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Are UPS lithium LiFePO4 batteries finally as cheap as lead-acid?

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Yeah but 7ah isn't any better than lead acid. Those might even be worse... You can even get 9Ah in lead acid form, so...

EDIT: of course, they will last longer, so maybe worth it situationally.
 
10Ah versions exist for the LiFePO4
 
So...answer me the million dollar question. Who actually recycles Lithium iron phosphate batteries?

I ask this, because I've seen plenty of green recycling sources. I've also seen that most of them funnel into one huge collection point where somebody industrial does the real recycling at a surprisingly high cost...because litium+atmospheric water = fire.

That said, lead acid is pretty dummy proof. Discharge battery, drain acid into storage container. Filter particulates from fluid, measure pH, add sulfuric acid concentrate as necessary. Crack open case, remove plates, wash with water until all acid removed. Visual inspection, remelt into new plate if necessary. Take new plastic box, add plates, add acid, seal, and trickle charge to verify that each cell is good. If you have a good stable plastic is can be washed and recycled, if not it gets shredded into confetti and used as something else (or at worst trashed).


Not an easy place, but about 85-95% reusable as opposed to the real process of lithium processing. Impressive that the surplus Chinese EV cells (RE: CATL) are really cheap...but it's only as trust worthy as you'd expect from a Chinese product. Seriously, those names look vaguely western, but all of the results are leading me back to China.
 
Next time I need a UPS battery, it won't be lead-acid.
 
10Ah versions exist for the LiFePO4
Yes, but then cost isn't going to be $22.00. That was my only point. You aren't buying the top of the line LiFEPO4's by any means, but still could be useful.
 
Next time I need a UPS battery, it won't be lead-acid.
If the prices are indeed that low, I will seriously be looking at Li-Ion too.

HOWEVER, one must make sure the physical dimensions match or they won't fit the battery compartment. That includes the terminals since most battery compartments don't even have extra space for adapters.

12V9AH for $30 with 10 year warranty sounds good.

So...answer me the million dollar question. Who actually recycles Lithium iron phosphate batteries?
Lots of places around here. BatteryPlus is one.
 
Yeah but 7ah isn't any better than lead acid. Those might even be worse... You can even get 9Ah in lead acid form, so...

EDIT: of course, they will last longer, so maybe worth it situationally.
All 7 of those Ah are usable. You can charge and discharge it quickly, too.

Drain a lead acid to below 30-40% and see what happens to it's lifetime, let alone voltage.
 
I'm not so sure about the discharge rate.

20A continuous, so 240W from each battery.

and only
10A continuous from the smaller battery

The cheaper ones
seem even less capable
"a robust continuous output discharge of up to 7A"
 
Last edited:
All 7 of those Ah are usable. You can charge and discharge it quickly, too.

Drain a lead acid to below 30-40% and see what happens to it's lifetime, let alone voltage.
Fair point.
 
I'm not so sure about the discharge rate.

20A continuous, so 240W from each battery.

and only
10A continuous from the smaller battery

The cheaper ones
seem even less capable
"a robust continuous output discharge of up to 7A"
Depends on how many batteries your UPS has. If its got 8, that's 1920w combined output. with 4 that's 960.

My PC tops out at maybe 500w if you're really pushing it so even if its underrated for the UPS it would be more than enough for me.

If you need more, you could get a bluetti power station and use it as a UPS. These things work great


All LiFePo4 batteries.
 
You are assuming batteries that can handle 20A current and that would be the rather expensive 10Ah Dakota

The cheaper ones are more around 7A current and so could be an issue.
 
Depends on how many batteries your UPS has. If its got 8, that's 1920w combined output. with 4 that's 960.
You are assuming batteries that can handle 20A current and that would be the rather expensive 10Ah Dakota
He's also assuming all 8 cells are strapped in parallel. You can't do that without specifying the specific UPS. Some use 1 cell for a single cell battery. Others use 2 cells. Others 4 cells to make up the battery. Some are strapped for 12V, others 24V.

I have an UPS here, for example, with 4 12V cells. 2 each are strapped in parallel to make two pairs. Then those pairs are strapped in series for a series parallel battery with an output of 24VDC. This is why I often suggest folks take photos of the strapping configuration of the old battery before disassembling.

Personally, I have never seen an UPS for SOHO use with 8 cells. I did used to maintain a whole air traffic control radio transmitter facility UPS with 48 cars batteries (plus 4 spares) strapped in series parallel for 48VDC output. What a PITA. Once a week we had to measure the specific gravity of every cell in each battery, and top off with distilled water if necessary That's 312 cells to test - all while wrapped in a big rubber apron, gloves, gas mask and goggles - in Phoenix in a battery room that was NOT air conditioned. :(

And all that UPS did was keep this transmitter site up and running for 2 minutes! Which was (fingers and toes crossed while holding our breath, pacing back and forth, biting fingernails) enough time for the backup generator to [hopefully!] fire up, stabilize output, then kick in.
 
I will stick to lead, less risks. but up to you if you want to higher the chance of a fire or not.
 
