Nintendo Switch 2 PCB Leak Reveals an NVIDIA Tegra T239 Chip Optically Shrunk to 5nm

[freeagent]

We bought our switch in 2015 I think.. really has it been that long? It still gets used everyday lol. The boys just have most of the Mario games on there, and YouTube. I am looking forward to the new switch, should be awesome

 

[ToTTenTranz]

NVIDIA originally built the T239 on Samsung 8 nm DUV foundry node, but the semi-custom chip powering the Switch 2 is very likely built on the Samsung 5 nm EUV node. This node offers a 70% transistor density increase over 8 nm, and Nintendo Prime calculates that the chip in the picture is roughly that much smaller than the 341 mm² die area of what the NVIDIA Orin would be with 2/3rd its CPU core and iGPU SM count. The chip in the pictures is estimated to has a die size of roughly 200 mm².

Why are you assuming the chip is made on 5nm and not 8nm, instead of assuming there's less than 8 CPU cores and 12 SM on a 8nm chip because it's a 2021 design that Nintendo has been sitting on since then?

Just two weeks ago Nvidia announced the Jetson Orin Nano Super with 6x Cortex A78 and 8 SM / 1024 cuda cores, so this could perfectly be the Switch 2's SoC and it would match the die area just as well.

And Nvidia releasing their own hardware using the same chips they sell to Nintendo has become standard practice. In 2017 they released a revised Shield TV using the same TX1 as the Switch, and in 2019 they released another Shield TV with the Mariko shrink to 16nm.

The T239 features a 3-tiered hybrid CPU consisting of one Arm Cortex X1 HP-core, three Cortex A78 P-cores, and four Cortex A55 E-cores, with Arm DynamIQ, a hardware-based scheduler.

There's practically zero data pointing to the existence of a Cortex X1 or A55 cores in T239. There's never been any mention of anything other than Cortex A78.
What's this Nintendo Prime's track history in hardware leaks?

 

[igormp]

I just looked it up:
When someone is interested on the switch grapic card: https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/switch-gpu-20nm.c3104

If the specification for the switch 2 are correct this is definitely not potatoe hardware.

Can anyone please translate this to a nvidia gpu please? What does this compare to?


Can someone compare this to a current snapdragon smartphone processor please?

That GPU would be slower than a RTX 3050, but should be faster than a GTX 1650.
That CPU config seems weird given how the original Orin has 8x A78, but that would be similar to a Snapdragon 888, the one found in the S21.

Just two weeks ago Nvidia announced the Jetson Orin Nano Super with 6x Cortex A78 and 8 SM / 1024 cuda cores, so this could perfectly be the Switch 2's SoC and it would match the die area just as well.

And Nvidia releasing their own hardware using the same chips they sell to Nintendo has become standard practice. In 2017 they released a revised Shield TV using the same TX1 as the Switch, and in 2019 they released another Shield TV with the Mariko shrink to 16nm.

The Orin Nano Super is just a clock bump and new memories onto the old Orin Nano from 2023. But yeah, agreed that it's likely they'll be using this SoC for it.

There's practically zero data pointing to the existence of a Cortex X1 or A55 cores in T239. There's never been any mention of anything other than Cortex A78.

Same, I don't doubt they'd change the config, but I believe it'd be easier to just go with an homogeneous config that already exists.

 

[Darc Requiem]

Why are you assuming the chip is made on 5nm and not 8nm, instead of assuming there's less than 8 CPU cores and 12 SM on a 8nm chip because it's a 2021 design that Nintendo has been sitting on since then?

Just two weeks ago Nvidia announced the Jetson Orin Nano Super with 6x Cortex A78 and 8 SM / 1024 cuda cores, so this could perfectly be the Switch 2's SoC and it would match the die area just as well.

And Nvidia releasing their own hardware using the same chips they sell to Nintendo has become standard practice. In 2017 they released a revised Shield TV using the same TX1 as the Switch, and in 2019 they released another Shield TV with the Mariko shrink to 16nm.




There's practically zero data pointing to the existence of a Cortex X1 or A55 cores in T239. There's never been any mention of anything other than Cortex A78.
What's this Nintendo Prime's track history in hardware leaks?

