Asus Prime H610M A, or Gigabyte B660M DS3H

[thelawnet]

Any thoughts? I have I5-12500 2 x 8GB DDR4-3200 CL16, 1 TB SN550 M.2, 8TB SATA. No dGPU. Maybe add later. 650W Gold modular power, 1080p 75Hz monitor. No peripherals yet, probably will use Logitech mouse + keyboard, certainly wireless (dongle or bluetooth).

Bitfenix Nova Mesh SE TG case (4x aRGB fans with controller)

Choices are:
Asus H610M Prime A - like $121 OR
Gigabyte B660M DS3H - like $151

Asus: leftside mosfet heatsink, no M.2 heatsink, M.2 3x4 and 3x2. GbE though I have 50 mbit internet, so I'm not really sure I'll get close to Gb for anything lol. 4 x USB 2, and 2x USB 3.2 Gen 2, plus 1 USB 3.2 header, for the case, which is enough. PCIE 4.0x16, which is sufficient also. 2 Fan headers and 2 aRGB headers.

Gigabyte: similar power/mos cooling, but adds an M.2 heatsink, and M2s both at 4x4. USB setup: 2 x USB 2, 3x USB 3.2 gen 1, 1 USBC 3.2 gen 2 v1. 4 RAM slots (which I probably will never use)

Is the Gigabyte worth the extra $30?

(note: i live in Asia, limited choices, these are the two I'm considering)

 

[tabascosauz]

I'd lean towards the Asus, but the potential problem with being an H610 board is that you should not be able to overclock the memory at all. So say, any common 3600 kit will not be able to hit its default XMP multiplier and be forced to run at 3200. Which, if your kit is just a 3200 XMP, is not a problem.

Regardless of whether DDR4 or DDR5, if you're wanting best performance generally 2DIMM boards are optimal on both performance and compatibility - so Asus again. Hell, if it's super budget boards, I'd trust them even more so to design a problem-free 2DIMM before a 4DIMM topology. Gigabyte seemed to have some early memory issues on its DDR4-equipped Z690 boards, not sure if resolved.

As for the two onboard NICs, they are not very forthcoming, but:

• Asus should be some variation of Intel's i211/217, which is one of the most reliable NICs in the past decade and very hard to screw up.
• Gigabyte's looks to be some variant of Realtek RTL8125, which is for the most part equivalent in speed and as reliable as Intel 1Gbe.......................as long as it's not the RTL8125BG "Dragon" that Gigabyte likes to put on some of its boards.

Hard to tell, but as Gigabyte isn't advertising "Gaming NIC" on the product page, I'd assume it's the regular RTL8125 which is fine.

I like the dual 4.0 x4 M2 slots on the Gigabyte, but you have to ask yourself whether you'll be buying expensive high-end PCIe 4.0 SSDs that can actually make use of it. Anything below high end 4.0 drives, 3.0 x4 will be more than fine, and 3.0 x2 still works perfectly speed-wise for the average user.

If you want an intuitive and functional BIOS, Asus comes through a whole lot more often than Gigabyte.

 

[thelawnet]

Well now I ordered the Asus, but all the people advertising it don't actually have it. So I might see if I can import a different card or whatever, not really clear....

They offered me the Prime H610M K or the GIgabyte H610m as substitutes, but they both lack aARGB, so I'm not convinced.

Unfortunately none of the 'wifi' boards seem to offer a saving compared to buying the Intel wifi 6 card separately.

There is the Asus Prime B660M K also, but it's worse than the H610M A, in that it only has a DSUB (shudder) and an HDMI out, whereas I have a monitor and a 1080p projector so not very ideal.

 

[tabascosauz]

Yeah...probably not the B660M-K, the Ks are slotted a tier lower than the As amongst the Prime boards. It really is a lot worse - no 3.2gen2 USB at all, and Realtek 1Gbe is a no-go. If it's Intel then it should be 1Gbe (very good), if it's Realtek then it should be 2.5Gbe (good), otherwise it's pretty horrid.

How's the Gigabyte board for stock? It really doesn't look like that bad of a board, I just wouldn't take it over the Asus if my intent was to save money. But if the Asus isn't available, you really shouldn't have much problems with the Gigabyte. The early DDR4 issues were all rather high speed kits I think.

 

[Deleted member 24505]

Gigabyte imo.