Not an easy place, but about 85-95% reusable as opposed to the real process of lithium processing. Impressive that the surplus Chinese EV cells (RE: CATL) are really cheap...but it's only as trust worthy as you'd expect from a Chinese product. Seriously, those names look vaguely western, but all of the results are leading me back to China.

China focused significantly on LiFePo4 chemistry and manufacturing. They pretty much are the only ones in the world who make LiFEPo4
 
I will stick to lead, less risks. but up to you if you want to higher the chance of a fire or not.

LiFePO4 is one of the safest lithium cells.
 
If the prices are indeed that low, I will seriously be looking at Li-Ion too.

HOWEVER, one must make sure the physical dimensions match or they won't fit the battery compartment. That includes the terminals since most battery compartments don't even have extra space for adapters.

12V9AH for $30 with 10 year warranty sounds good.


Lots of places around here. BatteryPlus is one.

I'm glad that you always can be counted on not to read.

Your local batteries plus does not recycle these batteries. They act as a collection point, which then pays to haul the batteries somewhere...which might then send them elsewhere, or sort them, or if things are really special they might actually inspect them. Remember that question about lithium being dangerous and requiring some laboratory like conditions to be extracted...or did you maybe not read that either?

Most Lithium in the US is trucked out westward...when it's stored in large depots until it can be sold to somebody who does the processing. Said processing is 100% dangerous.

Your average lead acid battery can be emptied, the lead could be remelted in a consumer grade furnace, and battery boxes can be bought online. What I'm saying there is not that environmental issues do not arise, but that making a "new" lead acid battery from recycling is pennies on the dollar as opposed to a thing that is barely profitable when highly subsidized by the government...and remains crazy dangerous.

China focused significantly on LiFePo4 chemistry and manufacturing. They pretty much are the only ones in the world who make LiFEPo4

No...cart before the horse. China invited Tesla, started force transfer of technology, and determined that their goal was to make Chinese manufacturers the "best" in the world of cars. The technology to make standard lithium ion batteries was too expensive, and required materials science tech that the Chinese could not steal...but they did have access to Lithium Iron Phosphate, a technology that was shed due to it performing worse than the standardized lithium ion battery tech...but miles ahead of other technologies in energy density. No protections, cheap manufacture, the Chinese government mandates its use by making it part of their list of critical expansions, which paves the way for huge grants, which make the production of products that sell under cost possible, and profitable, while you are getting huge government support to make things happen.

Once you've stolen the tech you need, and fabricated the industry and supply chain to support it, you're left with immense manufacturing capacity. That capacity drives the market cost down...cratering anyone from being able to improve processes because they cannot afford to invest in research, creating a plateau of tech at a cheap price, which wipes out the market for said tech for decades as it rebuilds stably after the huge number of producers is culled when the government grants disappear and the price war results in most producers dying because they are competing against people willing to sell at a profit loss just to have sales.

In short, better get these puppies now. In a not too distant future they'll be a big problem that "nobody saw coming." That's between their environmental impact and the sudden disappearance of the market support that comes with this model of operation.
 
I'm glad that you always can be counted on not to read.

Your local batteries plus does not recycle these batteries. They act as a collection point,
:( Oh come on! Can you be any more trollish or pedantic? No.

Does BatteryPlus, a store, often located in strip malls or next to other retail establishments actually do the breaking down of parts and recycle all the components themselves? No. Of course not. Nor more than Best Buy refurbishes my old refrigerator "on site" when they hauled it away when they delivered my new one. Nor does my mechanic actually do the recycling when he collects my used oil, used anti-freeze, used transmission fluids.

Does Battery Plus "accept" these (and nearly all types) of batteries for recycling to keep them out of landfills and our water supplies? Yes.

Was that the whole point of my comment? Yes. Of course it was.

Does my local trash collection service actually recycle the plastics, metals, cardboard and glass residents are required, by city ordinance, to put in our blue, green and brown bins? No. Of course not. They separate them in to categories then actual plastic, cardboard, metal and glass recycling companies come get them and [at least hopefully] properly recycle the recyclable, and properly dispose of the rest.

Did it boost your pathetic little self-esteem and ego enough by pointing out that tiny, petty distinction without a difference"? Did it make you feel all proud, important, triumphant and warm and fuzzy inside? I hope so. Otherwise, I'll pity you even more.

That said, instead of being so quick to accuse others of not reading, I suggest you actually read what BatteryPlus claims they do. I included a link. Did you bother to read it? They clearly say, "we recycle". So if you have problem with that, go whine and cry to them for false advertising or what ever.

In the meantime, I have 6 old SLA batteries, several CR2032s, and 2 CFL lamps I am taking to them tomorrow - for them to recycling.
 
Safer than lead acid ?.
My person opinion from what I have learned is, yes "IF" made to proper industry standards and not in some fly-by-night, back woods factory by what amounts to slave, often underaged labor.
 
Safer than lead acid ?.

Yes and more environmental friendly. There's really not much reason to use lead acid over LiFePO4 now that the latter is well priced.
 
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