Epic Games' Mark Rein Confirms Gamers Moving Away from PC in Favor of Console

[GSG-9]

The modern high end (when they were first released) card costs 650-800$, trust me, I've bought one. It's called the 8800 ultra OC edition. That's the highest end as you go gaming video card wise. If you can't play crysis, it's because you're on a midrange card. IF your midrange card is OCed, then this gives you a better chance of playing crysis. ATI SELLS MANY MID RANGE CARDS. That's their niche, right now at least. ATI knew nvidia's 8800 series cards were going to be faster when they first came out, and they tapped into the midrange budget gaming market.

The 3870 is ATI's high end card, in a midrange market. You're totally confusing the entire thing.

No. not really. you just have your own definition of midrange that noone here, and noone anywhere agrees with.
PERFORMANCE is what deisdes if a card is hiend midrange or lowend. NOT the price. thats the biggest discrepancy. Everyone here besides you would consider a 2900 hiend.
Also the Ultra was not released first, just the GTX (I know you know it im just recaping) and it was that much, some of the Ultras cost as much as 1000, but they got 5fps more. Thats called being an idiot and not buying a product that is cost effective (No offense to anyone, if you have the money...i envy you, but its still not cost effective in the least).

 

[Mussels]

high end is $400+ - i remember people screaming when cards came OUT at $500, and how unfair it was. These are cards like the 8800GTX/ultra, x1950XTX, 3870X2 etc.
These are the cards designed to max out the games in their current generation


Mid range is $200-$400 - where cards like the 8800GT/S hang around. These are cards that will run any res you choose, but not with max graphics.

low end is anything upto $200 - we call it low end, becaue cards in this range cant run modern games reliably on medium. think of a 7300GS, 8400GT, ATI 1050 etc.

When talking these prices - its all about the latest generation. "last gen high end" often ends up around 'this gen mid range".

Three generation old high end often ends up near the low-mid of current stuff, so saying 'my 1950xtx is high end' is irrelevant 3 years after it came out - NOT 3 years since you bought it.

 

[GSG-9]

Thank you... I was beginning to think I went into an alternate dimension where nothing made sense and things that happened did not actually happen.

 

[das müffin mann]

Thank you... I was beginning to think I went into an alternate dimension where nothing made sense and things that happened did not actually happen.

oh but gsg-9 you are sorry we didn't tell, but hey i forget a lot of stuff

 

[candle_86]

actully its broken down like this to be honest

sub 100 = budget buy

100-200 = lower midrange

200-350 = upper midrange

350-500 = lower highend

500-1000 = upper highend

1000+ = your crazy

 

[das müffin mann]

price doesn't matter, performance determines if it is a high end card or not

 

[Mussels]

not quite candle - thats a 'perfect world' version.

The reason its not so broken down is that each generation, theres always a great value card or two that beat others in its range - a $300 card 'upper mid range' could come out faster than a $400 'lower high end'

I keep it generalised, because you have to base it on performance/experience rather than JUST on price.

 

[GSG-9]

actully its broken down like this to be honest
sub 100 = budget buy
100-200 = lower midrange
200-350 = upper midrange
350-500 = lower highend
500-1000 = upper highend
1000+ = your crazy

I would have agreed with you a few months ago but the price spread to performance is to great now. a 2900 is NOT midrange, its just not. Its highend. and it IS $2x0 pricerange. Thats NOT what the graphics market looks like.

price doesn't matter, performance determines if it is a high end card or not

exactly

 

[Mussels]

2900 is last gen high end. read my post

 

[candle_86]

I would have agreed with you a few months ago but the price spread to performance is to great now. a 2900 is NOT midrange, its just not. Its highend. and it IS $2x0 pricerange. Thats NOT what the graphics market looks like.


exactly

really, with the 9600GT comming in 2 weeks with 8800GTS 640 power, and 3870X2 and 9800GX2 it sure does to me. Look at the end of 06 for refrance on this, or the end of 05. The highend have fallen in price.

 

[candle_86]

not quite candle - thats a 'perfect world' version.

The reason its not so broken down is that each generation, theres always a great value card or two that beat others in its range - a $300 card 'upper mid range' could come out faster than a $400 'lower high end'

I keep it generalised, because you have to base it on performance/experience rather than JUST on price.

it is on price, a 2900pro was highend now its midrange, the 8800GT is midrange but the 8800GTS his highend along with GTX and Ultra. If you look at price vs preformace you always pay a premium and always will for the fastest

 

[GSG-9]

it is on price, a 2900pro was highend now its midrange, the 8800GT is midrange but the 8800GTS his highend along with GTX and Ultra. If you look at price vs preformace you always pay a premium and always will for the fastest

No...Those are all highend. a 8600 is mid range and a 8400 down is lowend. Thats how it has always been broken up. its how everyone breaks it up INCLUDING the people that make them.

Sure a 8800gt is on the lower end of high end but it is quite far from midrange.

 

[das müffin mann]

dude when i bought my highend card it was 250 and thats when it was first released

 

[Mussels]

theres really only low, mid and high on the manuf end.

Nvidia for example.

Low
8600GT and lower.

Mid
8600GTS/8800GS/8800GT

High 8800GTS (g92) 8800GTX/ultra/9800GX2 etc

WE alter that based on price, but we're really only guesstimating, as prices are varying quite a lot - people pay over $500 for a card easy these days, yet when they came out everyone was shitting bricks at buying a card over $300.

dude when i bought my highend card it was 250 and thats when it was first released

As i said, and has been missed - you got last gen highend. Its priced at current mid range prices, and while its performance per $ is quite good, that doesnt make it THIS gens high end.

