AMD Confirms GDDR5 for ATI Radeon 4 Series Video Cards

[DarkMatter]

I think the tmu was a bottleneck in rv670, the memory bandwith is good for high res with high aa. More shader powa is necessary as always, especially if gpu physics come into the picture.
I'm not certain if the rops are a bottleneck...

My point is that if TMUs were the bottleneck, they would have done 2 x Shader Power AND dunno 3x Texturing power? and not 2x-2x. If textures were the bottleneck, this flaw has been carried over to the new series. Since I don't think that possible, as I don't think they are so stupid, my only conclusion is that it wasn't a bottleneck. I am based in other concerns to reach tht conclusion too, like the efficiency at which they are capable of using the VLIW + SIMD SP arrays, for example. I have defended since day one that R600 was limited by it's shader power, it's just lately and after hearing most people complain about its 16 TMUs that I had to "admit" or adopt the idea that the bottleneck is on TMUs.

 

[imperialreign]

I'll try and dig up the review I read a while back, if I can find it again - it's kinda hard to find legit reviews like that seeing as how not many sites run back through testing when new driver releases are put out . . .

we can kind of see it, though, in our e-peen "post your gameX benchmark score here" threads

but, again, I'll try and dig up what I remember seeing, and I'll post it back up here in this thread once I find it . . .

as to this last post of mine - I can't find the review, so my arguement has not veifiable standpoint.

Most ATI users here could probably vouch for how quick we see performance gains in new to the market games, but without strong evidence, I have to call my own argument flaky.





Anyhow, back to the discussion at hand - I'm fairly certain by the way it looks that the HD4000 series will be the true contenders that we haven't seen from ATI since the 1900 series; sure, nVidia will be coutering with new hardware a couple of months after the HD4000 release, but if it's another "panic countermeasure" like nVidia tends to do, we're not going to see any "epic" advancements to their hardware -

The way it loosk right now, IMO, is that ATI will be able to reclaim the performance crown with this new series, and once nVidia releases their upcoming hardware, both companies are going to be toe-2-toe. Price will be the biggest determining factor as to who will win the fight, not performance.

Either way, though, we're in for a heated year between red and green, and I'm really looking forward to it again

 

[HTC]

Has anyone seen this yet?

We finally have a screenshot that confirms most of the things that we said about RV770PRO, here. Our sources suggested that ATI is talking about a Radeon 4850 512MB name for this card.

The card at its top frequency works at 900MHz as we wrote yesterday, and the GDDR3 memory works at 1000MHz. ATI uses power play, a power saving technique that can drop the GPU clock to 500MHz or 625MHz, depending on the power state.

At the same time, the memory also works at three states. The top one is 1000MHz (2000MHz effectively), the second is 993MHz (1986MHz effectively), and the slowest one is 750MHz (1500MHz effectively).

You will need 1.123V to make the chip work.

Update: After thorough checking it looks like that 900MHz is a top shader clock.

Source: Fudzilla

 

[DarkMatter]

as to this last post of mine - I can't find the review, so my arguement has not veifiable standpoint.

Most ATI users here could probably vouch for how quick we see performance gains in new to the market games, but without strong evidence, I have to call my own argument flaky.





Anyhow, back to the discussion at hand - I'm fairly certain by the way it looks that the HD4000 series will be the true contenders that we haven't seen from ATI since the 1900 series; sure, nVidia will be coutering with new hardware a couple of months after the HD4000 release, but if it's another "panic countermeasure" like nVidia tends to do, we're not going to see any "epic" advancements to their hardware -

The way it loosk right now, IMO, is that ATI will be able to reclaim the performance crown with this new series, and once nVidia releases their upcoming hardware, both companies are going to be toe-2-toe. Price will be the biggest determining factor as to who will win the fight, not performance.

Either way, though, we're in for a heated year between red and green, and I'm really looking forward to it again

Man, you are so misinformed. Nvidia will launch it's counterpart 2 days later than Ati's HD4850 and 5 days before HD4870 according to widespread news:

16th June - HD4850
18th June - GTX 260 and 280
And week later than the HD4850 the HD4870 with availabity on first half of July.

