HP V10 RGB DDR4-3600 CL14 2x 8 GB

[ir_cow]

Winner of the Red Dot and iF 2021 Design awards, HP gives low latency RGB DDR4 memory a new lease of life. With an XMP profile of DDR4-3600 and 14-15-15-35 timings using the infamous Samsung-B Die, it is worth a closer look. Join me as we test this HP V10 RGB memory kit in hopes of striking gold twice!

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[Totally]

These seem to be a rebranded g.skill kit.

 

[Garrus]

Why not buy the 14-14 set at this price though.

$120

OLOy Blade 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3600 (PC4 28800) Desktop Memory Model ND4U0836144BRQDE - Newegg.com

G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3600 (PC4 28800) Intel XMP 2.0 Desktop Memory Model F4-3600C14D-16GVKA - Newegg.com

DDR4 is so cheap now, even the best 3600c14-14 stuff

 

[mechtech]

wow 1.45V especially with a 5-yr warranty

How low of voltage does this need at 3200 with say 16-16-16??

 

[ir_cow]

wow 1.45V especially with a 5-yr warranty

How low of voltage does this need at 3200 with say 16-16-16??

Probably 1.35v, that seems standard. Maybe 1.3 V if you are lucky.

Edit: oh you said CL16. I would say 1.3V. Not sure you can go much lower even with looser timings.

 

[mechtech]

Probably 1.35v, that seems standard. Maybe 1.3 V if you are lucky.

Edit: oh you said CL16. I would say 1.3V. Not sure you can go much lower even with looser timings.

Ok, so B-die wont hit 1.20V at 3200 with jedec timings then?

 

[ir_cow]

Ok, so B-die wont hit 1.20V at 3200 with jedec timings then?

It will, but JEDEC 3200 is CL20 @ 1.2 V. If you are looking for CL16, it going to be closer to 1.3 V. Maybe 1.25 V. I haven't seen a retail kit that is sold with that low of a voltage with those timings.

Roughly you are looking at this for 3200 memory
CL14 - 1.35 V
CL16 - 1.3 V
CL20 - 1.2 V

 

[Mussels]

These really need to be tested with four sticks as well as two, to see if the extra ranks change the performance

 

[ir_cow]

These really need to be tested with four sticks as well as two, to see if the extra ranks change the performance

I have G.Skill Neo 4x 3600 CL16 in the charts. I had a hell of a time getting 1T out of it. Takes a bit more supporting voltages. 4x Single Rank is harder on the memory controller vs 2x dual rank. Or 4x DR > 4x Single Rank > 2x Dual Rank > 2x Single Rank). If you just let the MB do its Auto thing, it will either go to 2:1 Ratio or 2T for 4X.

 

[Mussels]

I have G.Skill Neo 4x 3600 CL16 in the charts. I had a hell of a time getting 1T out of it. Takes a bit more supporting voltages. 4x Single Rank is harder on the memory controller vs 2x dual rank. Or 4x DR > 4x Single Rank > 2x Dual Rank > 2x Single Rank). If you just let the MB do its Auto thing, it will either go to 2:1 Ratio or 2T for 4X.

4/8 ranks is harder but often changes the performance a lot

Seeing 3600 C14 perform so erratically... i mean its worse than the Gskill ram with the same timings? It's odd to see

Oh, and i dont mean magically at the same settings, but even just testing to know if it works out of the box on AMD and intel, and whats required to make it work will absolutely have value to users

 

[ir_cow]

Oh, and i dont mean magically at the same settings, but even just testing to know if it works out of the box on AMD and intel, and whats required to make it work will absolutely have value to users

Ah. I understand now. That is a good question to ask. Hmmm I don't often get many 4x kits to review, but some people do buy 2x dual kits. Maybe worth a short article about the woes of filling in all the slots on a dual channel CPU.

 

[Taraquin]

A couple of questions related to test setup and custom settings. Your SOC, IOD, CCD and VDDP voltages are insanely high. 1.2, 1.15, 1.15 and 1.1, is this auto setting? Surprised that they are that high, 1.15, 1.05, 0.95 and 0.9 should be more than good enough making IO-die use less energy and letting cores boost higher

As for tuning, when testing B-die I think you should lower RFC. This is the big edge B-die has vs all other dies. At 4000 even poor binned B-die at 1.5V can run RFC at 300 or below, this will improve performance by several percent

 

[Woomack]

These seem to be a rebranded g.skill kit.

This is RAM manufactured by BIWIN for HP. It has nothing to do with G.Skill but the quality is about the same and it's overclocking about the same as other high Samsung B based series.

