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MSI Radeon RX 5600 XT Gaming X & Gaming Z

W1zzard

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MSI's Radeon RX 5600 XT Gaming Series comes in two flavors: the Gaming X and the Gaming Z, which has higher memory clocks. We compare both cards and their massive triple-slot thermal solution that achieves amazing temperatures and noise levels. Fan-stop is included, too.

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And just like the ASUS card, why would anyone buy this over the Pulse? It'll be interesting to see how the PowerColor cards perform since they're currently priced at $289.99 for the Red Devil and $309.99 for the Red Dragon. Looks like they have a basic model for $279.99 as well. Gigabyte is coming in at $299.99. All prices according to amazon right now. The Pulse set the bar and so far MSI and ASUS have failed to clear it.
 
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Uhm, so are you going to keep both 12Gbps and 14Gbps versions of rx5600xts on future charts or only one?
 
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Some of these board partners went full retard on the pricing. The new bios gives little o/c headroom so this is just a waste of money over the cards closer to msrp.
 
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What the actual F is MSI doing with these prices?

They just have too damn many skus from the same gpu. I would guess it goes like this: Evoke $279, Evoke OC $289, Mech $299, Mech OC $309, Gaming $319, Gaming X $329, Gaming Z $339.
 
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Shit, for that kind of money, a smart man would buy 5700 and flash 5700xt bios on it.
card like this only makes sense at msrp.
 
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hmm , among all cards , this card is best in term of cooling unless someone cares about 5700, this will be sold out.
 
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And just like the ASUS card, why would anyone buy this over the Pulse?

Well the Strix runs almost 20 degrees cooler ( hotspot ) at the same noise level , which means you can run it almost silently which matters to some :rolleyes:
 

W1zzard

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Uhm, so are you going to keep both 12Gbps and 14Gbps versions of rx5600xts on future charts or only one?
I'm not sure yet. It's not only 12 Gbps vs 14 Gbps memory, but also GPU clock. Cheapest cards will be at least 10% slower than the top ones
 
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Apples to apples comparison of the Gaming Z cards:


The 2060 Gaming Z gets the same overclock over a Reference card as the 5600xt Gaming Z does over the gimped bios.

All 5600xt gpus are limited to just under 15 ghz vram while the 2060 vram is free to run 16 ghz or more.
 
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What the actual F is MSI doing with these prices?

MSI anticipated that RX 5600 XT would launch into a slot in the GPU market where there was no other competition, so it would be a good seller, especially at under the psychological $300 mark. Based on that they budgeted a certain amount of money to design a number of 5600 XT SKUs, covering the performance range from stock to just below 5700.

Then NVIDIA cut RTX 2060 prices by $30 and suddenly the 5600 XT was no longer competitive. AMD had two options, either cut RX 5600 XT prices in return, or increase the card's performance. Since 5600 margins are apparently quite slim as is, AMD chose to release a new higher-performance BIOS.

That means AMD and its AIBs aren't losing money on every RX 5600 XT sold, but it does mean that AIBs with more 5600 XT SKUs - e.g. MSI - are screwed. Because instead of being able to market cards at various points along the clockspeed (performance) range from 1375MHz/12Gbps to slightly over 1615MHz/14Gbps, they now have to start at the higher value. Which means their new "stock speed" card isn't 10%+ behind their fastest card, it's maybe 3%. Which suddenly means that half the 5600 XT SKUs designed by MSI have cannibalised the other half. Which means the design and testing and marketing time spent by MSI on those now-dead SKUs... is a loss for MSI.

There's no way MSI is going to sit back and just accept that. Over its lifetime, maybe the 5600 XT will sell well enough as a whole to recoup those costs. But... maybe it won't. And MSI is a business, it doesn't exist to break even, it exists to make a profit. So MSI is going to pad its 5600 XT prices to ensure it still makes a profit on these cards, which is probably going to make MSI 5600 XTs sell poorly, which is probably going to make MSI think twice about committing so heavily to buy so many AMD GPUs next time around.

On the flipside, you can bet that MSI and every other AIB is reaching out to NVIDIA in a frantic attempt to acquire defective TU104 chips so that they too can make an "RTX 2060 KO". That card is going to make EVGA filthy stinking rich.

