 

[mtosev]

Good to hear that newer CPUs aren't affected by the voltage issues.

 

[Bwaze]

How long did it take for Intel to admit "Voltage Stability issue" with 13th and 14th Gen? After all the tech channels and review sites were already writing about Intel simply ignoring large issue?

And now we should simply believe them?

 

[maxfly]

How long did it take for Intel to admit "Voltage Stability issue" with 13th and 14th Gen? After all the tech channels and review sites were already writing about Intel simply ignoring large issue?

And now we should simply believe them?

The article tries to sum it up...

"When these new products launch, all eyes will be on the platform's performance, but with a massive interest in stability testing from enthusiasts."

Until the above happens along with a healthy dose of in depth reviews, no one is believing anything from Intel, except for the easily fooled of course.

 

[Bwaze]

But that's not something you can quickly test - issues with CPUs degrading after months or even years in use are a bit difficult to speed up...

 

[Rais]

Intel word isn't worth anymore. Not that i trust any company, but the lies and misdirections from intel were exceptionally awful.

 

[R0H1T]

Until the above happens along with a healthy dose of in depth reviews, no one is believing anything from Intel, except for the easily fooled of course.

The problem with that is no one does "long term" stability testing on CPU's outside servers, in part because it's expensive and really time consuming. So unless you have a Hyperbolic Time Chamber from DBZ(?) there's no way to take Intel's word on face value, even if they may be accurate! This is what happens when you have a history of lying as Intel has.

 

[londiste]

There's also the oxidation issue ~ which Intel still hasn't(?) admitted to officially & it'll probably come up in a lawsuit or two few years down the line!

Don't forget they sold those bad batches to unsuspecting users

Addressing Manufacturing Speculation on Intel Core 13th/14th Gen Desktop Processors

The Via Oxidation issue currently reported in the press is a minor one that was addressed with manufacturing improvements and screens in early 2023. The issue was identified in late 2022, and with the manufacturing improvements and additional screens implemented Intel was able to confirm full...

community.intel.com

How long did it take for Intel to admit "Voltage Stability issue" with 13th and 14th Gen? After all the tech channels and review sites were already writing about Intel simply ignoring large issue?

And now we should simply believe them?

You are trying to reduce this - justifiably - to the customer view of "something is wrong". It is very problematic for a company to admit to a problem that they do not have a proper cause and solution for. This took a while to unravel. And the reported issues are not a voltage stability issues but at least three different issues playing a role in there.
1. There was the motherboard settings problem - despite Intel initially suspecting power limits, et was manufacturers and LLC settings, resulting in too low voltages for the highest end of boost clocks.
2. There was the via oxidation problem - which effectively results in fast degradation and leads to instability.
3. There is the excessive voltage issue due to flaw in the algorithm - and looks like it overvolted CPUs leading to fast degradation.

The new gen comes in with lower boost clocks, probably much better set voltage limits and they know better what to check for. Once you have the causes down things get much easier.

 

[R0H1T]

That's a useless post as it doesn't include any details. It's also pretty vague probably because of legal issues.

 

[maxfly]

The problem with that is no one does "long term" stability testing on CPU's outside servers, in part because it's expensive and really time consuming. So unless you have a Hyperbolic Time Chamber from DBZ(?) there's no way to take Intel's word on face value, even if they may be accurate! This is what happens when you have a history of lying as Intel has.

This has no bearing what so ever on what I said...

 

[R0H1T]

massive interest in stability testing from enthusiasts.

You can't do time/age-related testing without testing the chips over a longer period of time; the issue with Intel chips was more related to that, so you can't just have any random tests show up similar results without factoring in arguably the most important aspect, i.e. time.

 

[maxfly]

You can't do time/age related testing without testing the chips over a longer period of time, the issue with Intel chips was more related to that so you can't just have any random tests show up similar results without having to factor in time as well.

Yep. Everyone understands the current flaw and how it comes about yada, yada.

But again, taking my post out of context and injecting it into your time/age argument doesn't work. We need to actually SEE Intel's next iteration prior to jumping to conclusions. At that point, feel free to argue the merits (or lack)of time and age testing.

 

[azrael]

You can't do time/age-related testing without testing the chips over a longer period of time; the issue with Intel chips was more related to that, so you can't just have any random tests show up similar results without factoring in arguably the most important aspect, i.e. time.

You can just pump more power into it. Oh, wait...

 

[R0H1T]

You have a good option with OCCT having variable load to try something like that, but it's limited to just one hour for the free version.

 

[Daven]

Just for the record “Vmin shift” is an Intel chip defect and not the fault of the motherboard makers.

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

Yep. Everyone understands the current flaw and how it comes about yada, yada.

But again, taking my post out of context and injecting it into your time/age argument doesn't work. We need to actually SEE Intel's next iteration prior to jumping to conclusions. At that point, feel free to argue the merits (or lack)of time and age testing.

What do you mean? It was pretty clear that 12/14th gen issues took years to fully come out, it wasnt observed at launch even with tons of watts. It doesnt matter how well 15th gen is tested, it takes time for these issues to show themselves. There's no trust that intel has fixed their issues.

 

[Noyand]

What do you mean? It was pretty clear that 12/14th gen issues took years to fully come out, it wasnt observed at launch even with tons of watts. It doesnt matter how well 15th gen is tested, it takes time for these issues to show themselves. There's no trust that intel has fixed their issues.

12th gen? From what I’ve read 12th gen doesn’t share the issues of raptor lake, none of the people who revelead the issues of RPL talked about alder lake, Wendell, Steve from gamer nexus, those datacenter center gaming company only talked about raptor lake.

 

[kondamin]

in a couple of days they go on sale right?

 

[maxfly]

What do you mean? It was pretty clear that 12/14th gen issues took years to fully come out, it wasnt observed at launch even with tons of watts. It doesnt matter how well 15th gen is tested, it takes time for these issues to show themselves. There's no trust that intel has fixed their issues.

Hooray cpt. obvious come to save the day!

12th gen...great start. Have another cup o cocoa.

Where exactly did I say anything about trusting Intel? In fact I said, only a fool would at this point. You might try reading the entire thread before jumping in with your next earth shattering revelation.

 

[evernessince]

How long did it take for Intel to admit "Voltage Stability issue" with 13th and 14th Gen? After all the tech channels and review sites were already writing about Intel simply ignoring large issue?

And now we should simply believe them?

According to Asmongold (who is a partial owner of Starforge), people in charge of his company's daily operations were aware of the Intel issue for a whole year prior to it becoming public.

Intel itself admitted the oxidation issue started about 2 years ago. I highly suspect that Intel would have covered these issues up indefinitely if they had not been made public. It took two major issues for the story to break, which is just nuts.

Suffice to say, no one should be taking Intel at it's word.