Are all software/scheduling issues with e-cores fixed on Intel 12th to 14th Gen - Willing to give hybrid ach a chance now

[Wolverine2349]

I have heard so many say e-cores are good and help in games yet I also read reports that they cause stuttering in some games like Star Citizen Elden Ring and even Cyberpunk??

Well I will give a pass for Star Citizen as it is a bad buggy beta game, but 2 year old Elden Ring and what Cyberpunk which is supposed to be good with them? That gives me pause as well?

Are the issues popping up just FUD and anti e-core propaganda ( I will admit my own fears and skepticism and preference for more P cores has had me biased against e-cores a lot but I am willing to give them a chance now) and easy work arounds or are they real?

And you you effectively use WIN10 with 12-14th Gen or is WIN11 actually required to not have those issues. Cause I hate WIN11 interface and hearing about the more embedded telemetry harder to turn off than on WIN10.

I would prefer more than 8 P cores on a single ring/CCD, but none exists, so have thought of getting a 14700K or 14900K/138900K and disabling HT and just using e-cores for extra threads and seeing how it goes. Will things work smoother in games than just a good 8 core 16 thread CPU with HT on from either intel or AMD Zen4 and Raptor Cove or newer for today's most threaded games and tomorrow's as well? Or not really?

Yes AMD has Zen 5 coming and supposedly better IPC, but still the dual CCD severe latency issues and Intel is much better in that regard even with e-cores it seems as thread director 2 likely works very well and all e-cores and P cores are on the same ring bus unlike AMD's extra P cores.

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
MS fixing scheduling hell they can't even think to offer 11 the same start menu options 10 has lol

Hyper threading it does often help simplify core usage disabling it especially when you have e threads which are usually the problem or windows using them seeing gaming is not a background activity hehe

There could also be other issues causing stuttering memory......

 

[Wolverine2349]

Hi,
MS fixing scheduling hell they can't even think to offer 11 the same start menu options 10 has lol

Hyper threading it does often help simplify core usage disabling it especially when you have e threads which are usually the problem or windows using them seeing gaming is not a background activity hehe

There could also be other issues causing stuttering memory......

I keep hearing e-cores or otherwise P cores on single die more than 8 with HT/SMT off would be best gaming solution. We have one option that being Intel with the Gracemont e-cores on same die, but no option for more than 8 P core son a node as AMD has max of 8 per CCD. Last non-hybrid arch with more than 8 same type of cores on single die was Comet Lake Intel 10850K/10900K.

Maybe thread director works well. Just have heard lots of mixed reports with e0-cores though most benchmarks do seem to favor them on so maybe games are using more than 8 cores successfully?? Or something else??

 

[FoulOnWhite]

I have had a 12700k since nov 21, i have never disabled the ecores and have used a multitude of games, and ryujinx emulator. I have never seen no stuttering or any detrimental effect of having them enabled. I see a lot of people saying how bad they are, but some do not even have Intel setups, so how do they know apart from what they have read. Nothing is as good as first hand experience with them. I am on win 11 and have seen no problem with it.
Upto you if you want to try it, but imo go for it.

 

[Wolverine2349]

I have had a 12700k since nov 21, i have never disabled the ecores and have used a multitude of games, and ryujinx emulator. I have never seen no stuttering or any detrimental effect of having them enabled. I see a lot of people saying how bad they are, but some do not even have Intel setups, so how do they know apart from what they have read. Nothing is as good as first hand experience with them. I am on win 11 and have seen no problem with it.
Upto you if you want to try it, but imo go for it.

Do you also have HT on or have that turned off?

Have you ever used WIN10 with it or just WIN11?

 

[ir_cow]

While I never had issues with cyberpunk using Intel 12/13/14th. I did notice system response went up switchinng to Windows 11. It was very noticable. Benchmarks didn't really change though.

 

[FoulOnWhite]

Do you also have HT on or have that turned off?

Have you ever used WIN10 with it or just WIN11?

I have used both win 10 and 11, no problems. HT on, have never tried it off.

 

[Bobaganoosh]

I went to Windows 11 at 12th gen (which I jumped into a bit late) then went to 13th gen because of issues I had with a specific 12900k. My 13900k has been great. The only issue I've seen in any application has been 3DMark Time Spy's CPU test. It only loads like 2 cores and often ends up on e-cores for me. There's a task handler program you can install and sort of manually tune things if you need to, but I think 99% of the time it isn't necessary at all. I'm at the point where I'd be more than willing to consider AMD for my next build, but for now I have really enjoyed my 13900k with Per-core OC. That said, I am not someone who cares much about power usage and I have an extremely over-built cooling solution. The main point of the question being the hybrid design though, I was skeptical before purchasing and I sometimes wish I just had like 10-12 P-cores and 8 e-cores...but I think the primary thought from Intel is that almost no games really use more than 8 cores effectively and when it comes to multi-core workloads, it's more efficient to just throw a bunch of e-cores at it. They are quite effective in multi-core workloads...so it does work work out well this way (and their power usage by the P-cores is already out of control on current nodes lol).