The Nvidia Shield released with the Tegra X1 in 2015. It's in the Switch because in Nvidia gave Nintendo a sweet heart deal on the chip later on. Nvidia had no idea that Tegra X1 was going to be used by Nintendo initially.

Edit: It's an open secret that the T239 is a cut down version of the T234 designed for use by Nintendo. Nintendo just needs to officially reveal the Switch 2. It's been all but revealed at this point.

 

[QuietBob]

Some napkin math:

The Ampere-based GPU to power the Switch 2 is speculated to have 12 SMs grouped in 6 Texture Processing Clusters. This translates to 1,536 CUDA cores (128 per SM), with 48 Tensor cores and 6 RT cores.

A standard implementation of the Jetson Orin SoC uses 2,048, 1,792, 1,024 or 512 CUDA cores grouped in 8, 7, 4 or 2 TPCs respectively. So in terms of specs, the custom Switch 2 GPU is slightly below the second fastest implementation:

The 1,792 CUDA implementation, the AGX Orin 32 GB, achieves 3.4 TFLOPS (FP32) theoretical graphics performance with a GPU clock of up to 930 MHz, and a TDP of up to 40 W for the whole SoC.

The 1,024 CUDA implementation, the Orin NX 16 GB, achieves 1.9 TFLOPS (FP32) theoretical graphics performance with a GPU clock of up to 918 MHz, and a TDP of up to 25 W for the whole SoC.

Being a handheld hybrid, it's unlikely that the Switch 2 would utilize the 40 W power budget of the AGX Orin 32 GB SoC. Consequently, I'd speculate the GPU to be closer in performance to the Orin NX, with maybe 2.5 TFLOPS peak, or around half of the mobile RTX3050.

 

[clopezi]

I think we cannot discard that this time, the console can have two profiles, one for handheld with 15W TDP and another one for docked mode, with 40W TDP. The same way Xbox force developers to Series X and Series S, maybe Nintendo it's playing with this to make a difference on docked mode

 

[phints]

5nm? Ouch. At least there will be room for a mid-gen refresh for 3nm or 2nm in 3-4 years for big perf/watt gains.

15W TDP handheld? Umm no. Switch was 6W to maintain decent battery life, this should be the same. Something like 6W handheld, 25W docked would make sense.

 

[igormp]

Some napkin math:

The Ampere-based GPU to power the Switch 2 is speculated to have 12 SMs grouped in six Texture Processing Clusters. This translates to 1,536 CUDA cores (128 per SM), with 48 Tensor cores and 6 RT cores.

A standard implementation of the Jetson Orin SoC uses 2,048, 1,792, 1,024 or 512 CUDA cores. In terms of specs, the custom Switch 2 GPU is slightly below the second fastest implementation:
View attachment 378073
That implementation, the AGX Orin 32 GB, achieves 3.4 TFLOPS (FP32) theoretical graphics performance with a GPU clock of up to 930 MHz, and a TDP of up to 40 W for the whole SoC.

The 1,024 CUDA implementation, the Orin NX, achieves 1.9 TFLOPS (FP32) theoretical graphics performance with a GPU clock of up to 918 MHz, and a TDP of up to 25 W for the whole SoC.

Being a handheld hybrid, it's unlikely that the Switch 2 would utilize the 40 W power budget of the AGX Orin 32 GB SoC. Consequently, I'd speculate the GPU to be closer in performance to the Orin NX, with maybe 2.5 TFLOPS peak, or around a half of the mobile RTX3050.

The orin nano super got some really nice clock bumps, and also a higher wattage to go with it, but I'm not sure if the lower power modes retain the previous clocks or if those have been increased as well.

 

[LastDudeALive]

This addresses one of the biggest issues I saw with the initial announcement. Repurposing an existing Ampere SoC seemed like such a poor choice for a mobile chip on the power guzzling 8nm node when the much more power efficient Ada was available, and they surely had the leverage to demand a custom chip. But since it's shrunk to 5nm with other customization, that's going to massively improve power efficiency and performance.