I could easily push this kit to 3600 13-13-13, 4000 14-14-14, or 4800 17-17-17 on MSI Z590I Unify when I was testing it last month. Of course, these settings require 1.5V+ but this is normal for Samsung B, regardless of RAM brand.

Re cons in the review. How the SPD profile can be a con? This is how this specific Samsung B IC is specified.
A 5-year warranty can be better or worse if you know how it works and you actually read warranty terms. A lifetime warranty doesn't mean it's infinite. Usually, it means it's up to 1-2 years after the end of production or as long as the stock is available unless the manufacturer specified otherwise. It can be 10+ years but it depends on the manufacturer. A 5-year warranty means it's guaranteed for 5 years no matter what. So yes, brands like G.Skill replace your old RAM after 5-10 years, but many others won't. Also, there are countries like Germany where a lifetime warranty doesn't exist. Most brands mark it then as 2-10 years, depending on the product.

 

[Haile Selassie]

Run of the mill mediocre Samsung B-die. Not even a 4000MHz+ bin, let alone 2x16GB. And these deserve an award?

It's 2022, we have high-capacity high-bin Micron E-die DDR4, DDR5 and your "good enough" DDR4-3600 Hynix.
Samsung B-die is an antiquated IC for 2022 from a capacity standpoint. What's next, revival of Winbond BH-5?

 

[ThrashZone]

Why not buy the 14-14 set at this price though.

$120

OLOy Blade 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3600 (PC4 28800) Desktop Memory Model ND4U0836144BRQDE - Newegg.com

G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3600 (PC4 28800) Intel XMP 2.0 Desktop Memory Model F4-3600C14D-16GVKA - Newegg.com

DDR4 is so cheap now, even the best 3600c14-14 stuff

Hi,
Seems the cost for c14 at 3600 and above
Not sure it's of any real benefit either seeing at 1.45v you can easily do 4000c16 and just lower latency in bios to c14 but stay at 16-16-16-36 norm b-die sammy timings.

 

[HairyLobsters]

These seem to be a rebranded g.skill kit.

Surprised the article doesn't mention this, but these are actually made by a Chinese company called BIWIN, they also make these with Acer branding. The warranty isn't even covered by HP, but by BIWIN.

 

[ir_cow]

A couple of questions related to test setup and custom settings. Your SOC, IOD, CCD and VDDP voltages are insanely high. 1.2, 1.15, 1.15 and 1.1, is this auto setting? Surprised that they are that high, 1.15, 1.05, 0.95 and 0.9 should be more than good enough making IO-die use less energy and letting cores boost higher

As for tuning, when testing B-die I think you should lower RFC. This is the big edge B-die has vs all other dies. At 4000 even poor binned B-die at 1.5V can run RFC at 300 or below, this will improve performance by several percent

1.2 V for SoC is more or less required for 1T with GDM disabled on the MB I use. It will vary per vendor of course, but really I would say 1.15-1.2 V is within the ball-park. The rest of the voltages are a saved profile so I don't have to play with it every time I want to do the overclocking portion. Dual Rank 1T/GDM Disabled - these are the voltages I need for 100% stability.

I agree B-Die can have lower tRFC, it is also very temperature sensitive. A direct fan or waterblock will keep you stable for long up-times, but no it is guarantee. tRFC 560 is the safe "OC" value. You can type that in and have little to no problems (with the correct voltage of course). tRFC is just the refresh of the banks in clock cycles. Shorter times, means it has more opportunity to obey commands. We are talking about nanoseconds. The tradeoff is, that if you go to low, you straight up lose the data in the cells or get the "silent errors" that over time will corrupt things one bit at a time. The solution to this of course, is to run your favorite memory test program for 6+ hours to make sure its stable for long term use. This will also be case by case per DIMM as not ICs are made equal. To get to the point I'm trying to make is that while tRFC can be lower, 300 is iffy for the average user. I wouldn't want them to copy/paste my overclock and have instant crashes. Or even worse those silent errors.

Run of the mill mediocre Samsung B-die. Not even a 4000MHz+ bin, let alone 2x16GB. And these deserve an award?

It's 2022, we have high-capacity high-bin Micron E-die DDR4, DDR5 and your "good enough" DDR4-3600 Hynix.
Samsung B-die is an antiquated IC for 2022 from a capacity standpoint. What's next, revival of Winbond BH-5?