(AIBs like Sapphire can afford to leave their 5600 XT cards at original pricing because they didn't design half-a-dozen SKUs, so they have fewer to write off.)

Honestly, the 2060 price drop was a masterpiece. It's an older card, so AIBs have long ago made back the money they spent to create their 2060 SKUs, so they won't mind too much that it's being price-dropped. It won't cannibalise existing SKUs because they're all old stock that's already been cannibalised by the 2060 SUPER. And of course, it gives NVIDIA-favouring AIBs a SKU that can compete with the RX 5600 XT, so they can make more sales.

Honestly it's a massive win-win for NVIDIA and its partners, and a lose-lose for AMD and its partners.

W1zzard said:
I hear from various partners that some Navi 10 chips on the RX 5600 XT are having issues running at 1750 MHz memory — even when paired with 1750 MHz memory chips. It seems the memory controller in some of those GPUs can't handle the higher frequency.

... another win for NVIDIA, and loss for AMD.
 
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hmm , among all cards , this card is best in term of cooling unless someone cares about 5700, this will be sold out.
Doesn't matter; It's getting perilously close to 5700XT pricing, and even the much cheaper 5700 smokes it.
 
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I'm a little confused by the Vega 56 Gears 5 results...... Beating a 1080 ti and destroying vega 64 @W1zzard

gears-5-2560-1440.png
 
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Shit, for that kind of money, a smart man would buy 5700 and flash 5700xt bios on it.
card like this only makes sense at msrp.
"Smart man" and flashing GPU BIOS doesn't look well in the same sentence.
The 2060 Gaming Z gets the same overclock over a Reference card as the 5600xt Gaming Z does over the gimped bios.
I said this will happen in another thread.
AIBs made whole lineups based on original specification.
The OC BIOS provided by AMD made lower-end models pointless and higher-end looking silly.

It's an awful move by AMD. AIBs won't forget this.
And just like the ASUS card, why would anyone buy this over the Pulse?
Simply because ASUS and MSI are known and popular brands, while STRIX and Gaming have very good opinions. Whenever a new GPU comes out, MSI Gaming is the first model I check and usually the one I end up buying.

Also, ASUS and MSI are huge, global sellers. So maybe where you live Sapphire is available and you'll get one of those 20 samples they'll make.
But for many there won't be a choice. They'll go to a store and it'll be filled with MSI/ASUS available instantly. Simple as that.
 
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MSI anticipated that RX 5600 XT would launch into a slot in the GPU market where there was no other competition, so it would be a good seller, especially at under the psychological $300 mark. Based on that they budgeted a certain amount of money to design a number of 5600 XT SKUs, covering the performance range from stock to just below 5700.

Then NVIDIA cut RTX 2060 prices by $30 and suddenly the 5600 XT was no longer competitive. AMD had two options, either cut RX 5600 XT prices in return, or increase the card's performance. Since 5600 margins are apparently quite slim as is, AMD chose to release a new higher-performance BIOS.

That means AMD and its AIBs aren't losing money on every RX 5600 XT sold, but it does mean that AIBs with more 5600 XT SKUs - e.g. MSI - are screwed. Because instead of being able to market cards at various points along the clockspeed (performance) range from 1375MHz/12Gbps to slightly over 1615MHz/14Gbps, they now have to start at the higher value. Which means their new "stock speed" card isn't 10%+ behind their fastest card, it's maybe 3%. Which suddenly means that half the 5600 XT SKUs designed by MSI have cannibalised the other half. Which means the design and testing and marketing time spent by MSI on those now-dead SKUs... is a loss for MSI.

There's no way MSI is going to sit back and just accept that. Over its lifetime, maybe the 5600 XT will sell well enough as a whole to recoup those costs. But... maybe it won't. And MSI is a business, it doesn't exist to break even, it exists to make a profit. So MSI is going to pad its 5600 XT prices to ensure it still makes a profit on these cards, which is probably going to make MSI 5600 XTs sell poorly, which is probably going to make MSI think twice about committing so heavily to buy so many AMD GPUs next time around.

