Metro Exodus Developer Discusses Boycott of the PC Platform for Sequels over Steam Review Bombing

[INSTG8R]

It is not more than that. Its a store. You're not buying a piece of the Epic Store, you're buying a game and the Store is the medium that feeds you it. Steam is just the same, except with a ton of junk built around it, of which the better half is filled with pretty useless clutter. That list @Patriot posted up there... it contains every Steam feature so that it can put lots of red boxes next to the other stores... but it lacks a crucial security item like 2FA. That alone speaks volumes. This is 10 year old temper tantrum level of argument. It is a lazy customer argument, it is a short-sighted customer argument.

How come we never saw this kind of noise about Origin, or Battlenet, or Uplay? The biggest shitstorm we saw was 'I need to DRM twice' when going through Steam and Uplay. No game boycotting, no lists like the one above... yet Origin and Uplay have been considerably worse for quite a long time. Oh, and last I checked, those stores are doing just fine.

I'm sorry mate, but the level of this discussion is an all-new low for PC gamers worldwide. This is the reality: people are too lazy to install another launcher, and the 4A dev quote hits the nail on the head - if people can't be bothered to take that effort, they're not really waiting for a Metro game. He gets it, and he lays out the consequence of a boycot for the PC platform. Again: he gets it. If the game doesn't run a profit on the PC, it won't go there again.

Ah but we did when all of those platforms were in their infancy and were as terrible as Epic is now and most of them are now on par with what steam has to offer. Security? Epic has been hacked twice. I made my my account on some Russian guy spoofing my email? Maybe you missed the he part about how Epic wants to create your friends list by asking for your Steam and Facebook Creds so it can mine them. This is not just about a “Store” I loathed installing Battlenet for Destiny 2 but again decent platform again repeat PLATFORM these are all more than just “Stores” so stop trying to minimize them as such. Only platform that’s actually worse than Epic’s is Bethesda again another one I had no interest installing for one game and well no need to mention the poor game in question at least I’ll be set up for Rage 2

 

[MicroUnC]

Most profit possible would be releasing it in multiple stores, not removing it from one store to another just because someone gave you money.
Consumers end getting fucked in the end by this move, so its normal to expect people to be mad about this.

Was it so hard to release it in GOG, Steam, Epic, etc at the same time? No.

Steam takes 35% from sales, epic takes 10%. Money issue

Could be wrong!

 

[Readlight]

these ps4 slow, expensive, exclusive games are also hack able. not the best people haw money.
Its one game against millions different minded people its normal to get negative review.
Sell it on not hack able sd card.

 

[Vayra86]

Ah but we did when all of those platforms were in their infancy and were as terrible as Epic is now and most of them are now on par with what steam has to offer. Security? Epic has been hacked twice. I made my my account on some Russian guy spoofing my email? Maybe you missed the he part about how Epic wants to create your friends list by asking for your Steam and Facebook Creds so it can mine them. This is not just about a “Store” I loathed installing Battlenet for Destiny 2 but again decent platform again repeat PLATFORM these are all more than just “Stores” so stop trying to minimize them as such. Only platform that’s actually worse than Epic’s is Bethesda again another one I had no interest installing for one game and well no need to mention the poor game in question at least I’ll be set up for Rage 2

I have an Epic account and I'm not seeing much out of the ordinary. Every website wants to connect your accounts, even games do this, so they can seed your friend list in-game. I'm also seeing functional 2FA which is the very first countermeasure you deploy against compromised security. The Facebook login is widely used and is bad everywhere, Epic is no exception. If this is all surprisingly new to you, I"m not sure what you've been doing the last ten years.

Your email getting spoofed is not Epic's fault. Just the other day news came out about 2.2 BILLION account detail combinations being out there in the wild and it likely includes yours - it did include mine. That is another issue entirely.

Platform? No. The games offer the online communities, not the platform, regardless of how much they try to make it so. A community is tied to a game, not to a storefront like Steam. There is no 'Steam community' consisting of 95% of PC gamers worldwide that have nothing in common. Its just a big dataset, nothing more. The games determine what people you see online at what games. With or without Steam. Devs can make those frameworks themselves and they can do it as good or better.