Yes it deserves an award. If you are looking at it strictly from a consumer point of view that wants the "best" retail has to offer. You can get cheaper memory with looser timings. You can get 32GB kits as well from HP, though that is CL16. This shouldn't be directly compared to 32GB/64GB kits, because that is Apples to Oranges. It seems from your statement higher the density, the greater its value. I guess my AMD Threadripper with 64GB @ 2933 CL12 is superior from that prospective.

As enthusiast level consumer DDR4, it fills out the checklist. 1) Low RETAIL timings 2) phenomenal RGB implementation 3) 3600 MT/s XMP, which is great for plug n play for Intel 11th, 12th Gen and Ryzen Zen2/3 to keep that 1:1 memory ratio 4) Samsung B-Die that is already well binned if your into light overclocking.

If you know what you are doing, other kits exist that are cheaper. In the past I've bought 4400 CL19 B-Die that half the price of all B-Die a the time (when it was easy to find). Tuned it to 4000 CL15 and made out like a bandit. Very few people overclock memory and most do it wildly incorrect, leaving the memory unstable and the user unaware. Just because it boots into windows, does not mean it is stable. This memory is marketed for the PC enthusiast consumer with guaranteed B-Die ICs and it delivers on the that promise. That is why it was given an award.

I could easily push this kit to 3600 13-13-13, 4000 14-14-14, or 4800 17-17-17 on MSI Z590I Unify when I was testing it last month. Of course, these settings require 1.5V+ but this is normal for Samsung B, regardless of RAM brand.

If your going down to odd numbers, Gear Down Mode must be disabled for AMD. At least the CAS value needs to be a even number or it is ignored. Secondly, B-die is temperature sensitive. Going below CAS14 will be per case basis.

Re cons in the review. How the SPD profile can be a con? This is how this specific Samsung B IC is specified.

Yes SPD is a con. A fallback of 2133 MT/s is a joke for 2022. Usually memory will have 13 JEDEC profiles, so the MB can pick the "highest" one it is programed to accept in the event that either XMP does not work or not an option. In this case, the highest available is 2133 MT/s. A second XMP of 3200 CL14 would be ideal. Second best is to have the JEDEC up to 3200 MT/s.

Surprised the article doesn't mention this, but these are actually made by a Chinese company called BIWIN, they also make these with Acer branding. The warranty isn't even covered by HP, but by BIWIN.

BIWIN is the official licensee. The box does not say BIWIN on it. Besides the product page being on BIWIN website, it is a HP product. They give the stamp of approval, at the end of the day their company brand is on the line, not BIWIN. So its a HP product regardless of the OEM. Would you say Foxconn is the really just Apple in disguise? of course not. But mostly everything from Apple is made by Foxconn.

 

[Mussels]

Run of the mill mediocre Samsung B-die. Not even a 4000MHz+ bin, let alone 2x16GB. And these deserve an award?

It's 2022, we have high-capacity high-bin Micron E-die DDR4, DDR5 and your "good enough" DDR4-3600 Hynix.
Samsung B-die is an antiquated IC for 2022 from a capacity standpoint. What's next, revival of Winbond BH-5?

Awards are only for the best product now?
I guess we need to go remove all awards for everything a month after launch then...


Maybe, just maybe, it's still a good product?

 

[Taraquin]

1.2 V for SoC is more or less required for 1T with GDM disabled on the MB I use. It will vary per vendor of course, but really I would say 1.15-1.2 V is within the ball-park. The rest of the voltages are a saved profile so I don't have to play with it every time I want to do the overclocking portion. Dual Rank 1T/GDM Disabled - these are the voltages I need for 100% stability.

I agree B-Die can have lower tRFC, it is also very temperature sensitive. A direct fan or waterblock will keep you stable for long up-times, but no it is guarantee. tRFC 560 is the safe "OC" value. You can type that in and have little to no problems (with the correct voltage of course). tRFC is just the refresh of the banks in clock cycles. Shorter times, means it has more opportunity to obey commands. We are talking about nanoseconds. The tradeoff is, that if you go to low, you straight up lose the data in the cells or get the "silent errors" that over time will corrupt things one bit at a time. The solution to this of course, is to run your favorite memory test program for 6+ hours to make sure its stable for long term use. This will also be case by case per DIMM as not ICs are made equal. To get to the point I'm trying to make is that while tRFC can be lower, 300 is iffy for the average user. I wouldn't want them to copy/paste my overclock and have instant crashes. Or even worse those silent errors.