On the flipside, you can bet that MSI and every other AIB is reaching out to NVIDIA in a frantic attempt to acquire defective TU104 chips so that they too can make an "RTX 2060 KO". That card is going to make EVGA filthy stinking rich.

(AIBs like Sapphire can afford to leave their 5600 XT cards at original pricing because they didn't design half-a-dozen SKUs, so they have fewer to write off.)

Honestly, the 2060 price drop was a masterpiece. It's an older card, so AIBs have long ago made back the money they spent to create their 2060 SKUs, so they won't mind too much that it's being price-dropped. It won't cannibalise existing SKUs because they're all old stock that's already been cannibalised by the 2060 SUPER. And of course, it gives NVIDIA-favouring AIBs a SKU that can compete with the RX 5600 XT, so they can make more sales.

Honestly it's a massive win-win for NVIDIA and its partners, and a lose-lose for AMD and its partners.



... another win for NVIDIA, and loss for AMD.
Thanks for that essay. Nice theory but not correct.
 
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@W1zzard

Have you ever considered extreme review, like with modding the VRM, removing upping the current limit and feedback voltage sense pin on the VRM, only for a bit, like 20-30%, and see what it shows?

Or you aren't allow to do that? I am curious just how 7nm really does and how steep the current/frequency@voltage curve looks like. When the leakage starts etc... it would be good insight in future products.
 

W1zzard

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@W1zzard

Have you ever considered extreme review, like with modding the VRM, removing upping the current limit and feedback voltage sense pin on the VRM, only for a bit, like 20-30%, and see what it shows?

Or you aren't allow to do that? I am curious just how 7nm really does and how steep the current/frequency@voltage curve looks like. When the leakage starts etc... it would be good insight in future products.
I'm free to do what I want during review. 5600 XT isn't power limited. Clock limits are still in place. The biggest problem is time though
 
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I'm free to do what I want during review. 5600 XT isn't power limited. Clock limits are still in place. The biggest problem is time though

oh... hex edit is the only way then? At least we have two exact bioses to compare now... that's something. Indeed it would take a lot of time tough, thanks.
 

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oh... hex edit is the only way then? At least we have two exact bioses to compare now... that's something. Indeed it would take a lot of time tough, thanks.
No offense, but what's the goal here?
What you're suggesting has as much in common with using a graphics card (as a product) as checking how much it expands in the oven. :)
 
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No offense, but what's the goal here?
What you're suggesting has as much in common with using a graphics card (as a product) as checking how much it expands in the oven. :)

If you don't treat it as sport and fun... you have ventured in the wrong forum, I started to follow this place seeking GPU overclocking info in the first place... stressing silicon gives many kinds of info also educational not only leisure.

this will break the digital signature in the bios and the driver will no longer load

Yeah I've heard, but sometimes some strange unlocked bioses emerge from somewhere even for signed cards, for example 1080ti(no limiter and voltage unlock). I wonder it was a hack or they had a buddy in the fab.
 

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GeForce RTX 2070 Founders Edition: max 203 Watt = one 8-pin power connector
MSI Radeon RX 5600 XT Gaming X: : max 197 Watt = zwo 8-pin power connectors
...something is wrong :cool:
 
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No offense, but what's the goal here?
What you're suggesting has as much in common with using a graphics card (as a product) as checking how much it expands in the oven. :)

...including "smart men" remark...

Perhaps you've seen this?

https://www.techpowerup.com/vgabios/

It goes for a very long time... That's about how I got here, for the first time - looking for some of that stuff. People like to experiment, push the limits to the max, just to see how it works. People liked stuff like graphic-pen modding Athlon or whatever CPU was in question (paraphrasing), putting Quaddro BIOS on GeForce and so on, soft-enabling the locked cores... Some of those were giving decent results (OC-ing Celeron 300MHz to 450, for example), some are just proof of concept, some are just for fun (liquid nitrogen OC-records - it's apparent to everyone that there is exactly zero sense in cooling a cchip in a way impossible for regular work, to allow ungodly clocks by the price of enormous amount of power used).

But all of it has a significant "fun" moniker to certain people. Yes, modding mid-range product for several % gain if the same can be achieved by investing the same %g in more expensive solution? Not much sense - but perhaps plenty of fun... in trying, if nothing else...
 
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