 

[Solid State Soul ( SSS )]

Is the Gigabyte worth the extra $30?

yes

 

[Watermelon5]

I would recommend the Gigabyte board, seems to be slightly higher end and worth the money

 

[thelawnet]

Yeah...probably not the B660M-K, the Ks are slotted a tier lower than the As amongst the Prime boards. It really is a lot worse - no 3.2gen2 USB at all, and Realtek 1Gbe is a no-go. If it's Intel then it should be 1Gbe (very good), if it's Realtek then it should be 2.5Gbe (good), otherwise it's pretty horrid.

How's the Gigabyte board for stock? It really doesn't look like that bad of a board, I just wouldn't take it over the Asus if my intent was to save money. But if the Asus isn't available, you really shouldn't have much problems with the Gigabyte. The early DDR4 issues were all rather high speed kits I think.

Yeah I'll think I'll order it tomorrow, once they send my cash back for the non-existent H610M A board. I just messaged Asrock and they told me their B660 boards are likely to be 2-3 weeks more, so I guess I'll make do with what's in stock for now.

 

[thelawnet]

I just received the B660M DS3H, unfortunately they cheaped out by using the same circuit board as the B660M DS3H AX including a blurry photo on their website clearly labelled M.2 WIFI,and the same io shield with aerial slots, but not actually including the M.2 socket to save 30 cents.

I'll see if I can send this back and just get an Asus or something, cheap bastards.

Asrock don't do this; I don't know if this practice is specific to Gigabyte.

Gigabyte even reuse the same exact shitty board for the Z690M DS3h, so that board has 'M.2 wifi' printed on it, even though that board doesnt exist in wifi version. https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/Z690M-DS3H-DDR4-rev-10

 

[thelawnet]

I've sent it back.

We have some new choices now.

H610M-HDV/M.2

ASRock H610M-HDV/M.2

Supports 14th, 13th & 12th Gen Intel Core™ Processors (LGA1700); 6 Phase Power Design; 2 x DDR4 DIMMs, Supports Dual Channel, up to 3200; 1 PCIe 4.0 x16, 2 PCIe 3.0 x1, 1 M.2 Key-E for WiFi; Graphics Output Options: HDMI, DisplayPort, D-Sub; Realtek ALC887/897 7.1 CH HD Audio Codec; 4 SATA3, 1...

www.asrock.com

This one is only around $94, and it has reasonable features, i.e. 1 x M.2 SSD, M.2 wifi slot, Intel Gb LAN, HDMI, DP, a few (4) USB ports.

It's probably adequate? The only thing that's slightly disappointing is no aRGB or RGB support, whereas I bought a case with aRGB fans.

But I'm not totally clear if motherboard aRGB is actually useful in anyway or not. IDK.

I'm told the B660M Pro RS (formally Pro 4) will be here next week. Price not known I assume about $140. And the B660M Steel Legend which is a slightly better and more expensive, including PCIE 5.0

There is also the MSI B660M-A Wifi edition, which is about $195 with the wifi included and is obviously a better board than the Pro RS, so there is that.

The Asrock H610M is quite tempting really.

 

[JrRacinFan]

Do you have the AsRock Z690M available?

EDIT: Ixnay on that. What about Asus Prime Z690M Plus?

 

[GorbazTheDragon]

Unless you intend to put an i9 in there down the road I'd honestly stick with the cheap stuff... It mostly just comes down to what features exactly you want on the board as far as I/O.

Is it necessary the wifi slot is an m.2 form factor? Why not a pcie card?

Asrock don't do this; I don't know if this practice is specific to Gigabyte.

I've seen it from all the manufacturers here and there.

 

[tabascosauz]

I've sent it back.

We have some new choices now.

H610M-HDV/M.2

ASRock H610M-HDV/M.2

Supports 14th, 13th & 12th Gen Intel Core™ Processors (LGA1700); 6 Phase Power Design; 2 x DDR4 DIMMs, Supports Dual Channel, up to 3200; 1 PCIe 4.0 x16, 2 PCIe 3.0 x1, 1 M.2 Key-E for WiFi; Graphics Output Options: HDMI, DisplayPort, D-Sub; Realtek ALC887/897 7.1 CH HD Audio Codec; 4 SATA3, 1...

www.asrock.com

This one is only around $94, and it has reasonable features, i.e. 1 x M.2 SSD, M.2 wifi slot, Intel Gb LAN, HDMI, DP, a few (4) USB ports.

It's probably adequate? The only thing that's slightly disappointing is no aRGB or RGB support, whereas I bought a case with aRGB fans.

But I'm not totally clear if motherboard aRGB is actually useful in anyway or not. IDK.

