NVIDIA Responsible for the Most Vista Crashes

[DarkMatter]

mostly true, but you also gotta remmber that the g92 used on the 9800 and g94 on the 9600 are just versions of the same chip the new 8800gs/gt/gts use, and as such you CAN see a bennifit, from using them, i have been using the 174.16 drivers for a week now, and i got a perf boost with AA from them, nvidia is purly targeting their newist cards only because they want to keep the margin between them and the 8800's as high as possable till most ofthe reviews are out so that people will rush out and spent 600bucks on a new 9800 card......blah......

Agreed, sometimes they can help, but at the same time they can hurt more than what they help and you can't see it on the surface.
GForce 9000 series are based on G92, just as 8800 GS/GT/GTS. "Based" is the key word. I have read somewhere that 9 series could have some minor tweaks in the internal units, that would lead to 9600 GT performing so well compared to 8800 GT and 9800 GX2 being as fast (sometimes faster) than 8800 GTS SLI despite it's 10% slower core. Those internal changes are indeed more hazardous than what you could first think. Anyway a simple tweak to balance the computing power to different SP numbers could lead to a crash. Most crashes are related to resource management not done well.

and what about cross-breed systems?

how many people are running an Intel based motherboard, with an ATI southbridge and running an nVidia GPU?

how many users have had multiple crashes related to each individual hardware component, and do we factor out any known conflicting issues that tend to cause crashes in XP?

That's also part of what I wanted to point out.

Intel only does Intel-Intel (chipset-cpu), Ati does Ati-Intel (very few really, but still) and Ati-Amd, and Nvidia does also Amd and Intel with the added factor that even nowadays there are more Nvidia-Amd than Ati-Amd.

 

[BumbRush]

honestly, in this case im pretty much certen the only reasion they dont at least support the g92 8800's is because they want to keep the performance boosts in the 9 seirse for now so they can keep gaining sales.

the 9600 is good for a mid range card but at least for me isnt that great a buy when u can get a 1gb 8800gt for 180 at tiger (go check its the palit version)

 

[DarkMatter]

honestly, in this case im pretty much certen the only reasion they dont at least support the g92 8800's is because they want to keep the performance boosts in the 9 seirse for now so they can keep gaining sales.

the 9600 is good for a mid range card but at least for me isnt that great a buy when u can get a 1gb 8800gt for 180 at tiger (go check its the palit version)

IMO that's broken logic. Why would they want to sell 9600 GT over 8800 GT, which is more expensive and almost the same chip? And if they use that strategy to sell 9800 GX2, why do they release 174.74 (with support for all cards) just some days later? And why would they want 9 series to sell in expense of losing 8800 G92 sales after all the efforts that they did to sell G80 cards once G92 was launched? Why do they change their strategy in such a short time period?

IMO there's no logic in your assumption. And BTW I didn't see huge (if any) improvements on new drivers over 169.21 on my card. I will try 174.74 when I have time and decide, but I don't think this time will be different.

EDIT: Oh! And there was at least one driver specific to 8800 GS. Had that driver improvements too, but they didn't include other cards because they wanted to sell the GS over GT too? I don't see the logic there.

 

[Wile E]

I still use 169.21 on my 88GT. Not a single issue here. I see no reason to move to a beta driver for 1 or 2 fps tops.

 

[Mussels]

Why is someone a fanboy when they knock your beloved nvidia, but you are not even though you consistently knock ATi?

he was quite seriously pointing out a flaw with the provided numbers. you cant say Nv have crap drivers just because they have more errors, with Nvidias 6150 onboard video running a LOT of storebought vista machines i can guarantee (well, kinda) that Nvidia will have a LOT more vistas users than ATI.

And are these BSOD crashes or driver crashes? I have had that annoying NVKDLL (spelling?) driver has stopped responding crap all the time... when too far OC'd. i could have easily had a few hundred errors over that while OCing my video card/system ram.

 

[BumbRush]

IMO that's broken logic. Why would they want to sell 9600 GT over 8800 GT, which is more expensive and almost the same chip? And if they use that strategy to sell 9800 GX2, why do they release 174.74 (with support for all cards) just some days later? And why would they want 9 series to sell in expense of losing 8800 G92 sales after all the efforts that they did to sell G80 cards once G92 was launched? Why do they change their strategy in such a short time period?

IMO there's no logic in your assumption. And BTW I didn't see huge (if any) improvements on new drivers over 169.21 on my card. I will try 174.74 when I have time and decide, but I don't think this time will be different.

