Intel and AMD Form x86 Ecosystem Advisory Group

[GFreeman]

Intel Corp. (INTC) and AMD (NASDAQ: AMD) today announced the creation of an x86 ecosystem advisory group bringing together technology leaders to shape the future of the world's most widely used computing architecture. x86 is uniquely positioned to meet customers' emerging needs by delivering superior performance and seamless interoperability across hardware and software platforms. The group will focus on identifying new ways to expand the x86 ecosystem by enabling compatibility across platforms, simplifying software development, and providing developers with a platform to identify architectural needs and features to create innovative and scalable solutions for the future.

For over four decades, x86 has served as the bedrock of modern computing, establishing itself as the preferred architecture in data centers and PCs worldwide. In today's evolving landscape - characterized by dynamic AI workloads, custom chiplets, and advancements in 3D packaging and system architectures - the importance of a robust and expanding x86 ecosystem is more crucial than ever.



"We are on the cusp of one of the most significant shifts in the x86 architecture and ecosystem in decades - with new levels of customization, compatibility and scalability needed to meet current and future customer needs," said Pat Gelsinger, Intel CEO. "We proudly stand together with AMD and the founding members of this advisory group, as we ignite the future of compute, and we deeply appreciate the support of so many industry leaders."

"Establishing the x86 Ecosystem Advisory Group will ensure that the x86 architecture continues evolving as the compute platform of choice for both developers and customers," said Lisa Su, AMD Chair and CEO. "We are excited to bring the industry together to provide direction on future architectural enhancements and extend the incredible success of x86 for decades to come."

The advisory group aims to unite industry leaders to shape the future of x86 and foster developer innovation through a more unified set of instructions and architectural interfaces. This initiative will enhance compatibility, predictability and consistency across x86 product offerings. To achieve this, the group will solicit technical input from the x86 hardware and software communities on essential functions and features. Collaboration will facilitate the creation of consistent and compatible implementations of key x86 architectural features and programming models, extending across all sectors - including data centers, cloud, client, edge and embedded devices - ultimately delivering downstream benefits to customers. The intended outcomes include:

• Enhancing customer choice and compatibility across hardware and software, while accelerating their ability to benefit from new, cutting-edge features.
• Simplifying architectural guidelines to enhance software consistency and standardize interfaces across x86 product offerings from Intel and AMD.
• Enabling greater and more efficient integration of new capabilities into operating systems, frameworks and applications.

As vigorous competitors, Intel and AMD at the same time share a history of industry collaboration focused on platform-level advancements, the introduction of standards, and security vulnerability mitigation within the x86 ecosystem. Their joint efforts have shaped key technologies, including PCI, PCIe, Advanced Configuration and Power Interface (ACPI). Both companies also played a pivotal role in developing USB, a vital connectivity standard for all computers regardless of the processor. This advisory group takes this industry collaboration to the next level for the benefit of the entire computing ecosystem and as a catalyst for product innovation.

CEO Quotes from Founding Members
Broadcom Inc. President and CEO Hock Tan
"We are at a crossroads in the history of computing. The x86 architectural decisions we make today will affect programming models, frameworks and systems for decades to come. Broadcom looks forward to lending its industry perspective to the x86 Ecosystem Advisory Group as a pioneer in silicon development and x86 virtualization with VMware."

Dell Technologies Chairman and CEO Michael Dell
"Dell has a long history of working with the x86 platform. We look forward to collaborating with Intel, AMD and fellow x86 Advisory Group members to continue driving innovation for our customers and partners."

Google Cloud CEO Thomas Kurian
"Google is excited to join this x86 Ecosystem Advisory Group to help shape the future of computing. Taking a pan-industry approach ensures consistent implementations, which aligns with Google's commitment to fostering innovation and providing the best possible experience for our developers and users. By simplifying and standardizing across the x86 ecosystem, we can unlock new levels of performance, efficiency, and ease of use, ultimately accelerating the development and adoption of cutting-edge technologies."

Hewlett Packard Enterprise President and CEO Antonio Neri
"HPE is honored to be a founding member of the x86 Ecosystem Advisory Group, helping shape a consistent future architecture with innovative new features that meet customers' evolving computing needs."

HP Inc. President and CEO Enrique Lores
"We are honored to join Intel, AMD, and other advisory group members to advance the x86 architecture. At HP, we believe that the future of work will require technology that drives growth and fulfillment for both employees and the companies they work for. Building a more efficient, secure, and customizable x86 ecosystem will help accelerate this evolution."