I'm told the B660M Pro RS (formally Pro 4) will be here next week. Price not known I assume about $140. And the B660M Steel Legend which is a slightly better and more expensive, including PCIE 5.0

There is also the MSI B660M-A Wifi edition, which is about $195 with the wifi included and is obviously a better board than the Pro RS, so there is that.

The Asrock H610M is quite tempting really.

For future reference, the M.2 Wifi text you're seeing is just the silkscreening on the PCB indicating where specific parts are meant to be soldered. It'll be there whether it has a functional slot there or not. It's certainly not a practice unique to Gigabyte.

ASRock has a habit of saving a buck putting in an empty Wifi slot with/without the antenna holes in its higher end boards where competitors just have functional wifi instead. Also Asrock has been the king of PCB recycling for generations haha. But it works out well for budget boards as long as they've left you the antenna cutouts.

But honestly, seeing the layout, most people would rather just buy a 802.11ac/ax PCIe x1 card and plop it in one of those two bottom slots, instead of going to the hassle of sourcing a card and manually wiring up the antennas.

As for the completely unheatsinked VRMs, expect an i5 to run a little warm at full PL2, from what I'm seeing on the web for ADL+hyper budget boards. But it should still never be of concern (>90C).

 

[thelawnet]

But honestly, seeing the layout, most people would rather just buy a 802.11ac/ax PCIe x1 card and plop it in one of those two bottom slots, instead of going to the hassle of sourcing a card and manually wiring up the antennas.

well the issue was i checked the price of an m.2 ax201 (like $15), and was expecting that.

when i checked pcie cards, which are basically ax200 (the version without the pch tie) with an adaptor then it was more like $50, so it seemed dumb for me to do that when i could just have an msi b660m-a wifi, a better board, for the same money.

there were other cheaperoptions like usb dongles but they seemed like a really crappy lowgrade solution on a new PC.

i sent Asrock a message to confirm the price of their b660m boards but I'm probably just going to get the h610m hdv/m.2 as it seems adequate, and cheap.

i looked into the aRGB stuff, and I didnt really find a good explanation anywhere about what motherboard aRGB support is useful for.

basically i assume you install their app, and then you can like select different modes or something from Windows. apparently my Bitfenix argb controller links to a button on the top of the case, and that cycled through the modes. So it doesn't really seem very essential, as I gather that for example with an RGB keyboard they can sync to music and stuff, but if we're talking about fans rotating then that's a bit more difficult

(i actually have an RGB bike wheel light which does patterns like skull or whatever, but that has lots of LEDs and a slow speed of rotation, so.)

 

[tabascosauz]

well the issue was i checked the price of an m.2 ax201 (like $15), and was expecting that.

when i checked pcie cards, which are basically ax200 (the version without the pch tie) with an adaptor then it was more like $50, so it seemed dumb for me to do that when i could just have an msi b660m-a wifi, a better board, for the same money.

there were other cheaperoptions like usb dongles but they seemed like a really crappy lowgrade solution on a new PC.

i sent Asrock a message to confirm the price of their b660m boards but I'm probably just going to get the h610m hdv/m.2 as it seems adequate, and cheap.

i looked into the aRGB stuff, and I didnt really find a good explanation anywhere about what motherboard aRGB support is useful for.

basically i assume you install their app, and then you can like select different modes or something from Windows. apparently my Bitfenix argb controller links to a button on the top of the case, and that cycled through the modes. So it doesn't really seem very essential, as I gather that for example with an RGB keyboard they can sync to music and stuff, but if we're talking about fans rotating then that's a bit more difficult

(i actually have an RGB bike wheel light which does patterns like skull or whatever, but that has lots of LEDs and a slow speed of rotation, so.)

Not a RGB expert, but OpenRGB is a pretty good solution if you don't want to use crappy board vendor RGB software, should have aRGB support. Pretty slim and not a resource hog, and works with most RGB thingies. If there are still some brands/products unsupported you can read about the exceptions on the github(?); G.skill RAM is probably one that you're still forced to use their first party software for, OpenRGB and other solutions sometimes lose their minds and forget how to RGB with G.skill.