 

[Solaris17]

I had a lot better luck with 11. System just seemed smoother. I know there were hitching and scheduling issues with 10 not sure if they were fixed. Never shut off HT or my e-cores.

 

[Wolverine2349]

I went to Windows 11 at 12th gen (which I jumped into a bit late) then went to 13th gen because of issues I had with a specific 12900k. My 13900k has been great. The only issue I've seen in any application has been 3DMark Time Spy's CPU test. It only loads like 2 cores and often ends up on e-cores for me. There's a task handler program you can install and sort of manually tune things if you need to, but I think 99% of the time it isn't necessary at all. I'm at the point where I'd be more than willing to consider AMD for my next build, but for now I have really enjoyed my 13900k with Per-core OC. That said, I am not someone who cares much about power usage and I have an extremely over-built cooling solution. The main point of the question being the hybrid design though, I was skeptical before purchasing and I sometimes wish I just had like 10-12 P-cores and 8 e-cores...but I think the primary thought from Intel is that almost no games really use more than 8 cores effectively and when it comes to multi-core workloads, it's more efficient to just throw a bunch of e-cores at it. They are quite effective in multi-core workloads...so it does work work out well this way (and their power usage by the P-cores is already out of control on current nodes lol).

Well AMD does have 12 core and even 16 core options though not on one die. What is your opinion on that when you say you sometimes wish you had a 10-12 P core CPU and only 8 e-cores. Do you mean on one die or is dual CCDs and the cross latency penalty ok with you?

 

[FoulOnWhite]

Well AMD does have 12 core and even 16 core options though not on one die. What is your opinion on that when you say you sometimes wish you had a 10-12 P core CPU and only 8 e-cores. Do you mean on one die or is dual CCDs and the cross latency penalty ok with you?

No personal experience with cross CCD latency, but have read it is maybe the only major problem with AMD's setup.

 

[Dr. Dro]

The earlier bugs with DRM such as Denuvo only really affected Alder Lake. Raptor Lake processors are generally immune.

 

[ThrashZone]

I have used both win 10 and 11, no problems. HT on, have never tried it off.

Hi,
Surprisingly HT off does run better on older chips as well
Speculation is evil hehe

 

[FoulOnWhite]

Hi,
Surprisingly HT off does run better on older chips as well
Speculation is evil hehe

I might have to give it a try after all it is only a 8 core chip (apart from the E-cores) Imo they should market CPU's as real core/with HT, so for p cores only, mine would be 8 core/HT as it is not a 16 core chip( not counting the E-cores)

Seems Intel is dropping the HT setup, should be interesting to see how it effects performance/tweaking

 

[Wolverine2349]

I might have to give it a try after all it is only a 8 core chip (apart from the E-cores) Imo they should market CPU's as real core/with HT, so for p cores only, mine would be 8 core/HT as it is not a 16 core chip( not counting the E-cores)

Seems Intel is dropping the HT setup, should be interesting to see how it effects performance/tweaking

Well technically its more than an 8 core chip, but only 8 strong cores on current arch. That si why they call it 8+ whatever the weaker Gracepoint cores is probably more accurate.

Some say e-cores are not real cores. Well; they are actually real cores, just not as strong as the P cores and a heterogenous arch. Isn't AMD doing the same thing with Zen 4C and Zen 5C cores?

And I have heard some say if e-cores were actual real the system should be able to boot with them and no P cores but you have to have at least 1 P core enabled. Though is that because e-cores lack i instructions to run on their own, or just an artificial limitation from Intel and motherboard makers for the platform.

The Intel N CPUs have only Gracemont cores and they run on their own so it tells me probably a hard lock that 1 P core has to be active to boot system on Intel 12th to 14th Gen?

 

[ThrashZone]

I might have to give it a try after all it is only a 8 core chip (apart from the E-cores) Imo they should market CPU's as real core/with HT, so for p cores only, mine would be 8 core/HT as it is not a 16 core chip( not counting the E-cores)

Seems Intel is dropping the HT setup, should be interesting to see how it effects performance/tweaking

Hi,
Yeah HT has always been a security risk and security updates have lessened performance in everything really but most noticeable is gaming seeing there is online content to deal with where as local rendering doesn't for example.

8 core without HT is plenty your system memory might even benefit as well seeing it speculates as well with HT.

 

[GerKNG]

if you don't plan to increase your cinebench score significantly. disabling the E-Cores is the first thing you do with a modern Intel CPU.
the scheduler works well enough to not go in your way. but having the E-Cores enabled is enough to decrease gaming performance and massively increasing power consumption with no benefit besides render times.

 

[Dragam1337]

I have had a 12700k since nov 21, i have never disabled the ecores and have used a multitude of games, and ryujinx emulator. I have never seen no stuttering or any detrimental effect of having them enabled. I see a lot of people saying how bad they are, but some do not even have Intel setups, so how do they know apart from what they have read. Nothing is as good as first hand experience with them. I am on win 11 and have seen no problem with it.
Upto you if you want to try it, but imo go for it.

Have you tested them on / off in games, or just had them enabled the entire time, and been like "this is fine" ?