EDIT: Oh! And there was at least one driver specific to 8800 GS. Had that driver improvements too, but they didn't include other cards because they wanted to sell the GS over GT too? I don't see the logic there.

um why would they want to sell a 9600 over a 8800,,,,,,,thats easy, THEY MAKE MORE OFF THE 9600 Then the 8800, the 9600 is cheaper to build, hence higher profit per sale, with your logic all of their cards should just be 256bit because theres no point in going lower.......

and i checked last night and those 174.74 drivers wherent on the list on nvidias own site, i will check again now, if they are then i will install them, if not, meh, screw it, i will stick with what i have

 

[Mussels]

174.74 is on TPU's frontpage, its a beta driver so it doesnt show if you search the normal way on Nvidias site (you have to click beta drivers first)

 

[BumbRush]

nope no 174.74 drivers there.......

hummmmm nope no 174.74 drivers to be found just drivers form what is that, 4 months ago?

 

[BumbRush]

174.74 is on TPU's frontpage, its a beta driver so it doesnt show if you search the normal way on Nvidias site (you have to click beta drivers first)

checked nvidias own beta archive and guess what, its not there, so its a leek......

ok found it, its listed as a beta 9 seirse driver NOT under the 8 seirse.......

 

[Solaris17]

checked nvidias own beta archive and guess what, its not there, so its a leek......

ok found it, its listed as a beta 9 seirse driver NOT under the 8 seirse.......

that doesnt mean anything.....the drivers arent series dependent you know.....

 

[Mussels]

i just followed the link on the front of TPU and it took me straight to it.

Oh and lately some betas ARE series dependant (only 9 series), which is why its probably hiding there.

 

[BumbRush]

that doesnt mean anything.....the drivers arent series dependent you know.....

i just followed the link on the front of TPU and it took me straight to it.

Oh and lately some betas ARE series dependant (only 9 series), which is why its probably hiding there.

solar, in this case ur wrong..... most of the betas lately have been 9600/9800 only, u had to mod the inf file to make them work on other cards.

 

[TheGuruStud]

No surprise. If all of these guys are having issues, youd have to think they have a common denominator. Vista. So I think the problem starts there. Its hard to make something work and work properly on a piece of garbage...

Werd, M$ is trying to cover their asses on this one. You can't hide a steaming pile of shit when you can smell it from across the house

 

[BumbRush]

but nubs and retards are eating that shit up, and u can tell because their breath stinks

 

[btarunr]

sorry but you are full of it, you run around every chance you get badmouthing ati, ur a fanboi/nvidiot, just be a man like btarunr and admit it.

and there are reasions, you just wont accept them because they arent strong points for nvidia, i wont bother listing them again, but most of us know what they are.

So does your making bold statements without logical backing and valid argument make you ATIncompetent ? Calling someone NVidiot is an insult too, of which is against forum guidelines. I indeed called myself an NVidiot but you obviously fail to understand the tone and context in which I said it, it was on a lighter note. Your only tool to reply to people with valid counter-arguments is calling them NVidiots, or that some ATI cards come with 'siren-screaming' onboard audio....and oh, buggy drivers made by NVidia (that still don't come in the way of NVidia's products performing better than the competition).

 

[candle_86]

newtekkie : you called me a fanboi before because i was defending an ATi product in a separate thread, meanwhile the SAME day i was advising a fellow forum member to purchase an Nvidia product over ATi, and have done so on other occasions.

i am in no way a fanboi.

i kinda have to agree with some of the others thoughts about you.

didnt purevideo or W/E have serious problems on the 6series cards in the begining? it took them quite a while to get it running properly did it not? and Nvidia has ALWAYS had problems with thier drivers, more so than ATi.

im out

yes the NV40 didnt support it, big deal, if you bought a 6800 to watch movies your insane, i can understand that thinking today but back then just makes you a nutjob

 

[Mussels]

ati and nvidia ALWAYS had problems. they merely take it in turns in the spotlight, as one is always 'worse' than the other.

Hell, a DVD runs on a 400Mhz celeron (an old powerDVD disk i have lists that as the requirement, 600MHz with surround sound) so who cares about video card acceleration if it doesnt work? Yes its a good feature, but its not like it not working (Temporarily! it IS software) ruins the card.

Driver issues like the NV driver crashing for some users in vista, or not working on the 7900GT without modding the clocks, THOSE are serious issues. ATI has a few as well (broken scaling for widescreen, driver issues for AGP users) so its not like one is worse than the other.

