AMD Explains Missing RDNA 4 Announcements At CES

[kapone32]

I haven’t missed a thing. Just because a product exists doesn’t mean it’s successful. Handheld PC gaming is a tiny tiny niche. Ask the average person on the street what a Steamdeck is and they will have no idea. Now ask the average person on the street what a Switch is and either they or their kids will have one.

Prove me wrong, show me some somewhat citable sales numbers.

AMD’s Graphics Division made a profit of $12M last quarter. They have said in their investor call that console revenue is declining quickly, it‘s the end of console cycle. You’re in fantasy land if you think Steamdeck type products are going to make up for the revenue loss from Xbox and PlayStation. Do you think AMD is able to get as much money from small off the shelf mobile SOC as they get for the big custom chips in the colsoles?

Are AMD APUs Graphics cards or CPUs?

 

[3valatzy]

We know the die size - 390mm. Roughly 15% larger than 7800 XT.

How low do you think it can be priced?

It depends on how many AMD wants to sell. Lower means more sales.
390 mm^2 is definitely too large. A guess is that they invested too much area for ray-tracing units. Because a so large chip with so few compute units (64 or 4096 shaders) doesn't make sense.

 

[G777]

I wish someone could explain me why RDNA 3 cards won't get FSR 4, or at least some lesser version e.g. FSR 3.9, aided by some AI features.

From the article:

AMD said that FSR 4 uses a machine-learning based algorithm to reconstruct details in its super resolution component, and that RDNA 4 provides a significant uplift in MLops over the previous generations of RDNA, and so initially FSR 4 will be available on the RX 9000 series, but the company will assess specific SKUs from previous generations that it thinks are capable of the AI acceleration performance needed for FSR 4 SR algorithm to work without imposing a prohibitive performance or latency cost.

 

[Random_User]

Oh my fcking god. What a mess. 9070XT is already DOA

This is a mess indeed. Maybe it's not particularly DOA, but AMD has done everything for it to look like that. Such a sour taste, that leaves absolutely no interest left for the product series, that is not even released yet. This is simply unbelievable how the company can hate own products that much, that decided to sabotage it this way. It's kind like they wanna and don't want to show/shy of their stuff at same time. At this point, AMD would have better give basically zero info about RDNA4 at all, and make it complete mystery, until the release date.

Let's be clear, this was just the perfect time and chance, to advertise and gone a second breath into the Radeon brand's name, and it's public image. This was about the thing to revive interest into it. And AMD just took a shovel and dug it so deep, where the sun doesn't shine anymore. This is just baffling. Whoever is behind this marketing, is just complete enemy to the AMD's Radeon brand.

And this is after so many AIB cards being already done, so much efforts put into this. This is even worse than a last moment, temporary knee-jerk solution, that Radeon VII was. This is obvious, that AMD has different priorities. But shoving the disgrace towards ow products leaves no confidence for the potential customers.

After this flop, nVidia is just has basically an open road to their entire upcoming stack.

 

[bug]

The 5070 may actually be “weaker” than the 4070 Super, as it shows on paper. It has fewer cores at 6144 compared to the SUPER’s 7168, but maybe the newer GDDR7 and architectural improvements would push it over a bit.

The 5070 Ti should more or less be better than the 4070 Ti Super with the 256-bit memory bus and slightly more cores, and most likely 128 ROPs.

Even with only minute improvements over the 4070, I believe 5070 will score too close for comfort.
Don't get me wrong, I was always about the mid-range cards (and still am). But where I was hoping AMD would really put pressure on Nvidia, it now seems they'll play the "me, too" card. Again.

 

[3valatzy]

This is a mess indeed. Maybe it's not particularly DOA, but AMD has done everything for it to look like that. Such a sour taste, that leaves absolutely no interest left for the product series, that is not even released. This is simply unbelievable how the company can hate own products that much, that decided to sabotage it this way. It's kind like they wanna and don't want to show/shy of their stuff at same time. At this point, AMD would have better give basically zero info about RDNA4 at all, and make it complete mystery, until the release date.