Yes it deserves an award. If you are looking at it strictly from a consumer point of view that wants the "best" retail has to offer. You can get cheaper memory with looser timings. You can get 32GB kits as well from HP, though that is CL16. This shouldn't be directly compared to 32GB/64GB kits, because that is Apples to Oranges. It seems from your statement higher the density, the greater its value. I guess my AMD Threadripper with 64GB @ 2933 CL12 is superior from that prospective.

As enthusiast level consumer DDR4, it fills out the checklist. 1) Low RETAIL timings 2) phenomenal RGB implementation 3) 3600 MT/s XMP, which is great for plug n play for Intel 11th, 12th Gen and Ryzen Zen2/3 to keep that 1:1 memory ratio 4) Samsung B-Die that is already well binned if your into light overclocking.

If you know what you are doing, other kits exist that are cheaper. In the past I've bought 4400 CL19 B-Die that half the price of all B-Die a the time (when it was easy to find). Tuned it to 4000 CL15 and made out like a bandit. Very few people overclock memory and most do it wildly incorrect, leaving the memory unstable and the user unaware. Just because it boots into windows, does not mean it is stable. This memory is marketed for the PC enthusiast consumer with guaranteed B-Die ICs and it delivers on the that promise. That is why it was given an award.


If your going down to odd numbers, Gear Down Mode must be disabled for AMD. At least the CAS value needs to be a even number or it is ignored. Secondly, B-die is temperature sensitive. Going below CAS14 will be per case basis.


Yes SPD is a con. A fallback of 2133 MT/s is a joke for 2022. Usually memory will have 13 JEDEC profiles, so the MB can pick the "highest" one it is programed to accept in the event that either XMP does not work or not an option. In this case, the highest available is 2133 MT/s. A second XMP of 3200 CL14 would be ideal. Second best is to have the JEDEC up to 3200 MT/s.


BIWIN is the official licensee. The box does not say BIWIN on it. Besides the product page being on BIWIN website, it is a HP product. They give the stamp of approval, at the end of the day their company brand is on the line, not BIWIN. So its a HP product regardless of the OEM. Would you say Foxconn is the really just Apple in disguise? of course not. But mostly everything from Apple is made by Foxconn.

On rare occations that much soc may be needed, but I have never seen the need for iod/ccd above 1.1v and vvdp above 1v. I have tuned a lot if B-die and if airflow is good RFC can be run far below 560 at 4000. RFC scales linear with voltage and even trash bins can do 350 at 4000. 3600cl14 is a very good bin.

 

[ir_cow]

On rare occations that much soc may be needed, but I have never seen the need for iod/ccd above 1.1v and vvdp above 1v. I have tuned a lot if B-die and if airflow is good RFC can be run far below 560 at 4000. RFC scales linear with voltage and even trash bins can do 350 at 4000. 3600cl14 is a very good bin.

We will just have to agree to disagree on this one. Your mileage may vary.

For example, If all b-die kits could do the same than that Ryzen Calculator would be perfect, yet people are taking those values as absolute. Its a great tool, but is more of a guideline. Same goes with RFC. It is also not of significance outside of benchmarks to go from 560 to 350. The other timings like tFAW is more important for tuning.

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
Not sure what the significance is in reviewing a 2x8gb 3600c14 kit is atm seeing most are more interested in 4x8gb 16gb sticks or 2x16gb kits at higher speeds.

Last I remember 2x8 or even single channel 1x8gb these two items were mostly preferred in setting world records not 24/7 use kits.
So where is your world record frequency on this trivial 3600c14 2x8gb kit ?

 

[Taraquin]

We will just have to agree to disagree on this one. Your mileage may vary.

For example, If all b-die kits could do the same than that Ryzen Calculator would be perfect, yet people are taking those values as absolute. Its a great tool, but is more of a guideline. Same goes with RFC. It is also not of significance outside of benchmarks to go from 560 to 350. The other timings like tFAW is more important for tuning.

Faw matters, but rfc is by far the most important timing for gaming. Gamers nexus can show you the difference between 560 and 416 rfc:

All other subs unchanged. The middle kit has 416 rfc, the bottom 560, rest of timings are equal acvording to Tech-Jesus. I have done a lot of ram tuning and good tweaked B-die generally outperforms the next best (Micron rev E and Hynix DJR) by around 5%. B-die can run a bit tighter RCDRD and RC than rev E, and tighter RCDRD and RP than DJR, except for that the can run similar 2nds/thirds on FAW, WR, CWL etc. The major difference is RFC where on 4000 B-die sits at 240-320 (unless airflow is shit it can overheat) if you use 1.45v+, while rev E needs 540-600 and DJR needs 480-560. If B-die could run CL10 while best rev E could do was CL16 then CL may have had a larger imoact, but generally the only timing that really separates B-die from the rest is RFC.