Calling a store a platform is simply wrong. A platform immediately implies a degree of exclusivity which is exactly what people are up in arms about. Steam is as much a 'self imposed exclusivity' as a release on Epic alone. Its an irony you and everyone else completely fail to see.

 

[nemesis.ie]

IMO, the issue here is the exclusive, I hate those on ALL platforms.

What should be happening here is that the game goes on Epic's site AND on Steam the buyer can then decide, if Epic charge the dev less and they can put it on the Epic store for less, folks can vote with their wallet if they want it cheaper or if they choose to use steam, they pay more but the dev could make nearly the same money.

Simple. This messing around and "exclusivity" BS is what is wrong here and does not deserve to be supported. IMO of course.

 

[INSTG8R]

I have an Epic account and I'm not seeing much out of the ordinary. Every website wants to connect your accounts, even games do this, so they can seed your friend list in-game. I'm also seeing functional 2FA which is the very first countermeasure you deploy against compromised security. The Facebook login is widely used and is bad everywhere, Epic is no exception.

Your email getting spoofed is not Epic's fault. Just the other day news came out about 2.2 BILLION account detail combinations being out there in the wild and it likely includes yours - it did include mine. That is another issue entirely.

Platform? No. The games offer the online communities, not the platform, regardless of how much they try to make it so. A community is tied to a game, not to a storefront like Steam. There is no 'Steam community' consisting of 95% of PC gamers worldwide. Its just a big dataset, nothing more. The games determine what people you see online at what games. With or without Steam. Devs can make those frameworks themselves and they can do it as good or better.

But they don’t and you know it they all use the features of the platform. Friends list, joining games, VOIP, etc ALL the platform not the game. The fact that every Steam game has a Community Hub(Forum) is actually great along with Guides and in Steams case all accessible in said game. Used RE2s a few times earlier this evening when I got stuck I just Alt+Tabbed and clicked the guides. Do you even pay any attention to the features these platforms you seem to make every effort to minimize to what Epic currently is?

 

[birdie]

Perhaps emotions took over, when he then effectively threatened that the Metro series would not come to the PC platform again, and be a console exclusive, should this behavior continue and also if PC gamers in turn decide to not buy Metro Exodus as a result of the move from Steam to the Epic Games Store.

As a native Russian speaker I have to disagree with this loose interpretation of his words.

Here's his full post (© 2019 Artem S. Tashkinov):

I've watched the shit storm that gave me contradicting impressions. On the one hand, Steam withdrawal was dubious, no one before us has done this so abruptly (as far as I know). This is new and and it could have caused resentment. And also this move makes it necessary to install the Epic launcher, so it could have inconvenienced certain gamers, and caused resentment.

On the other hand a reaction of the certain category of players ("torrents" only and likewise [he meant those who pirate games]) is hardly adequate. I've got the impression that people didn't really want to play and they have been waiting for a reason to pour out bile. It turns out that we (the developers) have toiled over for years trying to create something extraordinary but a certain category of players believes that our work isn't worth two minutes of installing a new game launcher. Naturally, it's their life and right, but why do they care about Metro at all? Obviously, they are not interested. I can only say that they've never been our players, they are not interested in our work, and as a result, for example, I'm not interested in their opinion. What's the point of me (and not only me) listening to their opinion?

But! Let's take a deeper look at the situation. Someone says that having shit on Metro Exodus and other games of the series has made the world a better place and put the greedy developers in their place. For that, I can only say that, at the worst scenario if all [PC] players boycott the game, then future games, if they get released at all, certainly won't be for PC. Will it be for the better or worse, is up to you. Personally, I will be sorry for devoted fans. But it won't change my appreciation of the work done by me, my friends and co-workers. I'm absolutely certain that almost everyone who is smearing us on the internet is not capable of the tiniest part of the work already done, and I hope, is yet to be done. Which means they are totally unaware of what they are talking about.

One extra thing. Despite the fact that during development I've finished every level of the game countless times, I still love playing Metro. I've completely finished previous games of the series several times and right now when we are putting the finishing touches to the game I'm going to finish it once more. For me it's already a tradition when I finish the game right before its release. It allows to evaluate the work we've done. What am I talking about? I remember the words of Prof [some nickname presumably - no idea who this person is] which I've heard straight from him several times and also on the Internet: you must create a game for yourself, so that first and most you like it yourself. And only now I'm starting to fully understand that - no smartass will make me doubt the work we've done. And there always will be the dissatisfied.