 

[candle_86]

agreed, i dont use the Nvidia dvd decoder software, i use my trust X2 and powerDVD, and it plays DVD's just fine.

Also with the move to MPEG4 both need to play catchup as there MPEG4 support sucks on both brands

 

[qwerty_lesh]

off topic, sorry, but im not vid brand bashing, so least thats good lol.

BumbRush, whered you get that opera skin from?

on topic, haha i bet that microsoft came second because idiots (i swear ive seen people try to do this) install office XP onto vista, then say just like the dumb idiots they are 'why isnt my program working properly, der der der'
poor microsoft, im sure all their current software could probably run ok'ish on their bloaty shiney os, too bad that end users still want to use programs that are over 5 years old on it.

 

[Mussels]

i use office XP in vista. no problems, i also happen to use microsoft update and keep it up to date which is probably why (office has service packs for a reaaaason)

 

[Widjaja]

nVidia and ATi both suck in one way or another.

nVidia will be good at a game ATi is not and vice versa.
But the worse thing is the performance difference is huge in some games.

It should be, both nVidia and ATi play games flawlessly but one just has the edge a little over the other.

There needs to be another GPU company with the potential up the anty.

Enough for both nVidia and ATi to team up. . . .but I guess we can all dream.

 

[newtekie1]

i just followed the link on the front of TPU and it took me straight to it.

Oh and lately some betas ARE series dependant (only 9 series), which is why its probably hiding there.

Usually the drivers that are series dependant are the same drivers, but the only change is to support a new card. The release notes on them usually only list "Added support for ******". There are no improvements in the drivers, they just now support a new card that has been released. So there is no point in everyone redownloading and reinstalling to get the same driver you already had but with support for a card you don't have.

 

[DarkMatter]

um why would they want to sell a 9600 over a 8800,,,,,,,thats easy, THEY MAKE MORE OFF THE 9600 Then the 8800, the 9600 is cheaper to build, hence higher profit per sale, with your logic all of their cards should just be 256bit because theres no point in going lower.......

and i checked last night and those 174.74 drivers wherent on the list on nvidias own site, i will check again now, if they are then i will install them, if not, meh, screw it, i will stick with what i have

It's not that cheaper to build, that's my logic. They have same memory, same cooling, same powering and almost same pcb, and of course the chip itself is the same just with 48 less SPs. All in all, I'm willing to bet that the price difference in production is a lot smaller than what you see on street prices. 9600GT was launched to counter Ati HD3850, even if the profit went down.

I don't know from where you took out that I think they should only do 256+ bit cards, or high-end cards or whatever you want to say. There must be different segments, but they will make different designs for each one or they will have low profits. The card is almost the same. It sells for $50 less. Profit is smaller, but it doesn't matter because they regain market share. Yet they don't have any reason to deliverately hurt 8800GT sales just because of that. If XXXXX driver improves 8800 GT in addition to 9600 GT, and they know because they have tested it, they will support it.

Also AFAIK 8800 will be EOL soon, as they release 9800 (which is almost 8800) they will stop producing 8800s, so they want to sell them before they launch the new ones. A company will always prefer selling the parts that have been already manufactured than the ones that not. It happened the same with G80. Think about it, there's no logic in what you say. They want to sell more 9600s? Probably. They want to canibalize 8800 sales? NO. They want to improve 8800 performance in order to make HD3870 obsolete? YES. Then they will support the cards in any new driver that really helps improve performance.

EDIT: And I forgot to say, the higher the price, the higher the profit per sale. If it was in any company's hand they would always sell the high-end parts, but they know that the masses won't buy them, so they need mainstream and low-end. Mainstream is where the money is because for each $300 card sold they can sell four $150 cards.

 

[Solaris17]

solar, in this case ur wrong..... most of the betas lately have been 9600/9800 only, u had to mod the inf file to make them work on other cards.

huh thats intresting because to my knowledge the drivers added specific changes to the 9 series but worked on 8 and 7 series cards...at least thats what iv been seeing in some of the competition threads ppl with other cards not 9 series using the betas perectly fine...would you happen to know by experience?

 

[Solaris17]

but nubs and retards are eating that shit up, and u can tell because their breath stinks

that comment wasnt necissary we need to learn to keep it cival were having a discussion about cards and i would hope that everyone here can learn to be a big boy and not go around calling people fan bopys and since your the first one to bring it up id call you flame bait but i wont instead of going around talking trash how about we answer a valid point without calling someone an nvidiot b4 someone calls you a tool.