I am guessing the latter, and that you don't play star citizen. I helped a friend of mine who had terrible stuttering with his 13700k in star citizen - he had tried everything, nothing helped. Then we disabled the e-cores in the bios, and the stuttering was gone.

 

[ir_cow]

@GerKNG do you not have any programs running in the background while gaming? I guess if your OS is stripped down just for gaming, the P-cores is really all you need.

Im guessing the latter, and that you don't play star citizen. I helped a friend of mine who had terrible stuttering with his 13700k in star citizen - he had tried everything, nothing helped. Then we disabled the e-cores in the bios, and the stuttering was gone.

Star citizen is a joke. What they at 500 million funded and it's still in alpha . I'm waiting for the truth to come out it was intentional scam.

 

[GerKNG]

do you not have any programs running in the background while gaming?

i have a lot of software running in the background most of the time. right now a 1440p video on the second monitor, Steam, Tarkov Launcher, MusicBee, HWInfo, Razer Synapse, MSI Afterburner, Veracrypt, Flameshot and the Driver GUI. Disabling the e-cores still imediately improves performance in basically every game.
From my experience and the plethora of tests and benchmarks over the years, E-Cores don't do anything for Multitasking except of keeping slow software and hardware schedulers busy swapping stuff constantly. A single P-Core extra as an "E-Core" would already be better for handling background tasks over 16 extra Cinebench accelerators.

 

[ir_cow]

Makes a noticable difference for my 12700K daily system. E-cores are nice. Could just be all those programs are poorly programmed.

 

[FoulOnWhite]

Have you tested them on / off in games, or just had them enabled the entire time, and been like "this is fine" ?

I am guessing the latter, and that you don't play star citizen. I helped a friend of mine who had terrible stuttering with his 13700k in star citizen - he had tried everything, nothing helped. Then we disabled the e-cores in the bios, and the stuttering was gone.

What difference does it make. People say they screw your gaming up if enabled, mine always have been and every game i have tried has been fine, even triple A like dying light 2 and CB2077. Star citizen lol, as if i would give that joker any of my cash, he has already duped/brainwashed millions of dollars out of the weak minded.

@GerKNG do you not have any programs running in the background while gaming? I guess if your OS is stripped down just for gaming, the P-cores is really all you need.


Star citizen is a joke. What they at 500 million funded and it's still in alpha . I'm waiting for the truth to come out it was intentional scam.

They would never find him, 500 million would get you a nice new face with millions to live on on your private island stuffed with nice honeys.

 

[rethcirE]

I bounce between my Windows 10/8750H laptop (6C/12T) and Windows 11/12900K desktop (8PC/16PT & 8EC/8ET) frequently. I have retail versions of the OS on both, nothing custom. Simply Chris Titus Windows Utility Tool solutions on both, basically mirrored.

I even play all the same games on both machines. The laptop has a RTX 2070 115W and the desktop has a RTX 4070 200W. The difference there is pretty incredible, with the 4070 being phenomenally power efficient.

All I can say is the gaming experience across 6-7 games on both machines is always in favor of the desktop; despite what this thread theorizes as potential issues with Windows 11 and P/E cores with 12th Gen Intel. It is butter smooth. The laptop can occasionally take a hit mostly due to temps and GPU limits in newer games. But as far as frame-time and stuttering goes the systems are identical performers and in feel.

I have benchmarked comparing E-cores On/Off and as others state the scores for CPU tasks pretty much across the board differ greatly. I have overclocked both P and E cores since Day 1 and only disabled them to attempt a better P-core overclock. What gains I saw with P-core after that seemed negligible; purely a benchmark move. The system seemed less snappy with the E-cores disabled in my opinion.

I run in background while gaming; MSi Afterburner, GPU-Z, Throttlestop, ParkControl, and the game client on both machines. The laptop has Clevo Control Center, the desktop has LianLi Connect. Otherwise identical, again. On the laptop these are run off P-cores, on the desktop they are likely largely on the E-cores. I could not tell any difference while gaming. I'm not sure how you even would aside from extremely granular testing...

 

[fevgatos]

Makes a noticable difference for my 12700K daily system. E-cores are nice. Could just be all those programs are poorly programmed.

I'm running stripped butt naked windows and ecores still help substantially. Most exhaustive testing I've done is in warzone. Disabling ecores drops 1% lows from 190-200 to 120. Cyberpunk Spiderman and TLOU take a substantial hit with ecores off even in averages.

Have you tested them on / off in games, or just had them enabled the entire time, and been like "this is fine" ?

I am guessing the latter, and that you don't play star citizen. I helped a friend of mine who had terrible stuttering with his 13700k in star citizen - he had tried everything, nothing helped. Then we disabled the e-cores in the bios, and the stuttering was gone.

If one out of hundreds of games stutters due to ecores, isn't more likely that the game is the issue? Just saying....

You yourself admitted 2 days ago that ecores are the reason a 3 gen old 12900k is as fast or faster than your 7800x 3d in cyberpunk. So clearly ecores help in gaming.

 

[Dr. Dro]

I'd say gaming wise you probably get more results out of disabling the P-cores' HT functionality than any of the E-core clusters, but that's my view on it