 

[Kamgusta]

They have been bashed just because they received a bribe by EPIC to provide a temporal exclusive on a niche PC platform/store nobody uses/wants to use?
And for pulling out their game from the biggest store in the PC market, after it has been sit there on preorder for 5 months (so abusing all the Steam advertising, without paying it back)?
How strange.
So now they want to publish on consoles only?
Dear 4A Games, fu.. you, err, I mean, good luck to you.
I/we don't care at all.

 

[Vayra86]

As a native Russian speaker I have to disagree with this loose interpretation of his words.

Here's his full post (© 2019 Artem S. Tashkinov):

Yeah exactly. My Dutch google translation also wasn't quite as fiery as the title on TPU wants to suggest. The guy simply predicts what will happen after a boycot on PC. And he's right. We only stand to lose here, Tencent is sure as hell not going to cave in at this point. At the same time I think for the general consumer this is positive, because it deals a punishing blow to Steam's near-monopoly.

But they don’t and you know it they all use the features of the platform. Friends list, joining games, VOIP, etc ALL the platform not the game. The fact that every Steam game has a Community Hub(Forum) is actually great along with Guides and in Steams case all accessible in said game. Used RE2s a few times earlier this evening when I got stuck I just Alt+Tabbed and clicked the guides. Do you even pay any attention to the features these platforms you seem to make every effort to minimize to what Epic currently is?

They don't and you know why? Because they pay 30% revenue for that already to Lord Gaben. We're going in circles here. When I get stuck I alt+tab and type something in Google... never fails. If I want to access a friends list/community beyond a single game, I use Discord. I mean, its not rocket science and its being done all over the place, much more so than Steam's 'community features'. Because Steams' features are still Steam's alone. Discord and the like are not limited like that.

The community hubs. Yes. Other games have forums and guess what, most developers STILL use their own channels for the real announcements, and most importantly, for the real feedback loops. Countless devs never even bother visiting community hubs, they just exist as the cesspool that they usually are. The quality of those comments and topics... is very low, more often than not. You go ahead and compare a random Steam community hub with the developers' own Forum space. It is miles apart. And you find the REAL information, with megathreads about builds, mechanics, and groups of players, on the developers' own forums. Not on Steam. Steam doesn't even offer a real forum functionality, all it has is very archaic 'post your comment' and 'start a topic'. Even reloading a page from an opened forum topic kicks you right back to the Community Hub, losing what you were reading altogether. Its utterly crap all over. You even get to deal with a 2000 character limit. WTF!? Its 2019, Gaben.

So yes, I minimize it because it is simply irrelevant, there are other, much better alternatives around and they have been there since day one.

 

[INSTG8R]

Yeah exactly. My Dutch google translation also wasn't quite as fiery as the title on TPU wants to suggest. The guy simply predicts what will happen after a boycot on PC. And he's right. We only stand to lose here, Tencent is sure as hell not going to cave in at this point. At the same time I think for the general consumer this is positive, because it deals a punishing blow to Steam's near-monopoly.



They don't and you know why? Because they pay 30% revenue for that already to Lord Gaben. We're going in circles here. When I get stuck I alt+tab and type something in Google... never fails. If I want to access a friends list/community beyond a single game, I use Discord. I mean, its not rocket science and its being done all over the place, much more so than Steam's 'community features'. Because Steams' features are still Steam's alone. Discord and the like are not limited like that.

The community hubs. Yes. Other games have forums and guess what, most developers STILL use their own channels for the real announcements, and most importantly, for the real feedback loops. Countless devs never even bother visiting community hubs, they just exist as the cesspool that they usually are. The quality of those comments and topics... is very low, more often than not.

So yes, I minimize it because it is simply irrelevant, there are other, much better alternatives around and they have been there since day one.

This isn’t just Steam it’s just the most feature rich of them all. Origin and Uplay have the same basic social functionality. Yeah we all use Discord and we used Teamspeak before that but you still use the platforms for partying up/playing together. Just because you don’t choose to use them or acknowledge their actual functionality doesn’t diminish the fact they exist and are used.

