5 months old SSD hot at 63º average and only 78% health

[TheLostSwede]

On Linux, access times are stored in the file system, but I would like to emphasize that this is a very small amount of data, even at scale, so I wouldn't even consider that a substantial source of disk writes.

Linux stores a lot more than that in the file system, hence why for example on a RPi, you want to consolidate all that crap in RAM first and then write a larger chunk of data to the micro SD card at a time. A lot of inexperienced people have fried their micro SD cards in a matter of months due to logging in Linux alone.

 

[dorsetknob]

I got it refurbished from Amazon sold by Amazon and I run the tests on arrival and said the SSD had like 500GB usage and 30 hours on. I can send it to repair for free or refund, that's no problem, my concern is if I can still use it without risk of damage of other components until Amazon reopens the repair service which is suspended until COVID passes

With the Deteriorating Health of that SSD i would recomend A RMA.

As for the repair service which is suspended until COVID passes

i would want a agreed post dated RMA.
Otherwise your Drive is going to fail and Amazon might refuse the RMA because you failed to notify them of the problem in a timely fashion.
I know Amazon are good with their response to RMA's and its not your/Amazon's fault re Covid 19 problems.
but i would still like a formal acknowledgment from Amazon that the Drive needs RMA as soon as convienent.

 

[qwak]

With the Deteriorating Health of that SSD i would recomend A RMA.
i would want a agreed post dated RMA.
Otherwise your Drive is going to fail and Amazon might refuse the RMA because you failed to notify them of the problem in a timely fashion.
I know Amazon are good with their response to RMA's and its not your/Amazon's fault re Covid 19 problems.
but i would still like a formal acknowledgment from Amazon that the Drive needs RMA as soon as convienent.

What is RMA?

I already notified Amazon and they acknowledged it.

 

[dorsetknob]

What is RMA?

A return merchandise authorization (RMA),

 

[qwak]

A return merchandise authorization (RMA),

THANK YOU!

 

[newtekie1]

Sorry, what? That's not how flash memory works, but ok...
Only P/E cycles would cause degradation of the physical flash.
Sure, read operation can, in a worst case scenario, cause data degradation or in extreme cases loss of data retention, but it doesn't affect the cells in the flash in a negative way until they're erased again.

Looks up how file systems track Access times. Every read, results in the access time being updated. So every read results in a write.

It isn't about how the flash memory works, it's about how the OS works.

On Linux, access times are stored in the file system, but I would like to emphasize that this is a very small amount of data, even at scale, so I wouldn't even consider that a substantial source of disk writes.

Windows is the same. It doesn't seem like a lot of data, but imagine a file is constantly being accessed so the access time is constantly being updates. Every access time update is a 4k sector write(assuming the default NTFS formatting was used on the drive).

This is why you'll still find a lot of people recommending against using an SSD for torrenting. It writes a shit-ton to the drive.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Looks up how file systems track Access times. Every read, results in the access time being updated. So every read results in a write.

It isn't about how the flash memory works, it's about how the OS works.

Yeah, no, that's simply not true either. A lot of this is managed and cached in RAM first, then there's a larger write when there's sufficient data to write. Even so, that's a tiny write and wouldn't cause any kind of significant wear on the flash.

Yes, this was an issue on something like Raspbian, as they screwed up and didn't cache to RAM by default, so in some worst case situations, you could end up killing a micro SD card in three months time. However, this is NOT the case with a decent OS and on top of that, the SSD controller can also handle tiny writes and cache them up in the local RAM to prevent excessive writes. In fact, modern SSD's do a lot of management of things like this that is transparent to the OS and it's all done to reduce writes in as much as possible. This is also why, if there's a power cut, you have a bigger chance of losing some data when you use an SSD vs. a traditional hard drive.

This is old, but still explains how a lot of this works.

https://www.snia.org/sites/default/files/SSSITECHNOTES_HowControllersMaximizeSSDLife.pdf

 

[Athlonite]

Lets see first off you have both uTorrent and eMule running constantly they both constantly read and write to disk even if you're not down/uploading anything
rule 1: If you're not using it turn it off
rule 2: use an HDD not an SSD for these programs

secondly your temps are high because uTorrent and eMule constantly access the SSD not allowing it to ever go into low power idle states allowing it to cool down
refer to rule 1

thirdly I doubt any SSD manufacturer would give you an RMA for a problem you've caused

 

[qwak]

Lets see first off you have both uTorrent and eMule running constantly they both constantly read and write to disk even if you're not down/uploading anything
rule 1: If you're not using it turn it off
rule 2: use an HDD not an SSD for these programs

secondly your temps are high because uTorrent and eMule constantly access the SSD not allowing it to ever go into low power idle states allowing it to cool down
refer to rule 1

thirdly I doubt any SSD manufacturer would give you an RMA for a problem you've caused

Said and done, thanks. Off from now on.