Lenovo Chairman and CEO Yuanqing Yang
"Lenovo is delighted to be one of the founding members of this important new advisory group, given our role in the industry for the past decade. When we work together as an industry ecosystem, we all benefit, but more importantly, so do our customers. I'm looking forward to sharing our technical expertise as we collectively accelerate the growing x86 market across client, edge and cloud."

Microsoft Chairman and CEO Satya Nadella
"x86 has been foundational to modern computing for over four decades, and we want to ensure it continues to evolve and benefit everyone going forward. By bringing together partners across the industry, the x86 Ecosystem Advisory Board will play a critical role in shaping future x86 architectural features and help drive software consistency and standard interfaces."

Oracle CEO Safra Catz
"The x86 architecture has had a profound impact on the computing industry, driving innovations through constant evolution. As a long-time partner with both AMD and Intel, Oracle is proud to be a founding member of the x86 Ecosystem Advisory Group. We are committed to addressing customer needs by delivering technological advancements and fostering collaboration across the ecosystem."

Red Hat President and CEO Matt Hicks
"Red Hat believes that hybrid cloud computing represents the path forward for innovative IT, from cloud-native applications and services to AI and intelligent workloads. Forming the foundation of these great leaps forward is architecture choice, specifically standardized and well-defined architectures like x86. We're pleased to be a founding member of the x86 Ecosystem Advisory Group and look forward to serving as part of the industry vanguard in furthering x86 technologies as a cornerstone of IT's innovative future."

View at TechPowerUp Main Site | Source

 

[dir_d]

Too late as usual, this should have happened years ago. They are just afraid of ARM and RISC and want to put x86 back on top. I really think Intel and AMD should just move on from x86 but of course they want to hold on to the Duopoly.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Too late as usual, this should have happened years ago. They are just afraid of ARM and RISC and want to put x86 back on top. I really think Intel and AMD should just move on from x86 but of course they want to hold on to the Duopoly.

RISC ≠ RISC-V, please don't confuse the two. RISC is not really a threat, whereas RISC-V might be one day. RISC is a bunch of largely defunct standards, whereas RISC-V is an ISA, like Arm and x86/amd64. Also, Arm changed the way they want their name to be written some years ago, so no need for the all caps any more, it's weird, I know.

 

[john_]

Just 25-30 years delay.

 

[dir_d]

RISC ≠ RISC-V, please don't confuse the two. RISC is not really a threat, whereas RISC-V might be one day. RISC is a bunch of largely defunct standards, whereas RISC-V is an ISA, like Arm and x86/amd64.

Sorry i left off the "V" but that's what i meant. This still reeks of Betamax trying to hold on or Blockbuster Video trying to hold on.

 

[Vya Domus]

Too late as usual, this should have happened years ago. They are just afraid of ARM and RISC

If ARM were to replace x86 it would have happened by now.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Sorry i left off the "V" but that's what i meant. This still reeks of Betamax trying to hold on or Blockbuster Video trying to hold on.

In some market segments, for sure, but in others, Arm still has a long way and RISC-V an even longer way to go.

 

[btarunr]

You want to save x86, you open it up to more implementers and set up a royalty model.

 

[dir_d]

In some market segments, for sure, but in others, Arm still has a long way and RISC-V an even longer way to go.

Arm+Accelerators seem to be the way to go. To me it just seems that x86 is slowly falling off but ARM is rising and in 10 years there could be nothing but ARM machines. Software really needs to catch up.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Arm+Accelerators seem to be the way to go. To me it just seems that x86 is slowly falling off but ARM is rising and in 10 years there could be nothing but ARM machines. Software really needs to catch up.

The issue with that is that it requires OS support and most of the Arm chip makers, have proprietary accelerators with proprietary code, which at least in the world of Linux has mean that some of these companies have charged a royalty fee for their customers to take advantage of the accelerators, which often meant that companies didn't implement said features and consumers complained about poor performance...

For Apple, this is not an issue, but for Windows... On top of that, there's a lack of drivers for a lot of things Arm related, regardless of OS, as the chip makers don't always provide a ful set of drivers, but instead rely on the open source community to make those at their leisure.