Let's be clear, this was just the perfect time and chance, to advertise and gone a second breath into the Radeon brand's name, and it's public image. This was about the thing to revive interest into it. And AMD just took a shovel and dug it so deep, where the sun doesn't shine anymore. This is just baffling. Whoever is behind this marketing, is just complete enemy to the AMD's Radeon brand.

And this is after so many AIB cards being already done, so much efforts put into this. This is even worse than a last moment, temporary knee-jerk solution, that Radeon VII was. This is obvious, that AMD has different priorities. But shoving the disgrace towards ow products leaves no confidence for the potential customers.

After this flop, nVidia is just has basically an open road to their entire upcoming stack.

Maybe there is contract between Lisa Su and her uncle JHH to not compete? There is no other normal explanation as to why AMD is so determined to leave the graphics cards market.
This is also the reason why it is the best for AMD to let Su go.

 

[Cheeseball]

Maybe there is contract between Lisa Su and her uncle JHH to not compete? There is no other normal explanation as to why AMD is so determined to leave the graphics cards market.
This is also the reason why it is the best for AMD to let Su go.

This would not make sense when the CPU division is thriving.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

It depends on how many AMD wants to sell. Lower means more sales.
390 mm^2 is definitely too large. A guess is that they invested too much area for ray-tracing units. Because a so large chip with so few compute units (64 or 4096 shaders) doesn't make sense.

There has got to be more to this story.

4080S is a 377mm^2 4N die. Either the size of the die is wrong, or the performance is wrong, or the CU count is wrong. Or AMD really screwed the pooch that badly.

Something is wrong.

 

[Cheeseball]

Even with only minute improvements over the 4070, I believe 5070 will score too close for comfort.
Don't get me wrong, I was always about the mid-range cards (and still am). But where I was hoping AMD would really put pressure on Nvidia, it now seems they'll play the "me, too" card. Again.

It'll most likely end up like the RTX 3060 12GB vs the RTX 4060, where the 4060 is 10% to 20% faster in general despite having weaker specs on-paper.

 

[sLowEnd]

I suspect AMD is not very confident in their own product, if they're acting like this

 

[3valatzy]

This would not make sense when the CPU division is thriving.

Nvidia doesn't compete with AMD's CPU division. I know Nvidia wants that x86, but the best for us is to not get it ever. Even a hostile takeover of Nvidia over AMD will not be given a green light.
The only thing that saves AMD for now is the presence of a x86 license.

 

[Cheeseball]

Nvidia doesn't compete with AMD's CPU division. I know Nvidia wants that x86, but the best for us is to not get it ever. Even a hostile takeover of Nvidia over AMD will not be given a green light.
The only thing that saves AMD for now is the presence of a x86 license.

No, no I mean your comment about "This is also the reason why it is the best for AMD to let Su go." That wouldn't make sense when it was under her leadership that the CPU division was able to grow to what it is today.

If anything, what AMD should do is find someone who can concentrate on leading the Radeon division or at least the discrete graphics consumer part of it.

 

[Visible Noise]

Are AMD APUs Graphics cards or CPUs?

You implied they are graphics cards:

Handhelds are going to keep AMD Graphics going.

I know you wouldn’t attempt to move the goalposts, so I’ll just assume you’re confused

 

[Wirko]

GTX 900 series, intel 9000 series, AMD Ryzen 9000 series.
I don't count moving a number from second to third place as a new naming scheme. It's just a useless change, that really won't change anything and don't follow a big architecture change or any manufacturing evolution.

It still is a new numbering scheme, and the digit that's supposed to mark the generation is 9, no less. How do you continue counting from 9? Is it A? Is it zero? Is it 10? Alpha? Perhaps 10 written as X (we need more cowbell)? Or maybe 8, why not?

 

[kapone32]

You implied they are graphics cards:


I know you wouldn’t attempt to move the goalposts, so I’ll just assume you’re confused

It does not matter what I imply. What did AMD list them as in their 3rd Quarter numbers?


