Intel "Panther Lake" Targets Substantial AI Performance Leap in 2025

[T0@st]

Pat Gelsinger, CEO of Intel Corporation, has outlined future performance expectations for the company's Core range of processors. In a recent fourth quarter 2023 earnings call he declared: "The Core Ultra platform delivers leadership AI performance today with our next-generation platforms launching later this year, Lunar Lake and Arrow Lake tripling our AI performance. In 2025 with Panther Lake, we will grow AI performance up to an additional 2x." Team Blue's Intel Core Ultra "Meteor Lake" mobile processors arrived right at the tail end of last year, as a somewhat delayed answer to AMD's Ryzen 7040 "Phoenix" APU series—both leveraging their own AI-crunching NPU technologies. Gelsinger believes that the launch of Lunar Lake and Arrow Lake Core product lines will bring significant (3x) AI processing improvements over Meteor Lake. He seemed to confident in a delay-free release schedule for the new year and beyond: "We are first in the industry to have incorporated both gate-all-around and backside power delivery in a single process node, the latter unexpected two years ahead of our competition. Arrow Lake, our lead Intel 20A vehicle will launch this year."

He proceeded to gush about their next node advancement: "Intel 18A is expected to achieve manufacturing readiness in second half 2024, completing our five nodes in four year journey and bringing us back to process leadership. I am pleased to say that Clearwater Forest, our first Intel 18A part for servers has already gone into fab and Panther Lake for clients will be heading into Fab shortly." Industry experts posit that Core "Panther Lake" parts could borrow elements from the next generation Xeon "Clearwater Forest" efficiency-focused family—possibly the latter's "Darkmont" E-cores, to accompany "Cougar Cove" P-cores. The Intel CEO is quite excited about the manufacturing outlay for 2025: "I'll just say, hey, we look at this every single day and we're scrutinizing carefully our progress on 18A. And obviously the great news that we just described those Clearwater Forest taping out, that gives us a lot of confidence that 18A is healthy. That's a major product for us. Panther Lake following that shortly."



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[Assimilator]

Nobody cares about your "AI" performance. We care about the fact that your architecture is ancient, its IPC is shit, and your chips are clocked way outside their comfort zone to compensate.

 

[Onasi]

All I got from this is “Lake Lake Lake Lake AI Lake Lake Lake Lake”.
Intel, I beg you, please change up the naming scheme. I don’t think anyone can keep track of all the Lakes anymore.

 

[Vayra86]

All I got from this is “Lake Lake Lake Lake AI Lake Lake Lake Lake”.
Intel, I beg you, please change up the naming scheme. I don’t think anyone can keep track of all the Lakes anymore.

Here, take this Laike then

 

[TumbleGeorge]

Nobody cares about your "AI" performance. We care about the fact that your architecture is ancient, its IPC is shit, and your chips are clocked way outside their comfort zone to compensate.

It used to be about ray tracing, scaling with dlss, and generating fake frames. With the progress of time, less and less grumbling, and the fen base of Nvidia, even counts these things as an advantage over AMD. To laugh or not, I don't know anymore. I think that for AI will be same.

 

[Daven]

It makes sense that Intel is lowering its IPC generation to generation going forward in favor of AI performance.

AI is the next big thing.

 

[trparky]

Nobody cares about your "AI" performance. We care about the fact that your architecture is ancient, its IPC is shit, and your chips are clocked way outside their comfort zone to compensate.

Agreed. We want chips that use less power, output less heat, and are still just as performant. Right now, AMD has that or at least they're on the right track.

 

[mb194dc]

Can Gelsinger talk any more garbage in a desperate attempt to support the stock price..?

Intel is trading at P/E of a hundred, revenue declined 14% in the last full year. They're behind Nvidia and AMD with regards to LLM chips, by the time they even get a competitive product out, if they ever do the market will likely be sown up, gone.

Yes AMD and Nvidia valuations are ludicrous as well, at least the latter is making lots of money. AMD despite a better product stack than Intel somehow trades at 1000x PE. Probably won't end well, like Cisco back in 2000.

 

[Vayra86]

It makes sense that Intel is lowering its IPC generation to generation going forward in favor of AI performance.

AI is the next big thing.

Indeed much like crypto, VR, AR, and curved phone screens were the next big thing.

We are lightyears away from AI. Its just the next move to generate money.

 

[mb194dc]

Indeed much like crypto, VR, AR, and curved phone screens were the next big thing.

We are lightyears away from AI. Its just the next move to generate money.

There are "AI" LLM end use products like Github copilot, Heygen video translation or chat bots like Chatgpt that people will actually pay for. They're legitimate technical improvements and good products.

It's not like Crypto where there's zero practical use case other than pyramid scheme esq buy and sell for more speculation.

Yes we're light years from actual Artificial Intelligence. There is end use behind what essentially has become mass hysteria. Exactly like Cisco back in the day in 2000.

 

[FoulOnWhite]

people really hate Intel don't they.

 

[thesmokingman]

people really hate Intel don't they.

Peeps don't forget decades of gouging, market collusion, and the disdain they had for their enthusiasts users.

 

[ZoneDymo]

people really hate Intel don't they.

meh hate goes far but man the company is just being meh, the 12th gen was pretty sweet again but since then....big meh.
Also that whole "snake oil" post does not help them a lot.....

Their gpu division stirs up some love though I think.

 

[Vayra86]

There are "AI" LLM end use products like Github copilot, Heygen video translation or chat bots like Chatgpt that people will actually pay for. They're legitimate technical improvements and good products.

It's not like Crypto where there's zero practical use case other than pyramid scheme esq buy and sell for more speculation.

