Crucial Discovers Flaw in AMD X670E Motherboards: Gen 5 NVMe Slots Drop to Gen 1 Speeds, Cause Boot Issues

[btarunr]

Memory and SSD maker Crucial noticed an uptick in support requests by users claiming that their Gen 5 or Gen 4 NVMe SSDs would drop to PCIe Gen 1 speeds, besides being unable to boot into Windows after a restart. Crucial then did some digging, and localized the issue to users with motherboards based on the AMD X670E chipset, AMD's flagship Socket AM5 platform chipset. While not a function of the chipset itself, it turns out that there is a flaw in the way AMD designed the PCI-Express I/O of the X670E platform, specifically the PCIe Gen 5-capable M.2 NVMe interfaces that are attached to the CPU, causing them to drop in speeds to Gen 1. This problem isn't surfacing on the AMD B650 or the B650E, or even the X670—it is oddly specific to the X670E, despite the Gen 5 M.2 NVMe slots not being wired to the chipset.

While AMD made no public statement on the technical aspect of the flaw, if we were to guess, this could be a faulty implementation of PCIe ASPM (active state power management) at the firmware level, which reduces the speed of the PCIe link layer to reduce power. The default setting for PCIe ASPM in most motherboard UEFI setup programs tends to be "disabled," although there could be a bug in the firmware of X670E motherboards, causing it to engage, and in a buggy manner. Most UEFI BIOS setup programs tend to have two separate sets of PCIe ASPM settings—one for the CPU-attached PCIe root (which includes the x16 PEG and CPU-attached NVMe slots), and the other for downstream PCIe connectivity from the chipset.



Crucial suggested users to move their drives to the M.2 Gen 4 slots that are wired to the X670E chipset while they await UEFI firmware updates from their motherboard vendors. This works around the problem—at least you get Gen 4 x4 speeds if not Gen 1 x1. MSI is the first manufacturer to respond with UEFI firmware updates that correct the issue, letting users switch back to the faster CPU-attached Gen 5 NVMe slots. It remains to be seen if the issue affects the new AMD X870E, which launched earlier this week. The X870E is practically the same platform as the X670E.

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[R-T-B]

That's oddly specific.

 

[Woomack]

I have that issue on the ASUS X670E Gene, but only when I use the M.2 DIMM card. It works without problems on the first M.2 PCIe 5.0 socket.
I'm only surprised it's reported right now by Crucial and not any motherboard brand that reports full compatibility on their QVL lists. The issue has been around for over a year. I assume that barely anyone was using M.2 PCIe 5.0 SSDs because of ridiculous prices and not much better performance (out of synthetic benchmarks).

 

[Nater]

Is it just me or has MSI really upped their game the last couple years. Johnny on the spot with any and all updates and fixes that are popping up compared to the other mainboard players.

 

[Woomack]

Is it just me or has MSI really upped their game the last couple years. Johnny on the spot with any and all updates and fixes that are popping up compared to the other mainboard players.

The last generation wasn't any special, but some models were overpriced. MSI locked some BIOS options like RAM OC profiles in selected motherboards. Motherboards also supported lower RAM than the competition. BIOS releases for Intel were delayed. I have Z790 Ace MAX and many updates/microcodes were skipped. ASUS was releasing everything on time for all higher models like APEX, while my MSI had 3 months without updates at some point.

 

[human_error]

Is it just me or has MSI really upped their game the last couple years. Johnny on the spot with any and all updates and fixes that are popping up compared to the other mainboard players.

MSI have been denying that it's an issue or reproducible on the X670E MAG Tomahawk since they broke it last summer with a firmware update. It prevents WD and some samsung drives from being detected at cold boot, but apparently they couldn't replicate it despite it being a widely reported issue from quite a few users. Been stuck on a BIOS with much slower boot times waiting for a fix.

They've still not released an update for this on my motherboard yet (assuming it fixes the non-detected drive issue).

 

[Nater]

The last generation wasn't any special, but some models were overpriced. MSI locked some BIOS options like RAM OC profiles in selected motherboards. Motherboards also supported lower RAM than the competition. BIOS releases for Intel were delayed. I have Z790 Ace MAX and many updates/microcodes were skipped. ASUS was releasing everything on time for all higher models like APEX, while my MSI had 3 months without updates at some point.

Asus was like a week behind on the last couple Intel microcode updates on my Z790 ProArt vs MSI.

 

[phanbuey]

Is it just me or has MSI really upped their game the last couple years. Johnny on the spot with any and all updates and fixes that are popping up compared to the other mainboard players.

They really have... I have had the least problems with their builds -- Im basically using MSI almost exclusively at this point.

 

[evernessince]

That's oddly specific.

It's odd too because it seems to only effect certain motherboards. Some X670E users are reporting the issue while others have not. Not uncalled for though, could just be very odd bug behavior.