 

[qwak]

Hello.

So I finally sent it to Amazon due to the high temperature of the SSD (70º C average now) and they sent it back saying it was perfect within the normal range described by the maker SK hynix.

So I tried to replace the disk myself switching it with the Samsung SSD EV0 860 that I have in the old laptop which runs at 35º temperature and when I opened this laptop to do the exchange I realized that the SSD is not a normal one but a small one as in the first attached photo. I never saw a SSD like that. And in the space for the normal sized SSD there is a plug missing.

So, the temperature of this HP laptop is killing me. I have a thermometer over the keyboard and it's at 40º and my face really burns.

So, do you know if I can still install the Samsung EVO on this laptop (photos attached) and if the necessary plug or connection can be purchased somewhere?

 

[Chrispy_]

What you have there is called an M.2 SSD specifically one using the NVMe interface.

You can get SATA inteface drives for M.2 as well, but you do need to check the motherboard supports M.2 SATA before buying one to replace it - In a laptop that's not a guarantee.

As for the empty 2.5"drive bay on the other side of the battery, I don't think so. It looks like they've stripped the SATA connector off the board to save a few pennies:

Personally, given that it's a cheap plastic laptop and everything is working fine (despite the temperatures and health being lower than expected) I'd just make sure I had regular backups and keep using it normally.

If you really want to replace the SSD, search for PCI Express M.2 2280 SSDs, and if the shop you're searching on has the filter, look for TLC not QLC as it'll run a bit cooler and faster.

In Europe, the Crucial P1 or Intel 660P are aggresively-priced models at 500GB or 1TB capacities; I think they'll be ample for this laptop.
If you want TLC instead of QLC then the WD Blue SN550 and ADATA SX8200 Pro are usually good bets for 10-15% more money.

 

[qwak]

What you have there is called an M.2 SSD specifically one using the NVMe interface.

You can get SATA inteface drives for M.2 as well, but you do need to check the motherboard supports M.2 SATA before buying one to replace it - In a laptop that's not a guarantee.

As for the empty 2.5"drive bay on the other side of the battery, I don't think so. It looks like they've stripped the SATA connector off the board to save a few pennies:

View attachment 162763
Personally, given that it's a cheap plastic laptop and everything is working fine (despite the temperatures and health being lower than expected) I'd just make sure I had regular backups and keep using it normally.

If you really want to replace the SSD, search for PCI Express M.2 2280 SSDs, and if the shop you're searching on has the filter, look for TLC not QLC as it'll run a bit cooler and faster.

In Europe, the Crucial P1 or Intel 660P are aggresively-priced models at 500GB or 1TB capacities; I think they'll be ample for this laptop.
If you want TLC instead of QLC then the WD Blue SN550 and ADATA SX8200 Pro are usually good bets for 10-15% more money.

Many thanks @Chrispy_

Since I am a beginner, let's see if I understood right. There is no chance to install the EVO in that hole because the connector is not on sale or it's too expensive or complicated?

Thanks a lot!!

 

[Chrispy_]

You can't buy an adapter for that. You'd need to solder the connector on and even then there's no guarantee that the traces you solder it to are connected to power, or that the BIOS will even recognise that port when it's soldered on.

Either leave it alone or buy a new NVMe M.2 drive to replace it. I've already said that I'd just live with it myself but if the temps/health bother you then just replace it for peace of mind.

In my experience the WD Blue SN550 is a cool running and very affordable drive, and the 500GB model has been my go-to for budget builds in 2020. It ticks all the boxes:

• DRAM-less for lowest possible price, without being bad (many DRAM-less SSDs are awful, this one performs fine)
• TLC instead of QLC NAND, so....
  • faster sustained write speeds than QLC
  • higher lifetime endurance (the 'health' value you're so worried about)
  • less complexity, so a simpler/cheaper/cooler controller and lower power draw
• Single-sided M.2 2280, guaranteed to fit where some double-sided M.2 SSDs (like the SX8200 Pro) may not.
• 5 year warranty, when other super-bargain stuff is 3 years or less.

