Framework Announces New Gaming Mini Desktop

[hsew]

How the heck is Framework selling a 385 Max desktop, WITH 32GB of RAM, for $400 CHEAPER than their HX 370 laptop barebone??

 

[Tigerfox]

In the presentation Nirav alludes to the engineering team attempting LPCAMM2 and didn't find it could work for this layout. Since the APU needs 256-bit memory pathing, the board area required to fit the pads for LPCAMM2 would be massive in the context of an ITX layout.

So it would be possible with enough space around the APU, theoretically? Before it always sounded like the APU was incompatible with LPCAMM2

But other than a quad-SSD card or GPU, what needs x8 lanes in this context?

Every NIC above 2x25GbE/1x50GbE. Since Strix Halo seems to be of interest for labs, I can imagine fast ethernet would be useful.

 

[PrettyKitten800]

Linus has a video on it already.

Thank you for warning me, so I can avoid it.

 

[HairyLobsters]

Linus has a video on it already.

He's an investor in the company.

 

[igormp]

So it would be possible with enough space around the APU, theoretically? Before it always sounded like the APU was incompatible with LPCAMM2

No, apparently there were some signal integrity issues, I've read somewhere that it caused a 50% perf penalty, which totally defeats the purpose of such a high-bandwidth unified memory design.

Every NIC above 2x25GbE/1x50GbE. Since Strix Halo seems to be of interest for labs, I can imagine fast ethernet would be useful.

Networking through USB4 might be more interesting for this specific device.

 

[Lionheart]

I want one, but it's like double the price where I live, what a bummer.

 

[PrettyKitten800]

How the heck is Framework selling a 385 Max desktop, WITH 32GB of RAM, for $400 CHEAPER than their HX 370 laptop barebone??

Does the desktop also come with a 2.8k LCD screen?

 

[hsew]

Does the desktop also come with a 2.8k LCD screen?

It does come with 32GB LPDDR5X-8000 RAM. Not that you could even buy that on its own as an LPCAMM2 module, but if you could it’d probably run you ~$179 (before Framework’s huge markup) given that the closest comparable option (and current best on the market as far as I’m aware) is Crucial’s 32GB LPDDR5X-7500 LPCAMM2 module for $139. Heck, with the FW markup it’d probably be $349. They currently charge $160 for $80 worth of 32GB DDR5 5600 SODIMM RAM in their FW 13 configurator as it is, so a 2x markup isn’t out of the question

Even in their own store, the 385 board is cheaper than the 370. So either Framework’s pricing is whack or AMD is charging significantly more for their non-Max chips.

 

[PrettyKitten800]

It does come with 32GB LPDDR5X-8000 RAM. Not that you could even buy that on its own as an LPCAMM2 module, but if you could it’d probably run you ~$179 (before Framework’s huge markup) given that the closest comparable option (and current best on the market as far as I’m aware) is Crucial’s 32GB LPDDR5X-7500 LPCAMM2 module for $139. Heck, with the FW markup it’d probably be $349. They currently charge $160 for $80 worth of 32GB DDR5 5600 SODIMM RAM in their FW 13 configurator as it is, so a 2x markup isn’t out of the question

Even in their own store, the 385 board is cheaper than the 370. So either Framework’s pricing is whack or AMD is charging significantly more for their non-Max chips.

None of this has anything to do with why a laptop would be more expensive than a desktop.

 

[hsew]

None of this has anything to do with why a laptop would be more expensive than a desktop.

I literally just explained it. It’s their markup. And debunked the engineering/BOM excuses (it isn’t a new chassis, and that FW would definitely charge more for the 32GB of 8000Mhz RAM than for the already nearly 2x marked-up $270 screen if they could).

It’s just odd that FW choose to (not) currently run the MAX chips in their laptop despite the fact that those chips are clearly capable of running in a tablet form factor (see: ASUS).

Maybe they’re planning it for the 16, but at that point those skus will approach $3000 with their pricing philosophy

Personally, I think it’s all a shame. I really wanted to like Framework, but at this point they’re marking up their platform like they’re Apple. I really want the serviceable laptop and significantly reduced e-waste model to be more mainstream than just a cool niche. And it could be if they were more serious about competing. That’s what’s frustrating.

 

[trsttte]

I wonder if this is what the next gen of consoles will look like, spec wise?

I mean, the current gen already looks like this, APU with massive integrated graphics cluster and unified memory. It will depend on what pricing looks like, Strix Halo was designed around LPDDR probably because for it's more power efficient for laptops, for a console they can deal with the power penalty of GDDR. The other major difference is it being a modular soc with separate tiles - while current gen consoles use a monolithic chip - but that's overall the direction the industry is going for because a massive monolithic chips is way too expensive.

So it would be possible with enough space around the APU, theoretically? Before it always sounded like the APU was incompatible with LPCAMM2

What I took from the LTT video is that AMD kind of fucked up with the design of the chip in some way that makes LPCAMM not possible, maybe the way the memory bus is routed doesn't allow for it - like imagine it's all going roughly towards the same side of the chip making it impossible to split the 256bits bus far enough to fit 2 LPCAMM modules while keeping signal integrity.

Just guessing of course

It’s just odd that FW choose to (not) currently run the MAX chips in their laptop despite the fact that those chips are clearly capable of running in a tablet form factor (see: ASUS).

According to the CEO, strix halo requires a completely new board redesign which is also why so few laptops were shown using it - just one from HP and the tablet from ASUS. According to him the exchange was literally: "Screw it, we're a small company and can't afford all of that. But what if we made it into a desktop?

 

[Caring1]

He's an investor in the company.

He makes that quite clear from the title, he has nothing to hide.

 

[Kohl Baas]

With my budget

Well, we can still hope Minisforum will get some of it eventually...