And there's not going to be any "panic countermeasure", it never was IMO. 8800GT's low availability was the first time for Nvidia, as so was the first time that Ati delivered at launch instead of doing a paper launch in my recent memory. Ati does good hardware, but when it comes to delivering the actual cards...

 

[imperialreign]

Man, you are so misinformed. Nvidia will launch it's counterpart 2 days later than Ati's HD4850 and 5 days before HD4870 according to widespread news:

16th June - HD4850
18th June - GTX 260 and 280
And week later than the HD4850 the HD4870 with availabity on first half of July.

And there's not going to be any "panic countermeasure", it never was IMO. 8800GT's low availability was the first time for Nvidia, as so was the first time that Ati delivered at launch instead of doing a paper launch in my recent memory.

sorry, I haven't heard any confirmed release dates yet - last I had heard was initial launch of HD4000 series in either June or July, and nVidia claiming late summer . . .

but, going by how things have rolled in the past, when ATI states a release date and starts releasing specs, they're usually on the money as far as when they intend to begin sale, nVidia tends to be questionable when all they state is a new hardware release in a "round about this time of year" kind of way.

Although, I can't say for certain what type of counter nVidia's new hardware will be - if it's just a quick fabrication change, then they've probably been capable of the change for quite a while and were just waiting on ATI's new series announcement (it wouldn't surprise me, Intel does the same thing with AMD; they've been sandbagging their processors for quite a while now). ATI on the otherhand have been desiging the R700 for quite some time now, and rumors have been floating around about it's design for a long time now, I'm sure nVidia knew it was coming - so, I guess you're right in that nVidia's new series isn't a "panic countermeasure" like the 9800GX2 was, but, I'd argue that it's more of a "cock block" instead.

Ati does good hardware, but when it comes to delivering the actual cards

huh? I've never heard of any issues with ATI card supplies not meeting customer demands on release . . . nVidia, on the other hand, has a hard time preparing for demand. Sure, ATI might not have the kick over nVidia these last couple of years with new hardware, but many customers have gone with ATI's newest cards because nVidia can't supply at first.

 

[eidairaman1]

You notice how Nvidia had to release so many GS, because the G92s couldnt get enough Non Defective Yields at the Time for the GT and GTS Parts, it took many steppings later to get the 9800GTX and GX2, since the GS didnt sell so well as the higher cards, Nvidia Rebagged them.

Man, you are so misinformed. Nvidia will launch it's counterpart 2 days later than Ati's HD4850 and 5 days before HD4870 according to widespread news:

16th June - HD4850
18th June - GTX 260 and 280
And week later than the HD4850 the HD4870 with availabity on first half of July.

And there's not going to be any "panic countermeasure", it never was IMO. 8800GT's low availability was the first time for Nvidia, as so was the first time that Ati delivered at launch instead of doing a paper launch in my recent memory. Ati does good hardware, but when it comes to delivering the actual cards...

 

[Rebo&Zooty]

sorry, I haven't heard any confirmed release dates yet - last I had heard was initial launch of HD4000 series in either June or July, and nVidia claiming late summer . . .

but, going by how things have rolled in the past, when ATI states a release date and starts releasing specs, they're usually on the money as far as when they intend to begin sale, nVidia tends to be questionable when all they state is a new hardware release in a "round about this time of year" kind of way.

Although, I can't say for certain what type of counter nVidia's new hardware will be - if it's just a quick fabrication change, then they've probably been capable of the change for quite a while and were just waiting on ATI's new series announcement (it wouldn't surprise me, Intel does the same thing with AMD; they've been sandbagging their processors for quite a while now). ATI on the otherhand have been desiging the R700 for quite some time now, and rumors have been floating around about it's design for a long time now, I'm sure nVidia knew it was coming - so, I guess you're right in that nVidia's new series isn't a "panic countermeasure" like the 9800GX2 was, but, I'd argue that it's more of a "cock block" instead.



huh? I've never heard of any issues with ATI card supplies not meeting customer demands on release . . . nVidia, on the other hand, has a hard time preparing for demand. Sure, ATI might not have the kick over nVidia these last couple of years with new hardware, but many customers have gone with ATI's newest cards because nVidia can't supply at first.