 

[TristanX]

Needed evolutionay steps, to better compete with ARM / RISCV / OTHERS:
For first step, let they standardize chipsets and sockets, so user can replace Intel CPU with AMD CPU, without changing mobo. Then second step, let create x86R (reset), with reduced instructions, well designed memory models, vector processing, usability for phones / tablets, and other aspects that are currently messed and convoluted. Final third step, license it for any other company that want use any core existing (Intel or AMD) or make their custom core and need only ISA.
But I doubt thet make any of these step. Intel and AMD still want to rule and co-rule, and make these groups to hold grip over these partners, and threate them with 'x86 or ARM' choice.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Needed evolutionay steps, to better compete with ARM / RISCV / OTHERS:
For first step, let they standardize chipsets and sockets, so user can replace Intel CPU with AMD CPU, without changing mobo. Then second step, let create x86R (reset), with reduced instructions, well designed memory models, vector processing, usability for phones / tablets, and other aspects that are currently messed and convoluted. Final third step, license it for any other company that want use any core existing (Intel or AMD) or make their custom core and need only ISA.
But I doubt thet make any of these step. Intel and AMD still want to rule and co-rule, and make these groups to hold grip over these partners, and threate them with 'x86 or ARM' choice.

So you're suggesting we should freeze all hardware development on the motherboard side from now and forever?
The issue with keeping things the same is that no new features can be added, which means we're not going to get any new features and then people are going to start complaining.
Do we need a new socket/chipset every year? No, but at the same time, things are moving forward at a steady pace, so anything older than say three-four years, is going to be so outdated that it's not going to be possible to update things.

It would be impossible to standardise a chipset between AMD and Intel, at least the way things are today, largely due to Intel having so much proprietary tech on their side, whereas AMD is mainly PCIe. I doubt either company would agree to use common CPU sockets, so even if we end up with all chipsets being compatible with either CPU, it's not going to help.

Intel is already working on a reduced instruction set

Intel Updates 64-Bit Only "X86S" Instruction Set Architecture Specification to Version 1.2

Intel has released version 1.2 of its X86S architecture specification. The X86S project, first announced last year, aims to modernize the x86 architecture that has been the heart of PCs since the late 1970s. Over the decades, Intel and AMD have continually expanded x86's capabilities, resulting...

www.techpowerup.com

Intel tried phones and lost billions on it, x86 isn't suitable for that form factor, let's not go there.

Licensing cores aren't going to work, neither company has designed their architectures for something like that and it would not be cost effective, as x86 chips are not like Arm or RISC-V that was designed for modularity.

 

[Daven]

Hopefully this is prelude to Intel exiting the chip design market such that the industry relies on AMD products manufactured by Intel fabs.

 

[_roman_]

Anyone remembers IA-64 (Itanium) from Intel?

Just by chance I saw today - it's dead. -> https://www.gentoo.org/news/2024/08/14/Gentoo-drops-IA-64-support.html

 

[Visible Noise]

Lots of armchair CEO’s ITT.

 

[Craptacular]

If ARM were to replace x86 it would have happened by now.

I mean it kind of already has, ARM is in more devices than x86, and now with Apple moving their entire desktop and laptops to ARM.......AWS is increasingly using ARM CPUs........

 

[Minus Infinity]

You want to save x86, you open it up to more implementers and set up a royalty model.

Dare I say, grant Nvidia a license

Hopefully this is prelude to Intel exiting the chip design market such that the industry relies on AMD products manufactured by Intel fabs.

Horrifically bad idea to allow AMD to become Intel mk II. We need more players not less. Look at what has happened due to Nvidia's dominance.

 

[tfp]

Hopefully this is prelude to Intel exiting the chip design market such that the industry relies on AMD products manufactured by Intel fabs.

Why would this be good for anyone?

 

[R-T-B]

Anyone remembers IA-64 (Itanium) from Intel?

Just by chance I saw today - it's dead. -> https://www.gentoo.org/news/2024/08/14/Gentoo-drops-IA-64-support.html

It was dead well before gentoo dropped support...

 

[Solaris17]

It was dead well before gentoo dropped support...

I think that was kind of the point he was trying to make.

 

[R-T-B]

I think that was kind of the point he was trying to make.

Well, ok, that's fine but gentoo is a horrible metric for whether something is actively supported is my main point.

EDIT: Why funny? Plenty of defunct stuff is supported by gentoo you know... they still support the friggin PPC970 aka the Mac G5.

