Microsoft DirectX 11 Details Emerge

[Rurouni Strife]

Actually, the GPU on the xbox has the shader power (40) of a HD2400. I know, i was suprised too. I think its because the dev's develop specifically for the Xbox specs that allows games to look good. Tesselation and super special ram undobutably help too.

 

[EastCoasthandle]

DX11 appears to be nothing more then a continuation of DX10.1. IMO it should be called DX10.2 not DX11.

 

[DarkMatter]

@DarkMatter
Tessellation would be used on round objects or curved objects wouldn't it? It's not like everything on the screen needs to be rendered that way...

Yeah, but real life is full of round and curved and almost-round, almost-curved objects, that are always rendered as boxes on games. IMO the whole point of tesselation would be to give those surfaces the detail they lack. What would be the point of making characters have 1 million polygons when everything around them are ugly boxes? Just looking around I can see: a monitor, keyboard, modem router, PC case, TV remote... All of those are very box-like, they could be very well described as boxes, but they have rounded edges and that property is what make them look pretty.

Then we have the furniture and of course the terrain. In games they are almost always made of boxes, or shapes that are very close to be boxes. Usually the designer makes the levels so that they have very few rounded surfaces, because they will look better. Tesselation should be used to improve that IMO. Not just increasing the details of characters and models that BTW have already achieved a level of detail that is very good. Increasing it isn't as desirable as increasing the detail of the surroundings.

Actually, the GPU on the xbox has the shader power (40) of a HD2400. I know, i was suprised too. I think its because the dev's develop specifically for the Xbox specs that allows games to look good. Tesselation and super special ram undobutably help too.

Wrong. Not at all. XBox 360's GPU has 48 SPs and those are not comparable to the ones in R6xx line, are different and more powerfull. You'd do better comparing them to X1xxx series or maybe the ones on Nvidia DX10 cards (G80 and above). You can't really compare them directly, but a better comparison would be to say it has 48 SPs, where HD2400 has 8 and HD2900/3870 has 64. Also remember the ones on the Xbox run at 500 Mhz while R6xx runs almost at 800 Mhz.

 

[Darkrealms]

Its promising some very nice uses for the graphics cards. Wonder what it will actually deliver, or what developers will be willing to work with.

Even if you don't need a powerful GPU for imaging getting a powerful one anyway to speed everything up would be worth it if the DX11 info is true. More powerful GPU not so worried about the powerful CPU.

 

[mysticjon]

hmmm dx11 so soon, but not many stuff utilizes dx10 at all or even dx10.1? hmm im guessing its dx11 is another money muncher.

 

[mysticjon]

Yeah, but real life is full of round and curved and almost-round, almost-curved objects, that are always rendered as boxes on games. IMO the whole point of tesselation would be to give those surfaces the detail they lack. What would be the point of making characters have 1 million polygons when everything around them are ugly boxes? Just looking around I can see: a monitor, keyboard, modem router, PC case, TV remote... All of those are very box-like, they could be very well described as boxes, but they have rounded edges and that property is what make them look pretty.

wait does that mean, programers wouldn't have to use polygons to create a rounded/curved objects? I dont fully understand this yet

 

[thoughtdisorder]

I think the incorporation of tessellation is pretty exciting for the future of computer graphics! Most of us understand the premise, but for some folks who don't know what it is check it out HERE.

Here's a visual idea......

Like everything else, we'll have to wait and see, but DX 11 sounds exciting!

 

[mysticjon]

interesting stuff, MC Escher would be honored hahaha

 

[thoughtdisorder]

interesting stuff, MC Escher would be honored hahaha

Ah, Mr Escher, passed way before his time! My personal favorites from him were his Metamorphosis prints....

 

[Wshlist]

Meanwhile I read that nvidia's next GPU they have in the pipeline STILL won't have dx10.1 let alone DX11, and I bet no tessellation either, what the hell is going on at nvidia? Did they hire that hector ruiz guy or something?

The whole DX11 thing does sound like MS talked a lot to AMD though doesn't it, perhaps they like people that implement their ideas better than those that don't.
But I see no mention of voxels/raytracing, unless that's hidden as part of those 'compute shaders'.