 

[qwak]

OK everything clear now, thanks a lot!

This one you mean https://shop.westerndigital.com/es-es/products/internal-drives/wd-blue-sn550-nvme-ssd#WDS250G2B0C

 

[Chrispy_]

Yeah, that one. It's a bit more expensive than it ought to be - I've typically seen the 500GB model for ~€75...

I see you're in Spain. Sabrent Rocket Q is probably your best 500GB option:

Sabrent Rocket Q 500 GB NVMe PCIe M.2 2280 Unidad de Estado sólido SSD Interna de Alto Rendimiento (SB-RKTQ-500): Amazon.es: Informática

Sabrent Rocket Q 500 GB NVMe PCIe M.2 2280 Unidad de Estado sólido SSD Interna de Alto Rendimiento (SB-RKTQ-500): Amazon.es: Informática

www.amazon.es

If you can't afford 500GB, then the Kingston A2000 is the best cheap 250GB option:

Kingston A2000 (SA2000M8/250G) SSD NVMe PCIe M.2 2280 250 GB : Amazon.es: Informática

Kingston A2000 (SA2000M8/250G) SSD NVMe PCIe M.2 2280 250 GB : Amazon.es: Informática

www.amazon.es

 

[qwak]

Yeah, that one. It's a bit more expensive than it ought to be - I've typically seen the 500GB model for ~€75...

I see you're in Spain. Sabrent Rocket Q is probably your best 500GB option:

Sabrent Rocket Q 500 GB NVMe PCIe M.2 2280 Unidad de Estado sólido SSD Interna de Alto Rendimiento (SB-RKTQ-500): Amazon.es: Informática

Sabrent Rocket Q 500 GB NVMe PCIe M.2 2280 Unidad de Estado sólido SSD Interna de Alto Rendimiento (SB-RKTQ-500): Amazon.es: Informática

www.amazon.es

If you can't afford 500GB, then the Kingston A2000 is the best cheap 250GB option:

Kingston A2000 (SA2000M8/250G) SSD NVMe PCIe M.2 2280 250 GB : Amazon.es: Informática

Kingston A2000 (SA2000M8/250G) SSD NVMe PCIe M.2 2280 250 GB : Amazon.es: Informática

www.amazon.es

Great. Since this one seems to degrade very fast I'll buy one of those when it dies or if just can't bear the heat. Actually I don't need more than 128 GB, all I use it for is movies and it's just unnecessary to store so many together, so it's not expensive at all. Pity that the EVO is brand new and I can't use it in this laptop. How can it be 35º colder? THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Chrispy_]

In other news, if you don't care too much about gaming performance too much, those 1st-gen Ryzens can be cooled down significantly with a piece of third-party software called Ryzen Controller:

Grab the windows installer from here:

Releases · Ryzen Controller Team / Ryzen Controller · GitLab

DEPRECATED: please use AATU instead: https://amdaputuningutility.com/ Unlock the true performance of your Ryzen Mobile Processor: https://www.ryzencontroller.com/...

gitlab.com

It's powerful software but you can also do harm if you change values without understanding what they do. To run it cooler, I suggest leaving everything unticked except the three boxes I've shown below.
Also the first time you do this, make a note of what values are in those boxes - those are the HP defaults for your laptop and it's not a terrible idea to create a preset called 'default' just so that you can refer to those values without having to uninstall/reinstall the software.

Anyway, sensible values for a plastic, single-fan 2500U are probably 65C, 15W TDP and 20W Boost.

APPLY it and then hit CREATE PRESET, then switch to the PRESETS tab, scroll down to the bottom and make sure your new preset is selected for all four scenarios in the Auto apply preset section:

(ignore the 18W 75C, that's just what I've called one of my presets)

Finally, switch over to the settings tab and tick the first three boxes:

If its still too hot, try 60C, 12W TDP and 16W boost. That's still pretty comfortable performance for general web-browsing and office work but I wouldn't try to game like that; After 5-10 minutes of boost your framerate will drop in half because 12W isn't enough to feed the CPU cores and graphics simultaneously. A 2500U ideally needs about 22W for gaming without throttling the graphics. At 15W framerates are halved, and at 12W it's probably just a slide show.

 

[qwak]

Wow thanks a lot, I'll try it following your instructions. The CPU temperature was always normal, around 45-50º, but Amazon returned it hotter, it's around 65-70º easily now. I don't know what they did but it is much higher temperature. The temperature in Spain is awful, 37º today, but still shouldn't be such a difference. Many thanks, I'll try that.