 

[Vya Domus]

I mean it kind of already has, ARM is in more devices than x86

If you're talking about things like mobile phones it hasn't, x86 never had a significant share of that market so you can't say it has replaced anything if it was never really there to begin with. As far as the server space ARM still has a very small footprint. ARM cannot ever really succeed in displacing x86 in that market because it's not backed by any huge corporation with billions to spare on R&D and the IPs of AMD or Intel, that's what you need to consistently deliver competitive chips year after year.

 

[Solaris17]

Anyone remembers IA-64 (Itanium) from Intel?

Just by chance I saw today - it's dead. -> https://www.gentoo.org/news/2024/08/14/Gentoo-drops-IA-64-support.html

Atleast there is still 1 keeping it alive in GCC.

GCC 15 Un-Deprecates Itanium IA-64 Linux Support - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

 

[TristanX]

So you're suggesting we should freeze all hardware development on the motherboard side from now and forever?
The issue with keeping things the same is that no new features can be added, which means we're not going to get any new features and then people are going to start complaining.
Do we need a new socket/chipset every year? No, but at the same time, things are moving forward at a steady pace, so anything older than say three-four years, is going to be so outdated that it's not going to be possible to update things.

It would be impossible to standardise a chipset between AMD and Intel, at least the way things are today, largely due to Intel having so much proprietary tech on their side, whereas AMD is mainly PCIe. I doubt either company would agree to use common CPU sockets, so even if we end up with all chipsets being compatible with either CPU, it's not going to help.

Intel is already working on a reduced instruction set

Intel Updates 64-Bit Only "X86S" Instruction Set Architecture Specification to Version 1.2

Intel has released version 1.2 of its X86S architecture specification. The X86S project, first announced last year, aims to modernize the x86 architecture that has been the heart of PCs since the late 1970s. Over the decades, Intel and AMD have continually expanded x86's capabilities, resulting...

www.techpowerup.com

Intel tried phones and lost billions on it, x86 isn't suitable for that form factor, let's not go there.

Licensing cores aren't going to work, neither company has designed their architectures for something like that and it would not be cost effective, as x86 chips are not like Arm or RISC-V that was designed for modularity.

- currently both AMD and Intel chipsets are pretty independent from CPU, and communicate with it using PCIE under diffrent names. Currently at hardware level there is nothing to prevent use Ryzens with Intel chipsets and vice versa. Making PCH as CPU-vendor-independent, could be best way to push truly innovative features to be more competitive., For now they just use 'proprietary refresh'.

- long use AM4 socket do not prevented adding new features. At Intel you have insanity with LGA 1156, 1155, 1150, 1151 and 1200. Do few pins difference really justify any innovation barriers ? On most mobos you can find third party chipsets for sound / wifi / lan etc

- x86S is just too small change. They should make new ISA with 20% instructions, clear programming model and without legacy burden. Then OS / apps will begin to use new ISA, while old soft continue to use current legacy ISA. At some point legacy ISA could by dunped from hardware and be accesible only via emulation.

But both Intel and AMD want to sit in their comfortable duopoly position, forcing users to frequent changes and overspend on buying features. For ISA they continue to make snowball approach, and best example is adding APX and AVX10 with distinction for hardware vector length, totally opposite what developers suggest. But it will be helpfull to marketing is as 'new innovative features'.

 

[Craptacular]

If you're talking about things like mobile phones it hasn't, x86 never had a significant share of that market so you can't say it has replaced anything if it was never really there to begin with. As far as the server space ARM still has a very small footprint. ARM cannot ever really succeed in displacing x86 in that market because it's not backed by any huge corporation with billions to spare on R&D and the IPs of AMD or Intel, that's what you need to consistently deliver competitive chips year after year.

Well, actually you can, more and more people are replacing desktop PCs, and even laptops with just smart phones or tablets. Laptops are completely ARM for Apple Macs, and we saw the recent Windows laptops that are ARM based CPUs, those are not going away and will only be increasing. Cloud companies definitely have the billions of dollars to spare designing custom ARM CPUs for data centers, we have already seen that with Amazon and its AWS Graviton series of CPUs. Google is getting ready to launch their ARM CPUs for the Google Cloud Platform next year. Microsoft is already designing and using ARM CPUs for their Azure services.

The only real last holdout is the Windows Desktop PC.