haha, very true.

now as to short supply, the x800xt pe was the only card i saw in "short supply" from ati, and around here, the 6800ultra was in the same sate, u could get the gt, but not the ultra, you could get the x800pro or pro vivo(pro vivo at the time ALL flashed to xt pe specs, some needed slitly lower clocks, but most dirrect flashed no problem)

and as i said, in my area( neer portland oregon) we had shortages of nvidia cards from the geforce1 up, till the g80 cards hit, the mid and lower versions like the gt/gts where avalable IF they wherent the top version but if the where, you could endup waiting weeks in line behind others who had already sign up toget one when they came in.

the x1800 and 1900 cards when they hit on the other hand had NO supply issues here, dispite selling VERY VERY well(the x1800gto sold like hotcakes at a county fair) really.

and ati has put off relece dates b4, but if they say "it WILL be out by this time", you could get it from channels within days of that, nvidia are never clear on a date till they put the card out, its a way to try and avoid paper launches.....

i know alot of people including myself lost alot of the respect they had for tomshardware due to some extreamly bias reviewers tom hired once apon a time(toms personal reviews alwase came of to me as being very low on bias and at times very blunt about flaws the reviews items had) but one thing you gotta respect him for, if you look thru his archives he once stoped reviewing products that where "paper launch" and he had a front page statement to nvidia,ati,intel,amd and other hardware makers flat out telling them he wouldnt review stuff that wouldnt be readly avalable on the open market at launch, and he stuck to that, dispite it pissing off those companys that wanted their next great paper launch item reviewed to get the hype up..

i do remmber that some items he mentioned when interviewed about that where the p4EE chips that many times you COULDNT get ahold of after launch because intel kept them in such extreamly short supply.

the FX chips because it took a month in some cases for the chips to acctualy be readly avalable.

and he slamed nvidia and ati for the same crap, putting out their ultra hign end products but not having a ready supply, the xt pe and ultra seirse cards where the primary target for this since they where alwase in short supply after launch.

 

[DarkMatter]

I don't know there, but here it's been the same since the 9700 until the HD3870, this last one was in better supply. As I said I can't know about the US personally, but I've been reading tech sites since the beggining and according to the sites X800, X1800 and x1900 were in short supply AND later than what they first said would launch (paper launch). The situation was so extreme that some sites (Tom's Hardware being the most popular) stoped talking about those cards for months until the actual card was on streets. I Know that was what happened and anything will change my mind, I just have ti go to news archives of any tech site to refresh my mind.

 

[Rebo&Zooty]

I don't know there, but here it's been the same since the 9700 until the HD3870, this last one was in better supply. As I said I can't know about the US personally, but I've been reading tech sites since the beggining and according to the sites X800, X1800 and x1900 were in short supply AND later than what they first said would launch (paper launch). The situation was so extreme that some sites (Tom's Hardware being the most popular) stoped talking about those cards for months until the actual card was on streets. I Know that was what happened and anything will change my mind, I just have ti go to news archives of any tech site to refresh my mind.

the x1800 was late to market yes, but not a paper launch, same for the 1900, at least here we had them in ready supply, even localy at places like compusa you could get them just after the official launch.

and check ur facts about toms hardware, he reamed nvidia and ati as well as intel, and to a far lesser extent amd(amd had one fx chip that was in VERY short supply as well as a low watt chip line that was hard to get ahold of)

example 6800ultra=paper launched and took MONTHS to acctualy become readly avalable......

the 2900 was also pushed back from orignal launch date(drastickly) but at least around here u could get them in stores after official launch.

the x800pro/pro vivo where NOT paper launched, they where very easy to come by, as was the 6800gt(same class cards) and the 9700/9800 where not hard to get, i knew plenty of ppl who got them when they hit, at the time i didnt have the $ to get one :/

your claim that nvidia never paper launches is countered by a simple google search.