 

[thoughtdisorder]

Meanwhile I read that nvidia's next GPU they have in the pipeline STILL won't have dx10.1 let alone DX11, and I bet no tessellation either, what the hell is going on at nvidia? Did they hire that hector ruiz guy or something?

The whole DX11 thing does sound like MS talked a lot to AMD though doesn't it, perhaps they like people that implement their ideas better than those that don't.

Well, first off thanks for chuckle!

Secondly, NVIDIA was known for their drivers unike ATI before Vista's arrival. In fact, NVIDIA has several issues ongoing with Vista incompatibilities that they seem to refuse to fix. Let me say it before anyone gets all upset, I am not an ATI or an NVIDIA fanboi! I am for products that work and deliver the best value (plus some) that the consumer pays and expects. On the other hand, it depends on what unique games, applications, etc., that you use that determines what specific card is the best value for you. As far as tessellation from NVIDIA, don't hold your breath. You'll turn blue and fall over. ATI at this moment in time holds the cards IMO.

 

[mysticjon]

Well, first off thanks for chuckle!

Secondly, NVIDIA has never been known for their drivers like ATI has been. In fact, NVIDIA has several issues ongoing with Vista incompatibilities that they seem to refuse to fix. Let me say it before anyone gets all upset, I am not an ATI or an NVIDIA fanboi! I am for products that work and deliver the best value (plus some) that the consumer pays and expects. On the other hand, it depends on what unique games, applications, etc., that you use that determines what specific card is the best value for you. As far as tessellation from NVIDIA, don't hold your breath. You'll turn blue and fall over. ATI at this moment in time holds the cards IMO.

hey i agree with ya

 

[Rurouni Strife]

Didn't think that those SP's were more comparable to x1K cards, or G80 basically. So it's a removal of ATI's defination of SP's. I see. So yea, its be kinda sorta like a 2900GT if you compared directly but I know that isn't possible. Thanks for making that point, thats my food for thought for the day.

 

[Kreij]

Didn't think that those SP's were more comparable to x1K cards, or G80 basically. So it's a removal of ATI's defination of SP's. I see. So yea, its be kinda sorta like a 2900GT if you compared directly but I know that isn't possible. Thanks for making that point, thats my food for thought for the day.

I don't think so. I think that it is taking some of the things that are done in HLSL in the SPs and putting them in an API where they can directly access the (new or existing) hardware through some kind of content pipeline or similar. They may still run in the SP's, but the developers will be able to code them easier through the API than having to write complex shaders.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[newconroer]

I have the feeling the DX11 is just another version of DX10/10.1. Atleast we won't have to go out & buy into new cards just because of it. Maybe our quads can finally be supported.

I'd like to see DX10 get the attention it deserves from developers. There's a lot of good stuff it can do.

However, with DX11 having DX10 capabilities, they might finally get around to it.

I liked the comment about using blur to mix real time and cinematics, though I fear in some ways 3d applications are starting to look too real - where at the same time, animations and the like are not realistic enough.

 

[bassmasta]

I'd like to see DX10 get the attention it deserves from developers. There's a lot of good stuff it can do.

However, with DX11 having DX10 capabilities, they might finally get around to it.

I liked the comment about using blur to mix real time and cinematics, though I fear in some ways 3d applications are starting to look too real - where at the same time, animations and the like are not realistic enough.

I don't know what you mean by too real. the thing i hate most is a game that gives you a ghillie suit that can't blend into the environment. and animations wouldn't be as fun if they were too real. look at shrek 3. if it were more realistic it would be like the texas chainsaw massacre..

 

[Wshlist]

I like the support for multithreading in DX11, I always wondered why MS doesn't update some of their components like normal software companies do, they only update IE and OE and DX, and do fixes for holes. but take the integrated ZIP, that doesn't use multi-cores nor has a decent 'in progress' indicator (on XP64 at least), and why don't they update such components instead of just rolling out a new GUI called 'vista' (we now all know that 'everything's new in vista' was total BS since it's been proven a lot that that's not true at all)
They have tons of people working for them and they could slowly but steadily improve the OS instead of leaving stuff in from the early 90's and even moving that to next OS's and only improving 3 components, they lack pride in their business it seems.