Yes we're light years from actual Artificial Intelligence. There is end use behind what essentially has become mass hysteria. Exactly like Cisco back in the day in 2000.

AI to me is just a buzzword until its an actual intelligence.

An advanced search engine is not intelligence, its a more complex algorithm. It is somewhere on the ladder towards a real kind of intelligence, and invites us to think about the ramifications and the actual definition of it - what IS intelligence, for example, when all information is already under our fingertips. I think true intelligence is about what you can actually do with information, and part of that 'product' is also directly how the product actually benefits us. There are upsides to our current form of 'AI'. But also many downsides. Its not even decided what weighs in more - weight being a very literal thing, as it is part of the key to machine learning: how you weigh each bit of information you feed a model. And then it becomes clear every single AI is still limited by it being a human construct. We're closing in on a paradox here.

 

[thesmokingman]

AI to me is just a buzzword until its an actual intelligence.

An advanced search engine is not intelligence, its a more complex algorithm.

Nah, there's real AI out there. Ironically the most advanced one net to net is in a car. I mean sure you can believe its not real all you want... shrugs. Once the elites carried around phones the size of carry on luggage too.

 

[Assimilator]

It used to be about ray tracing, scaling with dlss, and generating fake frames. With the progress of time, less and less grumbling, and the fen base of Nvidia, even counts these things as an advantage over AMD. To laugh or not, I don't know anymore. I think that for AI will be same.

What NVIDIA is doing with DLSS et al is machine learning, which is not AI, but at least NVIDIA's "AI" actually delivers concrete features for gamers, so I'm willing to give them a pass. Every other company spouts bullshit about AI without delivering any products.

people really hate Intel don't they.

I hate any and all technology companies that cover up for their consistent lack of innovation with endless bullshit.

Nah, there's real AI out there. Ironically the most advanced one net to net is in a car. I mean sure you can believe its not real all you want... shrugs. Once the elites carried around phones the size of carry on luggage too.

That is not AI. Just because you don't understand what AI is, doesn't make you right.

 

[Vayra86]

Nah, there's real AI out there. Ironically the most advanced one net to net is in a car. I mean sure you can believe its not real all you want... shrugs. Once the elites carried around phones the size of carry on luggage too.

Right, so my front door light that 'senses' people in front of it to turn itself on is AI, gotcha.

Toaster, another such magical device. I still don't get how it gets those sandwiches so nice and crispy.

 

[EatingDirt]

people really hate Intel don't they.

For me, it's mostly a negative sentiment from the lack of progress we got from intel for nearly 7 years, between the 2xxx & 7xxx series, and the constant useless sockets every 2 generations that they 'refreshed' during that time, a practice they've continued, while AMD has given us an AM4 socket that lasted 4.5(X3D) generations of Zen processors that included huge leaps in performance. So far, it appears that AM5 may be given a similar treatment, at least in terms of generational support.

 

[thesmokingman]

Right, so my front door light that 'senses' people in front of it to turn itself on is AI, gotcha.

Toaster, another such magical device. I still don't get how it gets those sandwiches so nice and crispy.

Get off my lawn much?

 

[Denver]

people really hate Intel don't they.

Without a doubt, serious mistakes were made... but I was rooting for the fab business to work, so that TSMC would gain a worthy competitor. Contrary to what I expected, Intel became a TSMC customer.

Well, I can still root for Samsung.

 

[efikkan]

Unfortunately, everything points to "AI" being the big gimmick everywhere for the next few years, even though it has little to do with actual artificial intelligence, and there is no intelligence about it. Despite all the buzzwords about deep learning, neural networks, etc. laymen can really just think of it as a larger statistical model, and it certainly has its uses, but for most people it doesn't really matter at all. And it's not really that new either, it's just that the models have gotten bigger. And the theories behind what today is called "AI" stems from around the 1960s, and nothing we see now is unexpected, so the field is far away from anything resembling actual AI.
Edit: But let's not forget one of the biggest treasures that "AI" has given us.

I do hope Intel hasn't wasted too much of their efforts on riding this gimmick, but the harder they focus on things like this, the more I suspect there is little significant to talk about.
What's next, they're going to talk about who has the most "design wins"?


But wait a minute,
The T800 was running a MOS 6502…
and even Bender was running a MOS 6502…
so Skynet is already here?
(run around in panic)
(sarcasm)

 

[FoulOnWhite]

I'm rooting for Intel to pull a C2D again, but it's not looking hopeful. Maybe my 12700k might be my last Intel setup.

 

[N/A]

Could this be a monolithic die unlike meteor lake.

 

[TumbleGeorge]

Every other company spouts bullshit about AI without delivering any products.

Oh, I don't think you're right. There are specific dimensions and it's already a lot of jobs that have been cut, a great many thousands. I don't know what the specific products that led to these cuts are called, but they are a fact.

 

[Wirko]

AI to me is just a buzzword until its an actual intelligence.

An advanced search engine is not intelligence, its a more complex algorithm. It is somewhere on the ladder towards a real kind of intelligence, and invites us to think about the ramifications and the actual definition of it - what IS intelligence, for example, when all information is already under our fingertips. I think true intelligence is about what you can actually do with information, and part of that 'product' is also directly how the product actually benefits us. There are upsides to our current form of 'AI'. But also many downsides. Its not even decided what weighs in more - weight being a very literal thing, as it is part of the key to machine learning: how you weigh each bit of information you feed a model. And then it becomes clear every single AI is still limited by it being a human construct. We're closing in on a paradox here.

We could go on all day, and tomorrow too, discussing what is real AI and what isn't. I'd say - just remember Arthur C. Clarke's third law. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.