 

[Vayra86]

This isn’t just Steam it’s just the most feature rich of them all. Origin and Uplay have the same basic social functionality. Yeah we all use Discord and we used Teamspeak before that but you still use the platforms for partying up/playing together. Just because you don’t choose to use them or acknowledge their actual functionality doesn’t diminish the fact they exist and are used.

That's all fine but it has literally no impact on your gaming experience if a platform doesn't because as you and I say, people can and do use other methods to get in touch. Besides, Metro is convincingly and overwhelmingly a single player experience. I fail to see how this is relevant in defending a boycot.

This is what they call 'grasping at straws'.

 

[INSTG8R]

That's all fine but it has literally no impact on your gaming experience if a platform doesn't because as you and I say, people can and do use other methods to get in touch. Besides, Metro is convincingly and overwhelmingly a single player experience. I fail to see how this is relevant in defending a boycot.

This is what they call 'grasping at straws'.

Well my issue isn’t with the game but their choice of platform I think that should be pretty obvious. They literally went from the best to the absolute worst. It will do absolutely nothing for thier sales regardless of any controversy.

 

[Vayra86]

I doubt you are getting it: this whole situation is about the power of the consumer. If we can't wrestle 4A into selling on steam, then it only shows that their priorities are not with their customers. Even THQ are trying to distance themselves from Koch and 4A controversy, but 4A apparently will defend their publisher to their last breath.

We don't disagree, its about the power of the consumer - but he needs to get his priorities straight. You don't play Steam. You play games.

 

[Kamgusta]

We don't disagree, its about the power of the consumer - but he needs to get his priorities straight. You don't play Steam. You play games.

Take note of this "priority": STEAM is dated 2003. That means 16 years in business without big problems. I still can play "Dungeon Siege" from 2002. And I still will be able to do that in 2030.
What about all those new launchers? In 10 years from now, will that "Epic Launcher" (1 year old) still be here with my Exodus copy?
I don't care about launchers. I care about my digital properties.
I trust STEAM because it is the biggest and more trustworthy player in the field and so I want all my purchases to be there.
Simple as that.

 

[rtwjunkie]

Yeah exactly. My Dutch google translation also wasn't quite as fiery as the title on TPU wants to suggest. The guy simply predicts what will happen after a boycot on PC. And he's right. We only stand to lose here, Tencent is sure as hell not going to cave in at this point. At the same time I think for the general consumer this is positive, because it deals a punishing blow to Steam's near-monopoly.



They don't and you know why? Because they pay 30% revenue for that already to Lord Gaben. We're going in circles here. When I get stuck I alt+tab and type something in Google... never fails. If I want to access a friends list/community beyond a single game, I use Discord. I mean, its not rocket science and its being done all over the place, much more so than Steam's 'community features'. Because Steams' features are still Steam's alone. Discord and the like are not limited like that.

The community hubs. Yes. Other games have forums and guess what, most developers STILL use their own channels for the real announcements, and most importantly, for the real feedback loops. Countless devs never even bother visiting community hubs, they just exist as the cesspool that they usually are. The quality of those comments and topics... is very low, more often than not. You go ahead and compare a random Steam community hub with the developers' own Forum space. It is miles apart. And you find the REAL information, with megathreads about builds, mechanics, and groups of players, on the developers' own forums. Not on Steam. Steam doesn't even offer a real forum functionality, all it has is very archaic 'post your comment' and 'start a topic'. Even reloading a page from an opened forum topic kicks you right back to the Community Hub, losing what you were reading altogether. Its utterly crap all over. You even get to deal with a 2000 character limit. WTF!? Its 2019, Gaben.

So yes, I minimize it because it is simply irrelevant, there are other, much better alternatives around and they have been there since day one.

The most recent example of this I saw was Mutant Year Zero. The community hub completely doesnt exist on Steam. It redirects you to their own site where all the news and forums are. They are well-attended too.

 

[INSTG8R]

We don't disagree, its about the power of the consumer - but he needs to get his priorities straight. You don't play Steam. You play games.

And 80% of the games I play are on Steam, almost 500. Have almost 60 on Origin and around 40 on Uplay and currently 1 on Bethesda, 1 on Battlenet and 0 on Epic despite grabbing their freebies.

 

[Ravenmaster]

Well this is a good lesson. "How to not sell any copies of your game." Good job Metro devs!

