• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

China Continues to Enhance AI Chip Self-Sufficiency, but High-End AI Chip Development Remains Constrained

TheLostSwede

News Editor
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Messages
17,595 (2.41/day)
Location
Sweden
System Name Overlord Mk MLI
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard Gigabyte X670E Aorus Master
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 SE with offsets
Memory 32GB Team T-Create Expert DDR5 6000 MHz @ CL30-34-34-68
Video Card(s) Gainward GeForce RTX 4080 Phantom GS
Storage 1TB Solidigm P44 Pro, 2 TB Corsair MP600 Pro, 2TB Kingston KC3000
Display(s) Acer XV272K LVbmiipruzx 4K@160Hz
Case Fractal Design Torrent Compact
Audio Device(s) Corsair Virtuoso SE
Power Supply be quiet! Pure Power 12 M 850 W
Mouse Logitech G502 Lightspeed
Keyboard Corsair K70 Max
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores https://valid.x86.fr/yfsd9w
Huawei's subsidiary HiSilicon has made significant strides in the independent R&D of AI chips, launching the next-gen Ascend 910B. These chips are utilized not only in Huawei's public cloud infrastructure but also sold to other Chinese companies. This year, Baidu ordered over a thousand Ascend 910B chips from Huawei to build approximately 200 AI servers. Additionally, in August, Chinese company iFlytek, in partnership with Huawei, released the "Gemini Star Program," a hardware and software integrated device for exclusive enterprise LLMs, equipped with the Ascend 910B AI acceleration chip, according to TrendForce's research.

TrendForce conjectures that the next-generation Ascend 910B chip is likely manufactured using SMIC's N+2 process. However, the production faces two potential risks. Firstly, as Huawei recently focused on expanding its smartphone business, the N+2 process capacity at SMIC is almost entirely allocated to Huawei's smartphone products, potentially limiting future capacity for AI chips. Secondly, SMIC remains on the Entity List, possibly restricting access to advanced process equipment.




Market analysis indicates that the Ascend 910B's performance slightly lags behind the A800 series and its software ecosystem significantly differs from NVIDIA's CUDA, impacting usage efficiency. However, considering the potential expansion of U.S. restrictions, Chinese manufacturers might be compelled to shift toward the Ascend 910B. There remains considerable potential for China to improve and establish a complete AI ecosystem.

US sanctions drive Chinese CSPs to increase investment in AI chip autonomy
Chinese CSPs like Baidu and Alibaba are actively investing in autonomous AI chip development. Baidu developed its first self-researched ASIC AI chip, Kunlunxin, in early 2020, with its second generation scheduled for mass production in 2021 and the third expected to launch in 2024. Post-2023, Baidu aims to use Huawei's Ascend 910B acceleration chips and expand the use of Kunlunxin chips for its AI infrastructure.

After Alibaba's acquisition of CPU IP supplier Zhongtian Micro Systems in April 2018 and the establishment of T-Head Semiconductor in September of the same year, the company began developing its own ASIC AI chips, including the Hanguang 800. TrendForce reports that T-Head's initial ASIC chips were co-designed with external companies like GUC. However, after 2023, Alibaba is expected to increasingly leverage its internal resources to enhance the independent design capabilities of its next-gen ASIC chips, primarily for Alibaba Cloud's AI infrastructure.

China's high-end AI chip development is limited by the US Entity List and restrictions on advanced process EDA
The U.S. sanctions encompass both software and hardware aspects of China's high-performance computing (HPC) and AI application sectors. Notably, in October 2023, the U.S. Department of Commerce added companies like Biren and Moore Threads to the Entity List. Additionally, regulations governing advanced manufacturing processes, such as logic ICs with processes finer than 16 nm, DRAM with processes finer than 18 nm, and NAND Flash with more than 128 layers designated for export to China, were introduced. These measures have extended the review criteria for AI chip hardware design beyond total processing performance to include performance density requirements, thereby complicating the supply of high-end AI chips from leading manufacturers like NVIDIA and AMD.

Beyond the 2023 U.S. sanctions, the latter half of 2022 saw significant restrictions on EDA semiconductor design software tools, particularly affecting the design of advanced processes like Samsung's 3 nm or TSMC's 2 nm technologies. Although the mainstream market chips, such as NVIDIA's A100 and AMD's MI200, are based on the 6/7 nm process, and upcoming models like NVIDIA H100 and AMD MI300 series are expected to shift to 4/5 nm processes by 2024, TrendForce forecasts that, despite EDA restrictions not having an immediate significant impact in the short term, they will pose long-term challenges for China in adopting more advanced processes and in the development of next-gen, higher-performance HPC or AI chips.

View at TechPowerUp Main Site | Source
 
Joined
Feb 20, 2020
Messages
9,340 (5.38/day)
Location
Louisiana
System Name Ghetto Rigs z490|x99|Acer 17 Nitro 7840hs/ 5600c40-2x16/ 4060/ 1tb acer stock m.2/ 4tb sn850x
Processor 10900k w/Optimus Foundation | 5930k w/Black Noctua D15
Motherboard z490 Maximus XII Apex | x99 Sabertooth
Cooling oCool D5 res-combo/280 GTX/ Optimus Foundation/ gpu water block | Blk D15
Memory Trident-Z Royal 4000c16 2x16gb | Trident-Z 3200c14 4x8gb
Video Card(s) Titan Xp-water | evga 980ti gaming-w/ air
Storage 970evo+500gb & sn850x 4tb | 860 pro 256gb | Acer m.2 1tb/ sn850x 4tb| Many2.5" sata's ssd 3.5hdd's
Display(s) 1-AOC G2460PG 24"G-Sync 144Hz/ 2nd 1-ASUS VG248QE 24"/ 3rd LG 43" series
Case D450 | Cherry Entertainment center on Test bench
Audio Device(s) Built in Realtek x2 with 2-Insignia 2.0 sound bars & 1-LG sound bar
Power Supply EVGA 1000P2 with APC AX1500 | 850P2 with CyberPower-GX1325U
Mouse Redragon 901 Perdition x3
Keyboard G710+x3
Software Win-7 pro x3 and win-10 & 11pro x3
Benchmark Scores Are in the benchmark section
Hi,
TicTok users will still have fun with them :cool:
 
Joined
Oct 6, 2021
Messages
1,605 (1.41/day)
China already surpassed the US in A.I. research quality and quantity, the only card the west has is to withhold silicon shipments. And guess what, SMIC is rapidly developing 5nm tools, independently. China will win.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/China-tech/China-trounces-U.S.-in-AI-research-output-and-quality
Oh my god, man... You're really going to pull that card. Serious ? papers ?

OIG (1).jpg
 

the54thvoid

Super Intoxicated Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 14, 2009
Messages
13,047 (2.39/day)
Location
Glasgow - home of formal profanity
Processor Ryzen 7800X3D
Motherboard MSI MAG Mortar B650 (wifi)
Cooling be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 4
Memory 32GB Kingston Fury
Video Card(s) Gainward RTX4070ti
Storage Seagate FireCuda 530 M.2 1TB / Samsumg 960 Pro M.2 512Gb
Display(s) LG 32" 165Hz 1440p GSYNC
Case Asus Prime AP201
Audio Device(s) On Board
Power Supply be quiet! Pure POwer M12 850w Gold (ATX3.0)
Software W10
^^ Ironically, an AI generated picture.
 
Top