 

[persondb]

That is a pretty bad thing to be around for a year or so. Does this also happen to the dual chipset X870 variants(the chipset is exactly the same though the firmware might be slightly different)?

 

[Blaeza]

Hmm, X870 comes out and then this is found. Dubious.

 

[Octavean]

That's gotta sting!!!

 

[_roman_]

This problem isn't surfacing on the AMD B650 or the B650E, or even the X670—it is oddly specific to the X670E, despite the Gen 5 M.2 NVMe slots not being wired to the chipset.

Hard to believe it's only X670E specific.

Well done Crucial finding the issue.

Is it only CRUCIAL NVME specific issue with the AMD X670E cpu wired NVME slot? Are other NVME brands also affected?

--

I read it kinda often that some mainboards have issues with certain NVMes. I had the impression it was more an INTEL issue in the first place. Thanks for hinting out the bad NVME brands like WD (now SANDISK) and Samsung.

--

Regarding the claim that ASUS ...: ASUS barely releases any up to date uefi updates for my X670 mainboard. Some updates are totally skipped by ASUS. The definition which board qualifies as high end or not depends on the user. A620 based am5 mainboards in my point of view are not high end.

 

[maxfly]

Hard to believe it's only X670E specific.

Well done Crucial finding the issue.

Is it only CRUCIAL NVME specific issue with the AMD X670E cpu wired NVME slot? Are other NVME brands also affected?

No. Crucial drives don't have anything to do with the issue. They simply found the x670e MB issue. It's not a problem with the drives, it's the MBs...as they clearly stated in the article.

 

[Metroid]

The question is if this problem persists on the newly x870e because basically is almost the same as x670e.

 

[chrcoluk]

The question is if this problem persists on the newly x870e because basically is almost the same as x670e.

Ironically it might be ok as its more like the b650.

 

[CoolZone]

More likely X670E is like X870E and X870 is more like B650

 

[robert3892]

I have an ASRock X670E and I use a Corsair MP 700 SE. No loss of speed noted.

 

[blackie]

Info that other chipsets from the same generation like B650E are unaffected have been confirmed or it's too soon?

 

[gerard.bow]

the first slot on MSI did not work since day one of the X670X with a WD or Samsung SSD!
Let's hope that thanks to Crucial's help, the other SSDs will also become usable ;-)
Congratulations on finally being able to use your hardware after 2 years and "EOL" of the platform.

 

[Woomack]

The question is if this problem persists on the newly x870e because basically is almost the same as x670e.

There is no issue on the Gigabyte X870E Pro ICE - the same max bandwidth is available on 3x M.2 PCIe 5.0 sockets with the Crucial T705 SSD.

 

[kapone32]

NVME as a platform can be very fickle on X670E. I mentioned on another thread that I had to replace my WD AN 1500. I ordered a cheap 4TB 4.0 drive to replace it. When I took the AN 1500 apart I took the first drive and Windows recognized it as raw data (Using a USB C NVME external). I put the 2nd drive in and it registered as my G drive (NVME RAID 0). When I looked in Disk Manager I noticed that my actual NVME RAID drive was now unavailable. I unplugged it restarted and now only my SATA drives are showing. I had to go into the BIOS and change the ON board Device setting from PCIe RAID to Auto. That gave me my NVME drives back. I am using a PCIe adapter for the new NVME drive. I have one of those Supermicro RAID cards from 3.0 days so while I was waiting I plugged it into that and put it into the PC. Well now my NVME RAID drive is broken. I had to format them to get them back but no report of the new drive in Windows. Did a restart and once again no access to NVME. Not even in the BIOS. The only NVME I know in the BIOS is my boot drive. The adapter arrives. It is a 4.0 x4 adapter. I take the Supermicro card out. Install the NVME in the new adapter, plug it into the PC, turn it on and I get the pop up when I go into Disk Magmt that lets me know my drive is recognized. I have even seen issues when you change what slot a drive is in. F me I formatted a NV2 using USB C and no computer can recognize the drive. I actully had to plug that into an M2 slot on the MB to get it back. I even had an issue with the MP700 where if I put in one particular 5.0 slot the writes would be like what this post is describing. I know I am not the average user but for me it comes down to PCIe 5.0 being rushed to the desktop. As an example the drive I bought yesterday is as fast as my MP 700 in Crystal DIsk Mark even though it is a 4.0 drive.

 

[Octavean]

This is why we can’t have nice things.

 

[Metroid]

Ironically it might be ok as its more like the b650.

I think is, x870 = 650e and the x870e = x670e.

 

[N3utro]

I've been using a western digital gen4 nvme ssd in the gen5 slot on my asus x670e hero since i bought it and never had any issues. Thanks for the heads up.