try it, you will find that if you combine proper terms all the company are pretty much equialy guilty of paper launching stuff, now to diffrent market impacts, amd's early low watt chips went thru paper alunches for all intents and perpouses, intel.....well they paper launched every time amd put out a new chip that dirrectly thretened ther few leading points with the p4, nvidia and ati, well they both have a LONG history of launching stuff and having VERY low supplys avalable OR pushing launches back for untold reasions.

latist ones I have seen personaly where the x800xt pe/6800ultra and the 8800gt it was avalable but VERY short supplys, was launched in a panic to avoid ati's 3800 cards from taking market share, the rush launch also showed in the crappy sub-par cooling the cards where given.......the 8800gt lacks polish......

and as i said before, the xt pe was hard/impossable to get but the pro vivo cards from the time could enlarge flash to xt pe specs, i only ever had 4 pro vivos that didnt dirrectly flash to xt pe. and those where all sapphire cards(sapphire in my exp tend to be the worst choice for moding or infact componant quility)

meh, i cant find the toms hardware thing, i think its archived it was years back, around the time of the xt pe/6800ultra where out.

 

[DarkMatter]

the x1800 was late to market yes, but not a paper launch, same for the 1900, at least here we had them in ready supply, even localy at places like compusa you could get them just after the official launch.

and check ur facts about toms hardware, he reamed nvidia and ati as well as intel, and to a far lesser extent amd(amd had one fx chip that was in VERY short supply as well as a low watt chip line that was hard to get ahold of)

example 6800ultra=paper launched and took MONTHS to acctualy become readly avalable......

the 2900 was also pushed back from orignal launch date(drastickly) but at least around here u could get them in stores after official launch.

the x800pro/pro vivo where NOT paper launched, they where very easy to come by, as was the 6800gt(same class cards) and the 9700/9800 where not hard to get, i knew plenty of ppl who got them when they hit, at the time i didnt have the $ to get one :/

your claim that nvidia never paper launches is countered by a simple google search.

try it, you will find that if you combine proper terms all the company are pretty much equialy guilty of paper launching stuff, now to diffrent market impacts, amd's early low watt chips went thru paper alunches for all intents and perpouses, intel.....well they paper launched every time amd put out a new chip that dirrectly thretened ther few leading points with the p4, nvidia and ati, well they both have a LONG history of launching stuff and having VERY low supplys avalable OR pushing launches back for untold reasions.

latist ones I have seen personaly where the x800xt pe/6800ultra and the 8800gt it was avalable but VERY short supplys, was launched in a panic to avoid ati's 3800 cards from taking market share, the rush launch also showed in the crappy sub-par cooling the cards where given.......the 8800gt lacks polish......

and as i said before, the xt pe was hard/impossable to get but the pro vivo cards from the time could enlarge flash to xt pe specs, i only ever had 4 pro vivos that didnt dirrectly flash to xt pe. and those where all sapphire cards(sapphire in my exp tend to be the worst choice for moding or infact componant quility)

meh, i cant find the toms hardware thing, i think its archived it was years back, around the time of the xt pe/6800ultra where out.

Meh I don't want to discuss. I know the facts, I read 20+ tech sites everyday and I know what I'm talking about.

Only two things:
1. 6800 Ultra was out the same day, with tons of cards, but were launched all around the world, so supply was short. On the other hand Ati loves to supply enough to US and don't care alot about the rest of the world, another thing that counts a lot IMO. You could find a 6800 Ultra the same they launched it, at least here in Spain. I know it because I worked in a computer store back then, and we had the card 3 days before launch, but couldn't sell it till THE DAY. Happened the same with 7800.

EDIT: Now, if you are talking about the ULtra 512, then right. That was a paper launch, from my expeirence, indeed, I could say it was a fairy launch, as I never had the chance to see one in the store.
2. X800 XT was a lot later than what they first said, x1800 and x1900 too. Again I know it first hand. Paper launch is not only not having the card in supply at launch, it is also to announce it and constantly delay the launch. Ati has done this a lot of times. Indeed they are going to do it with the HD4870, they are going to "launch" it around 22 June, with availability on first half of July. That's also a paper launch to me.

 

[eidairaman1]

instead of buying a card at launch i usually wait a few months before grabbing, thats what i did with the 9700 and the x1950, because of stepping improvements.