I still think a custom Ada SoC would have been better, especially since Nvidia's launching Blackwell and likely would have appreciated a reliable ongoing order for the older silicon so they can focus on pushing Blackwell, but Samsung probably gave a nice discount for the business.

 

[TechLurker]

All I care about is if it can be jailbroken like the early Switch, which had becoming my main go-to playing both Switch game and copies of my old GB/GBA/DS cartridges on an emulator (before I got a Steam Deck and shifted to emulation on it to include old PS1 and PS2 games).

At any rate, I find the double-standards hilarious; most everyone praises Nintendo for keeping their games behind a locked ecosystem and denying their release on PC via legal means, but pan Sony for doing the same on PS and demand and praise them for allowing games to release on PC later on or at the same time. If anything, Nintendo should be treated just the same and forced to release their games outside of the Nintendo ecosystem too, even if they mandate an exclusivity period, and instead keep up the quality of most of their in-house games (and fix whatever is going on at Gamefreak, allowing for the worst-performing Pokemon games to release in recent years).

 

[LastDudeALive]

All I care about is if it can be jailbroken like the early Switch, which had becoming my main go-to playing both Switch game and copies of my old GB/GBA/DS cartridges on an emulator (before I got a Steam Deck and shifted to emulation on it to include old PS1 and PS2 games).

At any rate, I find the double-standards hilarious; most everyone praises Nintendo for keeping their games behind a locked ecosystem and denying their release on PC via legal means, but pan Sony for doing the same on PS and demand and praise them for allowing games to release on PC later on or at the same time. If anything, Nintendo should be treated just the same and forced to release their games outside of the Nintendo ecosystem too, even if they mandate an exclusivity period, and instead keep up the quality of most of their in-house games (and fix whatever is going on at Gamefreak, allowing for the worst-performing Pokemon games to release in recent years).

I'm sure they've patched old jailbreak methods and done their best to not include any new ones, but dedicated nerds will always find a way. It will only be a matter of time, especially with such high demand for it.

As for the double standards, I do see your point, although there is a couple differences. First, any of Nintendo's IP's absolutely smashes everything Sony has put together. Mario, Zelda, Super Smash Bros, Pokemon, etc, any one of those is vastly more significant than Snoy cutscene slop like Last of Us or God of War. Like it or not, Nintendo's IP has the popularity to financially justify Switch exclusivity, Sony's does not. Keeping their IP exclusive to their consoles and imposing a high quality standard has been their MO since the N64, and it's worked, since they are the last true "console" manufacturer left.

 

[chrcoluk]

This is just my own opinion. But making an new console, that is already inferior to every single handleld on the market, while not even being out yet. This is just the unreasonable waste of time and resourses. Nintendo wans to people play their games, locked within their outdated HW.
What would be more reasonable, is to easen the deady morgul grasp, and sell their games, though other stores, like Steam/EGS, or handheld makers. One-time purchase, or as a renting service. Even if it will be hardware locked to the particular console, like OEM licence, or by a special chip. They would still sell millions more copies, even considering the handheld console market alone. That's excluding the massive increase of Nintendo public image. A lot more would buy.

Quality of the software is king.

Nintendo not only make good games, but I expect the games to perform well on the hardware, we have learnt in recent years that big hardware gains can be made but with trash level optimisation on the software side games perform like crap.

Pretty impressed with what my switch can do, this should be even more impressive, especially when factoring in DLSS.

Compare this thing to the PS5, its a far bigger marvel as wont be the size of a dozen bricks.

 

[Rjc31]

We bought our switch in 2015 I think.. really has it been that long? It still gets used everyday lol. The boys just have most of the Mario games on there, and YouTube. I am looking forward to the new switch, should be awesome

Switch launched worldwide on March 3rd, 2017 but I agree with everything else!

 

[LastDudeALive]

Quality of the software is king.

Exactly. In the handheld (non-Switch) market, that's why the Steam Deck is still the #1 seller by far, despite having significantly worse hardware than the ROG Ally, MSI Claw, etc. The software is intuitive and console-like. Very easy to turn on, download your Steam Games, and play with controls, Proton, etc automatically set up (while also still allowing power users to go into Desktop mode to install emulators and additional games). The software of the competitors is always the #1 complaint in reviews I've seen and holds back their sales.