 

[candle_86]

i didnt when i bought a TNT2 for 300 back in the day lol

wouldnt it be nice if it was still worth 300 though

 

[GSG-9]

theres really only low, mid and high on the manuf end.

WE alter that based on price, but we're really only guesstimating, as prices are varying quite a lot - people pay over $500 for a card easy these days, yet when they came out everyone was shitting bricks at buying a card over $300.
As i said, and has been missed - you got last gen highend. Its priced at current mid range prices, and while its performance per $ is quite good, that doesnt make it THIS gens high end.

Many break it up by series as well (I prefer this) 8800 = 8 8 00
First 8 being Generation of card, Second number being the series and the final two denoting any final significance in performance. More importantly than this though is benchmarks.

I do know what you are saying about older high end. But even a 1900xt, even though its close to obsolete, and it can probably be beat by a 8600 It was made to be highend. Its a highend card even if its obsolete, and it will run better than a 8200. Because an 8200 is lowend and a 1900 is not. (Which is what you said )

Right now a 3870x2 can be had for under $500. Thats highend, but it is 30% more effective than a 3870 but only on certain resolutions and settings you may or may not use. thats a $300 premium


Oh btw. the 2900 still is this gens highend, as it beats the 3870 in most tests, there is NOT a new generation of videocards yet, no new cores, just reiterations of the same hardware.

 

[das müffin mann]

the point im trying to make is that price is a second factor when i comes to determining a high end card PERFORMANCE ALWAYS COMES FIRST

 

[Mussels]

GSG-9 - dont get me wrong. the 2900pro is still a great card, but its a 2x00 series, not a 3x00.
Performance aside ( i DID say some generations are faster than others, thus hte reason pricing is crap) - its last gen, so retailers lower the price!

the 3xk cards have HDMI video w/ audio and DX 10.1, while useless to most people they are a newer, more feature laden card, so to retailers/noobsumers, that makes them worth more. Just means the 2900pro is cheap, which is good for the smart people

 

[GSG-9]

the 3xk cards have HDMI video w/ audio and DX 10.1, while useless to most people they are a newer, more feature laden card, so to retailers/noobsumers, that makes them worth more. Just means the 2900pro is cheap, which is good for the smart people

The reason the 2s are so close in performance to the 3s is there was no new architecture, the core went threw a shrink. Thats all. My 2900pro has an hdmi w/audio in the back. I dont even have an hdmi monitor to use it on though...I need to fix that.

Also the 3870s are also $220 thats current gen

 

[das müffin mann]

for a $150 i may actually crossfire mein at some point

 

[candle_86]

none the less its midrange, get over it.

cant you be happy your midrange card is good?

 

[Mussels]

The reason the 2s are so close in performance to the 3s is there was no new architecture, the core went threw a shrink. Thats all. My 2900pro has an hdmi w/audio in the back. I dont even have an hdmi monitor to use it on though...I need to fix that.

no new architecture, but naming says a new generation. Price-wise, THATS what controls it - stores are selling off the x2K stock before they lose all value (i still see x1800 cards online time to time, at over $400).

You're arguing a technical view, i'm talking marketing/retail pricing.

 

[AddSub]

price doesn't matter, performance determines if it is a high end card or not

the point im trying to make is that price is a second factor when i comes to determining a high end card PERFORMANCE ALWAYS COMES FIRST

This is not the case with nVidia's cards. nVidia's GPUs can be absolutely unappealing from price/performance standpoint and still sell for much more than they are really worth (as compared to what ATI offers for same amount of cash).

Example: 8600GTS cards in some places are still selling for around $250. Why would anyone spend $250 on a $100 card? I call it "GeForce tax". An ability to brag about having a nvidia GPU. For some people it doesn’t matter how much a card costs or how good it performs, they just want a "GeForce", just like the one their neighbor/co-worker/buddy/family-member has. Both nVidia and retailers take advantage of this.

I mean, I've actually seen people recommending other people that they upgrade their "crappy" Radeon x1950xt to an 8500GT, because in the minds of many a "GeForce" card, no matter how cut-down is still better than 10 best ATI cards, put together!

Ignorance is mofo!

nVidia = Apple of GPU realm, and I don't mean that in the good way.

 

[candle_86]

yea the egg has the x1800XT for like 235 right now

 

[candle_86]

This is not the case with nVidia's cards. nVidia's GPUs can be absolutely unappealing from price/performance standpoint and still sell for much more than they are really worth (as compared to what ATI offers for same amount of cash).

Example: 8600GTS cards in some places are still selling for around $250. Why would anyone spend $250 on a $100 card? I call it "GeForce tax". An ability to brag about having a nvidia GPU. For some people it doesn’t matter how much a card costs or how good it performs, they just want a "GeForce", just like the one their neighbor/co-worker/buddy/family-member has. Both nVidia and retailers take advantage of this.

I mean, I've actually seen people recommending other people that they upgrade their "crappy" Radeon x1950xt to an 8500GT, because in the minds of many a "GeForce" card, no matter how cut-down is still better than 10 best ATI cards, put together!

Ignorance is mofo!

nVidia = Apple of GPU realm, and I don't mean that in the good way.

Nvidia invented the realm we are in today, 3dfx started, and Geforce took off from there. Its that the geforce line offers more power than the radeon. Would you rather have an 8600GTS or an HD2600XT they sell for similar price. Would you rather have HD3870 or 8800GT for 20-30 more and get 20% more power?