I am confused? When we know that Strix Point is coming? Have you ever seen MSI or Asus release a notebook without a DGPU? Have you ever seen a new format come as fast as the Ally, Legion and the absolute litany of handhelds from that 1 Chinese supplier? You have it in your head that AMD Graphics are useless and are using the drop in GPU revenue as a basis. I asked you if the APUs were a part of those numbers and you came back with moving goal posts. It does not matter how much we do Spy vs Spy AMD still made over 3 billion in profit last quarter. What I don't understand is Nvidia has already won the narrative battle but people still love to bash AMD at every chance like we should be disgusted with what they are offering. Today is not the first time that an uninformed comment that Lisa Su must go shows how deep it goes. I had to add it. Zotac are releasing a handheld. Do they make AMD GPUs? Well they are using an AMD chip in that. How many are using Intel again? can you list them?

 

[Dr. Dro]

I suspect AMD is not very confident in their own product, if they're acting like this

Yeah, that seems to be the case. They are being unusually meek about it and I reckon it's possible the 5070 sent them in a frenzy trying to come up with a price point for this thing, except that... they might not be able to make it look competitive due to BoM cost or something. It's all speculation for now but it really did leave a particularly poor impression.

 

[DaemonForce]

It's more than likely they just don't have any information or units to demo.
Drivers not ready, no units ready, no slides ready for CES...
They went into this keeping hush about RDNA4 because there's nothing ready.
It could also be it's going to be another paper launch product that gets quickly snubbed by orders.
Probably can't fill the fab with this one.

 

[Visible Noise]

It does not matter what I imply. What did AMD list them as in their 3rd Quarter numbers?


I am confused?

Zooooommmm…

It's more than likely they just don't have any information or units to demo.
Drivers not ready, no units ready, no slides ready for CES...
They went into this keeping hush about RDNA4 because there's nothing ready.
It could also be it's going to be another paper launch product that gets quickly snubbed by orders.
Probably can't fill the fab with this one.

I’m still going with Vega 2.0. The damage to their reputation and finances is going to be catastrophic.

AMD still made over 3 billion in profit last quarter.

Whoa dude, whatever you are on can you send me some please?

AMD Reports Third Quarter 2024 Financial Results


SANTA CLARA, Calif. ― October 29, 2024 ― AMD (NASDAQ:AMD) today announced revenue for the third quarter of 2024 of $6.8 billion, gross margin of 50%, operating income of $724 million, net income of $771 million and diluted earnings per share of $0.47.

 

[Dr. Dro]

I’m still going with Vega 2.0. The damage to their reputation and finances is going to be catastrophic.

I mean, it can't get much worse. The only people left using Radeon dGPUs are diehard fans who swore to stick by them... and even these people's loyalty, which is rooted in nothing but their own bias and insanity, is being put to the test by now.

 

[DaemonForce]

Nah. Ya'll seriously overestimating here. There are other creators on Radeon. Some act exclusive to it because "poverty" or whatever.
I tried to guide one through choosing components today, she was looking up AM5 boards and it was hella cringe.
I think it might have something to do with young people on old junk and it's mostly right.
"Why is there math in the name?" - Reference to the ASUS TUF GAMING X870-PLUS WIFI AMD AM5 X870 ATX motherboard, 16+2+1, 80A SPS...
"Lol I ain't readin all dat"
"Who's reading cards? I just stick it in the machine and let it do its thing." - In direct reference to these $700+ absolute brick sized video cards...
"Everything I just read, I'm gonna forget ALL of it by tomorrow."