 

[Taraquin]

As for ram overclocking, you will probably not get any more than 3400-3600 on a B660 since SA-voltage is locked to below 1v with locked CPUs. If you plan on running xmp just buy the H610-board that has the connectivity you need

 

[thelawnet]

Not a RGB expert, but OpenRGB is a pretty good solution if you don't want to use crappy board vendor RGB software, should have aRGB support. Pretty slim and not a resource hog, and works with most RGB thingies. If there are still some brands/products unsupported you can read about the exceptions on the github(?); G.skill RAM is probably one that you're still forced to use their first party software for, OpenRGB and other solutions sometimes lose their minds and forget how to RGB with G.skill.

Yes, but I guess you still need an aRGB motherboard to control it all.....

Here are some motherboard shots:

This is the H610m-HDV/M.2 ($95), which is identical to the B660M apart from the black mark above the PCIE x16 slot on the B660M has a second M2 installed

Most of the other boards are pretty similar with the M2 wifi slot placement the thing is however there is no routing for the aerial because it's not sold in wifi variant. For Asrock only the top Z690 boards have wifi

So it seems you have to check between:

* is there an M2 wifi slot
* where is it?
* is the IO shield designed for it?
* how will you route the aerial?

So on the Gigabyte boards the M.2 slot is in a sensible place, the io shield is ready for it, but they just didn't install it on the board.

For Asrock, it's on the board but the io shield lacks aerial holes.

I suspect Asus' boards with M.2 wifi slots are a bit better (if you don't want to have to use a slot on your case).

 

[GorbazTheDragon]

I have yet to see a board with an unpopulated wifi slot that has the rear IO holes for the aerial. You'd probably be best off finding a PCIe bracket to route them through, at which point, again, I don't see the point in focusing on an m.2 wifi card.

 

[thelawnet]

I have yet to see a board with an unpopulated wifi slot that has the rear IO holes for the aerial. You'd probably be best off finding a PCIe bracket to route them through, at which point, again, I don't see the point in focusing on an m.2 wifi card.

Biostar does this on almost all of their boards.

 

[GorbazTheDragon]

Biostar does this on almost all of their boards.

Huh, neat, but that would mean using a Biostar board

 

[eidairaman1]

Neither, AsRock 660

 

[thelawnet]

Neither, AsRock 660

Yeah I'm going to get the B660(M) Pro RS, finally.

The ATX version is $10 more.

I checked the manual and the differences between B660 and B660M seem to be:

* second PCIE x1 slot
* third M.2
* there is support to flash the BIOS without CPU
* you can configure the 1.8V CPU voltage as well as the 1.05V, not sure why you'd want to but anyway.
* there is a slightly bigger heatsink on the PCH.

 

[Taraquin]

Yeah I'm going to get the B660(M) Pro RS, finally.

The ATX version is $10 more.

I checked the manual and the differences between B660 and B660M seem to be:

* second PCIE x1 slot
* third M.2
* there is support to flash the BIOS without CPU
* you can configure the 1.8V CPU voltage as well as the 1.05V, not sure why you'd want to but anyway.
* there is a slightly bigger heatsink on the PCH.

B660 Pro RS seem to have serious throttling issues:

if you do some rendering it seems there is a 85W limit applied after some time. If you only game/do light tasks you probably won't notice. Using a 12600 it was around 15-20% slower multicore vs Asus B660 tuf due to this.

 

[thelawnet]

B660 Pro RS seem to have serious throttling issues:

if you do some rendering it seems there is a 85W limit applied after some time. If you only game/do light tasks you probably won't notice. Using a 12600 it was around 15-20% slower multicore vs Asus B660 tuf due to this.

That seems to be a BIOS issue that will be fixed

According to that, whereas the 12600 has a hard limit of 117W, it seems that in that all-core test then it actually only needed 85W.

The boar throttled to PL1, 65W, after Asrock's Tau value of about 45s.

For the 12700K, which has 190W and 125W limits

then the board clearly has no issue delivering a stable 125W, which is more than sufficient for a locked i5. However.... the issue was it never exceeded that.

So it looks like a relatively simple BIOS issue.

 

[Taraquin]

That seems to be a BIOS issue that will be fixed

View attachment 236877


According to that, whereas the 12600 has a hard limit of 117W, it seems that in that all-core test then it actually only needed 85W.

The boar throttled to PL1, 65W, after Asrock's Tau value of about 45s.

For the 12700K, which has 190W and 125W limits

View attachment 236878

then the board clearly has no issue delivering a stable 125W, which is more than sufficient for a locked i5. However.... the issue was it never exceeded that.

So it looks like a relatively simple BIOS issue.

Yeah, it can be, but question is if Asrock will fix it. Looking at the B560\Z590 lineup they had questionable powerlimits on several board that were never fixed.