And hardware improvements have long since stopped doing anything meaningful for consoles. Comparing PS4 games to their PS5 and "PS5 Pro Enhanced" ports has become a meme at this point, the improvements are so minuscule. The next step of graphical improvements is ray tracing, which neither the Switch nor Xbox/Playstation can do yet.

As long as the Switch 2 can output ~PS4 level graphics with the help of DLSS, it will be both a significant improvement over the Switch and be more than enough to allow Nintendo and 3rd party developers to create good looking games functionally indistinguishable from the latest AAAA slop.

 

[Octavean]

We've got a partial fingerprint on the chip,.....

 

[yfn_ratchet]

I mean... it's neat. It's a cute little mobile console that will probably blow literally every other ARM-based handheld out of the water the moment it drops assuming you can crack it open and do as you wish with it like with pre-patch Switch 1s. Still, not the killer that the hype train built it up to be, as should have been expected. Somewhat old tech in a console that's probably been bickered over at meetings since 2017. I'll await the NetherSX2 benchmarking, lol.

 

[v12dock]

Just release already... I am anticipating the Shield 2 with RTX HDR more than the Switch 2.

 

[Neo_Morpheus]

And an awesome marketing team that knows their target market.

its a miracle that company isn't hated more considering their behaviour towards fans of the ip.

Agreed and its the reason why I refuse to give them a penny.
I jumped of when the N64 cartridges were too expensive and their anti gamers attitude (i know, weird statement considering but correct)

Exactly. Nintendo sells because of its games, not because of its hardware specs.

Even though, i would dare say, the snes, n64 and gamecube were actually very powerful but then they scaled down.

 

[eidairaman1]

Exactly. Nintendo sells because of its games, not because of its hardware specs.

They didn't do as well with the Gamecube, They did ok with the Wii, but dumpster fired with WiiU. Wii felt like it was for children and the Other consoles for Teens to Adults.

 

[clopezi]

They didn't do as well with the Gamecube, They did ok with the Wii, but dumpster fired with WiiU. Wii felt like it was for children and the Other consoles for Teens to Adults.

But that's it's a single read. They didn't well with GameCube but at the same time almost, GBA and specially NDS, was a big success. WiiU was a failure, but N3DS was a success too (not too big as NDS). With Switch, Nintendo have only one hardware, and they launch game after game every year. This it's the way for them.

 

[Naito]

Just release already... I am anticipating the Shield 2 with RTX HDR more than the Switch 2.

Agreed. Desperately need a new Shield!

 

[SOAREVERSOR]

I'm sure they've patched old jailbreak methods and done their best to not include any new ones, but dedicated nerds will always find a way. It will only be a matter of time, especially with such high demand for it.

As for the double standards, I do see your point, although there is a couple differences. First, any of Nintendo's IP's absolutely smashes everything Sony has put together. Mario, Zelda, Super Smash Bros, Pokemon, etc, any one of those is vastly more significant than Snoy cutscene slop like Last of Us or God of War. Like it or not, Nintendo's IP has the popularity to financially justify Switch exclusivity, Sony's does not. Keeping their IP exclusive to their consoles and imposing a high quality standard has been their MO since the N64, and it's worked, since they are the last true "console" manufacturer left.

Their own IP has always been on their own hardware really. That is how they maintain their quality. It's a symbiotic relationship. The moment they cease that and release on other platforms is the moment the quality goes down and Nintendo and all their IP goes away. Asking for Zelda on PC asking to stop having Zelda ever again. They release and optomize like crazy for themselves and work hand in hand with their partners to do the same. For companies that release on multiplatform they won't say no but they impose strict standards.

There's nothing dirty or underhanded about it. The power of their IP isn't just the name Mario it's the quality control they can only execute focused on just one hardware. Multiplatform games are train wrecks. Especially ports and especially on the PC with all it's hardware configurations. Nintendo going down that road would be suicide and take down them and their IP permanently.