I think that's fair. Artists, autists, what have you...They're not us.
They're built a little different. Maybe incorrectly.
I didn't stick around to get hit with any non-Euclidean slurs so we're good.
Guys, it goes back to what I've been saying about video cards.
People don't give a shit about any of this. They see a familiar brand, ask if it's good and "cool, ship it." Done.
That's how ANY of these companies survive long enough to make a sale.
People don't want to look at specs or DOA stats, they don't google "problems with X" or "why X sucks" they just get it.
If they had the time or energy to pour into even a little bit of that, they probably wouldn't be (starving) artists let alone a skrunkly PNG slideshow.
A lot of them game sometimes but they all tend to hit the go live button ritualistically. They have some good ideas like 1080p60 desktop and VR.
Too bad they don't pay attention to stuff that behaves exactly the way they want.

 

[remekra]

Well they even have FSR4 up and running in the booth and it looks great:

Makes it even more bizarre on why they decided to completely skip it in the keynote

 

[ZoneDymo]

1. Fire Azor already pls, he is the complete opposite of what Tom Peterson is doing over at Intel's gpu department.
2. "To this, AMD agreed that it cannot commit to a naming scheme, it constantly assesses the market and consumer behavior, and implements whatever works."
Oh yeah, because you guys TOTALLY know what works, the massive sales compared to the competition show that for suuuure.

Christ I HATE AMD at times.

"The company does not have to prove its ability to create enthusiast-segment GPUs, that's just not where the market is at."

Would have loved if the journalists would have continued on that point, DF member John Linneman has stated that he feels the inclusion of a halo product is needed for product perception and I think that is true to an extend, thought I guess you can have your halo product in a lower segment as well.
Like im sure there would be more real world hype for a super solid super affordable cool fast hatchback from Honda then a Ferrari, the Ferrari is fun but just something to look at on youtube, while the Honda is something you would go and buy as long as it really just wins against the competition, makes on feel good about the purchase.

But man....how long has it been since AMD actually had the top dog, I think the doubled up AMD 295X2 was the last one

 

[kapone32]

I mean, it can't get much worse. The only people left using Radeon dGPUs are diehard fans who swore to stick by them... and even these people's loyalty, which is rooted in nothing but their own bias and insanity, is being put to the test by now.

Yeah because Nvidia's pricing is so competitive and their UI is up to date. Not everyone subscribes to the DLSS, RT narrative. People keep referencing Nvidia's dominance but then try to make AMD users seem foolish because they don't subscribe to Nvidia's features. The funny thing about it is that it is always the same users that are bashing AMD.

 

[bug]

Yeah because Nvidia's pricing is so competitive

It's through the roof. But it doesn't matter while AMD matches that instead of undercutting.

and their UI is up to date.

That's about as important as the graphics on the box it comes in. If it works, don't fix it.

Not everyone subscribes to the DLSS, RT narrative. People keep referencing Nvidia's dominance but then try to make AMD users seem foolish because they don't subscribe to Nvidia's features. The funny thing about it is that it is always the same users that are bashing AMD.

Someday it will dawn on you that, while AMD pretends those are useless features, they still implement them. Why would they do that, if there was virtually no demand?
The last time AMD innovated in the consumer GPU space was back when they introduced tessellation. And that was actually ATI.

 

[kapone32]

It's through the roof. But it doesn't matter while AMD matches that instead of undercutting.

That's about as important as the graphics on the box it comes in. If it works, don't fix it.

Someday it will dawn on you that, while AMD pretends those are useless features, they still implement them. Why would they do that, if there was virtually no demand?
The last time AMD innovated in the consumer GPU space was back when they introduced tessellation. And that was actually ATI.

There you have hit the nail on the head. In a perfect world a Mustang is almost as fast as a Ferrari but the Ferrari has more accoutrements and burns fuel faster. In this space the narrative has convinced people that the Ferrari is a better buy because of those.

AMD does not pretend. My 7900 card can do RT. It is my position that I don't need those things and therefore will not pay a premium for them. I have lived through PhysX and Hairworks.

You made that comment about the UI because you have never experienced AMD software. If you are into computing it is very granular but I understand that 20 years is a long time. Just like Mccaffee in HP pre-builts.

Yep fake frames, the only reason Nvidia "innovated" is because AMD caught them on raster. AI became a buzzword and the rest is history.