 

[mtcn77]

You are using the drive with split master boot record(in two partitions).
Ssd drives are different from hdd. You don't partition them, you don't even run a page file for maximum lifespan. The controller is possibly racing for rewrites for lack of space.
One big free partition is better than two %75 full ones.

 

[Caring1]

Or to save pennies and re-use the Samsung 860 SSD use an Optical Drive bay adapter.

 

[newtekie1]

Yeah, no, that's simply not true either. A lot of this is managed and cached in RAM first, then there's a larger write when there's sufficient data to write. Even so, that's a tiny write and wouldn't cause any kind of significant wear on the flash.

It might be cached, but the data is still eventually written to the drive, and pretty quickly at that. The file access times have to be updated on the drive, and that results in a write to the drive. It might be small, but when it is constantly happening, it adds up.

Oh, and just an update on my SSD that I run torrents from, it has been almost exactly 2 months since I made the post stating it had 53TB of writes to it. It's now right at 60TB of writes. So torrenting has resulted in ~6TB in just 2 months. And this is just a data drive, not the system drive in the computer. So, again, 10TB in 5 months running torrents is totally plausible.

 

[chaoshusky]

Damn, this is an old thread now.. But has the OP returned the drive? For one, here in the UK, prices have been crazy...but i've paid half that for a 1TB SSD that's brand new! I mean 256GB for 380 euros used? What were you thinking?! Temperature is the least of your concern.. Get your money back and get a brand new drive that isn't overpriced to all heck.. Wow.. Back when they were pricey my 500GB Evo boot SSD (970 Pro) was still cheaper! (it was £176 about..22 months ago? Still at 98% health and a ton of TBW left.. Plus the 1TB ADATA SX8200 Pro only cost me £146 and i've had that for about 18 months i think? That's still at 100% and nowhere near max TBW.. holy $hit..)

 

[newtekie1]

Damn, this is an old thread now.. But has the OP returned the drive?

Yes, that is what revived the thread. The drive was in a laptop the OP bought, he returned the entire laptop and told him there is nothing wrong with it.

I mean 256GB for 380 euros used? What were you thinking?!

That is what he paid for the laptop, not the SSD.

 

[chaoshusky]

Ohh, the one time in a while i don't read through everything! I don't know the specs, but probably better than my own laptop! Haha.. Damn.. I should probably go look, but i'm tinkering with a kettle (yep, a kettle.. 4 months old and defective (not mine)! That's 'Blaupunkt' for you..)

Edit: Okay, he was still ripped off HP, i quite like.. But my ASUS Transformer convertible tablet thing about keeps up i think, some i7 5500U and 840M GT (eww) but at least i have a 1080p screen! Got it kinda cheap and ended up with one of those optical drive converters for it, plus the external subwoofer accessory! Bang and Olufsen (Philips..) speakers.. 250GB and 480GB SSDs, both SATA.. Does its job though! Use it for mobile music playback so it tends to get rattled by lots of bass..can't really use a mechanical in that situation just a shame its ASUS, really! Haha xD

 

[Chrispy_]

Wow thanks a lot, I'll try it following your instructions. The CPU temperature was always normal, around 45-50º, but Amazon returned it hotter, it's around 65-70º easily now. I don't know what they did but it is much higher temperature. The temperature in Spain is awful, 37º today, but still shouldn't be such a difference. Many thanks, I'll try that.

Ouch, If your room is 37ºC then you have my condolences, but that might explain the high temps:

My Ryzen 2700U is about 10ºC over ambient when idle, 35ºC over ambient at 12W, and about 50ºC over ambient at 18W. It's not the same model of CPU or laptop cooler, so don't take those numbers too seriously, but it is still a 1st-gen Ryzen and it is still a single-fan laptop.

Or to save pennies and re-use the Samsung 860 SSD use an Optical Drive bay adapter.
View attachment 162791

I did initially suggest that; Great minds think alike....

But then I edited it out of my reply on a hunch, as I was wondering whether a laptop with folding RJ45 jack would have room for a DVD drive. it looks like OP's laptop model has a common motherboard used for different chassis and his particular variant is too slim to include an optical bay. To make matters worse, HP have filled in the void left behind by no optical drive with a plastic grid to stop the keyboard from flexing into the void behind the motherboard.

(couldn't find the exact teardown, but that's a screencap from an HP 15-db0039ns which is likely just a spec/colour variant of OP's HP 15-db0045ns model)