This has always worked for them. What they learned with how their handhelds did while the N64 and Gamecube got crushed, followed by the Wii being a hit is that having the best hardware and fanciest graphics doesn't mean jack shit. It's the games. And the games don't have to look the best they have to be fun and polished and optomized better than what everyone else can do. They own fun, and the secret sauce in their polish is designing their own consoles and not caring what anyone else does and only releasing on their consoles.

The really know what they are doing and what people actually want.

 

[TechLurker]

As for the double standards, I do see your point, although there is a couple differences. First, any of Nintendo's IP's absolutely smashes everything Sony has put together. Mario, Zelda, Super Smash Bros, Pokemon, etc, any one of those is vastly more significant than Snoy cutscene slop like Last of Us or God of War. Like it or not, Nintendo's IP has the popularity to financially justify Switch exclusivity, Sony's does not. Keeping their IP exclusive to their consoles and imposing a high quality standard has been their MO since the N64, and it's worked, since they are the last true "console" manufacturer left.

I'd like to point out that while true to an extent, Sony and Xbox were also panned for this even in the PS3/X360 and PS4/X1 era, before they started shifting towards only AA and AAA interactive movies. Again, while it's true Nintendo's offerings are superior in the current generation, there's no reason they can't also release it on PC while demanding the same level of quality; if not better. Heck, emulated Switch games look even better on PC with only minor tweaks. It's not like Nintendo can't maintain the level of quality either; most of those games are made in-house or in game companies they effectively own. If anything, Sony should take a hint and exert more control over their own studios. The issue is that they're too hands-off ever since allowing the PS division to shift their HQ to the West and focus too much on "ultra realistic" quality over just quality games large and small. Hell, they have trouble even trying to launch some modern successors to classic games like Spyro and Crash just because those aren't seen as AAA-worthy.

 

[AusWolf]

I'd like to point out that while true to an extent, Sony and Xbox were also panned for this even in the PS3/X360 and PS4/X1 era, before they started shifting towards only AA and AAA interactive movies. Again, while it's true Nintendo's offerings are superior in the current generation, there's no reason they can't also release it on PC while demanding the same level of quality; if not better. Heck, emulated Switch games look even better on PC with only minor tweaks. It's not like Nintendo can't maintain the level of quality either; most of those games are made in-house or in game companies they effectively own. If anything, Sony should take a hint and exert more control over their own studios. The issue is that they're too hands-off ever since allowing the PS division to shift their HQ to the West and focus too much on "ultra realistic" quality over just quality games large and small. Hell, they have trouble even trying to launch some modern successors to classic games like Spyro and Crash just because those aren't seen as AAA-worthy.

If Nintendo released their games for the PC, that would seriously hurt their Switch sales. Never gonna happen. That's why they're fighting emulators so fiercely.

 

[SOAREVERSOR]

If Nintendo released their games for the PC, that would seriously hurt their Switch sales. Never gonna happen. That's why they're fighting emulators so fiercely.

It's not just about Switch sales though that is important. It's quality and reputation. In Japan the PC is the garbage platform. It's for hentai games. Nintendo does not want to be associated with it all costs.

Quality is the most important. Nintendo maintains their quality standards on their IP by only releasing for one platform that they control. They know it and the dev kits inside and out. They don't have to spend time on other platforms and worry about crappy ports or releases. The PC is the worst platform for them to ever move to due to all the hardware requirements.

Releasing on PC is the end of Nintendo and all their IP and the death of their reputation. Now I'm sure mUH G4m1nG!!!! PC will gladly let that happen while screaming for free nvidia GPUs because it's that selfish of a group but it's not gonna happen. And nobody who actually loves their games wants it to happen.

Emulation is theft. Flat out. There is no way to justify it. If you want to do it that's fine. I do it with stuff that isn't around anymore. But I don't lie that it isn't theft and it makes me a thief and if someone stopped me or sued me over it they would be in the right and I would be in the wrong. That the PC gaming community has earned a reputation of theft, cheating, and complaining about not being treated special along with the worst gamer toxicity out there makes me sad. But it is entirely true, was earned over decades, and has gotten much worse.