 

[ir_cow]

Faw matters, but rfc is by far the most important timing for gaming. Gamers nexus can show you the difference between 560 and 416 rfc:
View attachment 244408

What is this chart in context? While I agree sub-timings can play a role if better frame-rate, from my own testing, it comes down to the resolution, graphical settings and game (engine). Also that chart does not show the tRFC for the other two kits. they could very well be the same for all we know. Displaying a chart and declaring it as proof for all scenarios is inaccurate.

This chart says nothing about the game, resolution or graphical settings. While Gamers Nexus may have concluded that tRFC is always beneficial, it is more likely that this should be considered a case-study with a sample size of one.

Not sure what the significance is in reviewing a 2x8gb 3600c14 kit is atm seeing most are more interested in 4x8gb 16gb sticks or 2x16gb kits at higher speeds.

I review what is sent to me. You will almost never see 4x kit sent to reviewers on a dual-channel CPU. It is just a PR nightmare waiting to happen. Quad kits are for quad-channel CPUs. This scenario plays out all to often. Reviewer can't get it to run at the "rated" XMP profile, declares it a unworthy product. Customs buy another brand instead. Still Quad kit for a dual-channel CPU. Four DIMMs aren't always plug-n play on a dual-channel CPU, or MB. Even though it may have 4-slots, it does not guarantee stability.

 

[Taraquin]

What is this chart in context? While I agree sub-timings can play a role if better frame-rate, from my own testing, it comes down to the resolution, graphical settings and game (engine). Also that chart does not show the tRFC for the other two kits. they could very well be the same for all we know. Displaying a chart and declaring it as proof for all scenarios is inaccurate.

This chart says nothing about the game, resolution or graphical settings. While Gamers Nexus may have concluded that tRFC is always beneficial, it is more likely that this should be considered a case-study with a sample size of one.


I review what is sent to me. You will almost never see 4x kit sent to reviewers on a dual-channel CPU. It is just a PR nightmare waiting to happen. Quad kits are for quad-channel CPUs. This scenario plays out all to often. Reviewer can't get it to run at the "rated" XMP profile, declares it a unworthy product. Customs buy another brand instead. Still Quad kit for a dual-channel CPU. Four DIMMs aren't always plug-n play on a dual-channel CPU, or MB. Even though it may have 4-slots, it does not guarantee stability.

https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3333-memory-timings-defined-cas-latency-trcd-trp-tras from this, it compared 2 jedec kits and shows that adjusting rfc by itself with no other adjustments increased avg by 5% and lows by 20%. Rfc has a very high impact on lows, this will be quite noticable in gaming if lows drop below 60fps. I can post a result from SOTTR if you want? I compared timings of B-die vs rev E vs DJR earlier, the only major difference was RFC, RCDRD and RC also contributed, but to a lesser degree.

A small ram-tuning test comparing B-die vs rev E vs DJR

Made a small test comparing the 3 best ram-dies available for DDR4. All tested with B-die, but changed timings to 2 setups I know are 100% stabile with DJR and rev E, DJR-setup is from a guy I know running this and rev E I have previously tested myself. It is only CL, RCDRD, RP, RAS, RC og RFC...

www.techpowerup.com

 

[ir_cow]

https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3333-memory-timings-defined-cas-latency-trcd-trp-tras from this, it compared 2 jedec kits and shows that adjusting rfc by itself with no other adjustments increased avg by 5% and lows by 20%. Rfc has a very high impact on lows, this will be quite noticable in gaming if lows drop below 60fps. I can post a result from SOTTR if you want? I compared timings of B-die vs rev E vs DJR earlier, the only major difference was RFC, RCDRD and RC also contributed, but to a lesser degree.

A small ram-tuning test comparing B-die vs rev E vs DJR

Made a small test comparing the 3 best ram-dies available for DDR4. All tested with B-die, but changed timings to 2 setups I know are 100% stabile with DJR and rev E, DJR-setup is from a guy I know running this and rev E I have previously tested myself. It is only CL, RCDRD, RP, RAS, RC og RFC...

www.techpowerup.com

I'm no disagreeing that tRFC has a impact in certain setups. What I am saying is that it cannot be said as a blanketed statement as you are implying. I applies more to 1920x1080 resolution with lower graphical settings, but some games like Metro: Exodus doesn't care at all what the tRFC value is.