 

[ab3e]

Let me tell you kids a story:

The year is approximately 2105, after the great economic collapse and the 1 year global resource war society as we knew it was gone. The vast cities once the beating heart of our grand nation now just decomposing steel and concrete carcases are a small reminder of the perfect lives we had. In one of these crumbling cities inside a skyscraper somewhere on the 30th floor in a dark room a fire is visible. A small family sits and tries to keep worm in this never-ending atomic winter.

After moments of silence that seemed like an eternity one of the children speaks.

Great grandpa please tell us how it was before the war, before monsters roamed the cities, before people enslaved people and food and water were plenty.

The old man looked at the small dirty child and said.

Back in those civilized days there were even more horrific things happening.

More horrific than the sand worm that captured Timmy and slowly digested him?

More horrific than grandma cutting her own arm so we can have something to eat? said another scared and malnourished child.

How about I tell you kids how I survived the launch of the Epic game store and the exclusivity of Metro Exodus. Can you imagine a digital distribution platform with no cloud saves, no forums, no groups, no family sharing, no user reviews nothing!

After a moment of silence all children speak unanimously like guided by the winds of fate and ask one simple question: What’s a cloud save grandpa?

The old man looked at the children, his eyes full of anger and hate, they were eyes of toxicity and entitlement, eyes that could pierce and devour a child’s innocent soul and with those eyes he said:
Shut up and eat your mom!!!

 

[Ferrum Master]

Simply idiots.

It is somehow bribed, the whole move. I smell corruption. It looks like scripted. The dev post itself looks darn stupid, the end part especially.

Just put the darn thing on steam, tax more, let it be cheaper on epic or whatever store you put it. Any reasonable CEO would have done it. Everyone would have justice, a mature decision.

This? It looks like old habits.

 

[ZoneDymo]

Jeez what a bunch of drama.... SJW's out in full force

 

[Vayra86]

Take note of this "priority": STEAM is dated 2003. That means 16 years in business without big problems. I still can play "Dungeon Siege" from 2002. And I still will be able to do that in 2030.
What about all those new launchers? In 10 years from now, will that "Epic Launcher" (1 year old) still be here with my Exodus copy?
I don't care about launchers. I care about my digital properties.
I trust STEAM because it is the biggest and more trustworthy player in the field and so I want all my purchases to be there.
Simple as that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_Games

Hmmm

 

[Totally]

If you were a dev you would want to make the most profit possible to insure you will still have a studio for new games.

To jump on a new platform offered backed by a powerhouse in the industry is only logical.

That isn't logical it all here. To ensure the studio survives at the end of the day they need to maximize sales by making sure the have as much exposure to potential customers as possible and that means being on every storefront, physical or digital, that they are able to be present at. Shunning the largest already established digital store which I'm guessing has access to 90%+ of PC gamers in favor of one that is yet unproven and current exposure is the population of those who play fortnite. That is illogical, what would be logical would be to release both games on both platforms.

 

[TheOne]

We also don’t know, as one of our members asserted here, that any Steam keys sold must go through the Epic launcher.

The only thing I've heard about keys is that physical pre-orders will ship with Epic keys.

https://www.pcgamer.com/metro-exodu...c-store-but-steam-preorders-will-be-honoured/

 

[lexluthermiester]

Dear Devs,

Your behavior is bordering on the childish. You're creating a great deal of bad press for yourselves.

First, you pull out of a previously committed to distribution channel people were expecting to use for one few want to use. Second, the public reacts with the only method of protest available to them, reviews of existing games released by you. Third, you respond with a threat to boycott the PC platform.

The public will respond to this, likely with a boycott of your products on all platforms. What will you do then? Blame everyone else? Or will you hold yourself accountable for your own silly and short-sighted choices?

 

[rtwjunkie]

Second, the public reacts with the only method of protest available to them, reviews of existing games released by you

No, the public who are just as childish do that, because reviews of previous games should be reviews of the games. Mature customers have a method of registering unhappiness, which is to not buy the new games.

Please don’t condone infantile actions like review bombing. There really is no excuse for them to do that.

For the record, if it was a member of the dev team, he was not threatening. He laid out facts. If people do not buy a pc version of a game, then future investment in the PC platform is not likely. That’s just business.