Bitcoin price suddenly surges to 3-year high

[R0H1T]

So there never was a ban in the first place and banks were going against the law.

They weren't going against the law, basically RBI & the govt were beating around the bush ~ they wanted to ban Crypto & then apparently they didn't! Banks can't do flip flops like that.
Didn't I say multiple times that if you can make money off of it (tax or other means) this will not be banned? Guess what that's true everywhere in the world, including China

 

[R-T-B]

And this is why cryptocoin needs heavy-handed regulations.

I mean the same could be said of the stock market. Have you seen the GME shenanigans?

 

[lexluthermiester]

I mean the same could be said of the stock market. Have you seen the GME shenanigans?

Fair point. However, the stock market is already heavily regulated. Cryptocoin needs join those ranks if not to be banned.

 

[R-T-B]

Fair point. However, the stock market is already heavily regulated. Cryptocoin needs join those ranks if not to be banned.

I know that, my point was in some ways even the stock market regulations are useless though because of no or selective enforcement. Such things need to be globally applied or not at all.

 

[ZenZimZaliben]

I mean the same could be said of the stock market. Have you seen the GME shenanigans?

And many other stocks and it is awesome, in fact I think it is one of the most amazing achievements the internet has facilitated. It's a collective effort that takes the masses and pits them against multi-billion dollar investment firms. It brings to light exactly what these investment firms have been doing for decades, except now instead of 1 company with 200 Billion it's 10m+ individuals with $2k each and look at how they/we can control the market.

 

[R-T-B]

And many other stocks and it is awesome, in fact I think it is one of the most amazing achievements the internet has facilitated. It's a collective effort that takes the masses and pits them against multi-billion dollar investment firms. It brings to light exactly what these investment firms have been doing for decades, except now instead of 1 company with 200 Billion it's 10m+ individuals with $2k each and look at how they/we can control the market.

I agree, I was speaking more to the Robinhood shutdown of trading and attempts by big money to shut the whole thing down. There were a lot of senators on both sides of the isle crying foul on that but nothing came of it in the end.

It spoke to the extreme hypocrisy and willingness to cheat to maintain the status quo that is present in the market.

To me it highlights one area in which crypto could help fix things.

 

[trog100]

And this is why cryptocoin needs heavy-handed regulations.

all markets are manipulated.. buyer beware.. plus of course you dont want it regulated you want it strangled to death.. he he

anyways bitcoin is very close to 39K and eth is close to 2900.. pretty much as i predicted.. it will hover around 40/42K for a while with some small dips but it wont go down far..

trog

ps.. just a comment about market manipulations.. the gold market is manipulated its said there are over 100 paper claims for each ounce of real gold.. the same can be said for the silver market..

the US stock markets are manipulated by the US government with money printing.. this goes to the rich who use it to buy back their own shares and artificially inflate the price..

the whole lot is crooked.. those who just pick out crypto manipulations are doing so for their own reasons..

 

[Vya Domus]

I mean the same could be said of the stock market. Have you seen the GME shenanigans?

Crypto exchanges regularly halt withdrawals/trading on certain coins for "maintenance" when it just so happens that there is a lot of volume being moved or ATHs and crashes happen.

Everything is manipulated, free markets are a pipedream.

 

[RandallFlagg]

I know that, my point was in some ways even the stock market regulations are useless though because of no or selective enforcement. Such things need to be globally applied or not at all.

It's not just the Robinhood meme stocks. I got very bearish on the markets a bit over a month ago. Simple reason, trying to find something worthwhile to buy, couldn't find hardly anything. Even funds - I'm the type that looks at what funds hold - way too many holding Apple and Tesla or other greatly over valued stocks. Tesla for example, was trading at a PE multiple of 1000. At that multiple, there's really no difference between Tesla stock, and Bitcoin.

Now I get that high growth companies can trade at high PE multiples, but Tesla is not a newborn, and 1000 was just stupid. Neither is Apple and it was at a PE of like 80. Keep in mind the S&P PE is over 20, the historical mean is 15.5, and bear market lows are 5. Yes earnings can go up, but they can also go down. Apple is nothing like Tesla in the sense that they make big $$, have little debt, and lots of cash. Nevertheless, the stock is priced at a premium.

A lot of these stocks in my estimation, can lose 50% of their value in a heartbeat. Even safe stalwarts like JNJ and KO trading at 30X earnings - earnings unlikely to grow much if at all post covid.

The signs are all there. All of this crap is nothing but bubbles blown up by easy money from central banks. Every asset class from gold to oil to lumber to housing to stocks to crypto, all bubbled up.

And now, this is small money, but it's just the beginning of what must happen if our currency is to survive.

The Federal Reserve Is Going to Sell Its Corporate Bond Portfolio. What It Means.

While the central bank's $13.8 billion portfolio of bonds and ETFs is relatively small, it does mark a shift away from pandemic relief efforts.

finance.yahoo.com

 

[LFaWolf]

AAPL PE is 28 at the moment, not even close to 80. 28 is low for a cash cow like AAPL, especially with an Apple Car coming in the next few years. I don't know why you would think AAPL will lose 50% of its value in a few years.

 

[RandallFlagg]

AAPL PE is 28 at the moment, not even close to 80. 28 is low for a cash cow like AAPL, especially with an Apple Car coming in the next few years. I don't know why you would think AAPL will lose 50% of its value in a few years.

Yes, they beat earnings, now fwd earnings estimates show ~28. It is overvalued by almost any measure, but people call it a deal...

I've heard this stuff before, back in 1999 and 2000, and people kept repeating it until ~2001. Then they got silent. A couple years later they started saying it was obvious and anyone who looked would have known...

It's not different this time. This is bubble shit. In 2-3 years people will be saying it was obvious.

Because you know what? It is obvious. It's herd mentality though, that's why we get bubbles in the first place.

 

[LFaWolf]

Yes, they beat earnings, now fwd earnings estimates show ~28. It is overvalued by almost any measure, but people call it a deal...

I am curious, by what measure do you say a 28 PE ratios is overvalued?

 

[R-T-B]

Crypto exchanges regularly halt withdrawals/trading on certain coins for "maintenance"

But you can still send the currency during that, just can't convert it to fiat.

Which makes it sound like a fiat problem.

 

[RandallFlagg]

I am curious, by what measure do you say a 28 PE ratios is overvalued?

History. 28 PE requires a 10% sustained growth rate. The entire NASDAQ 100 shows a PE of 27.3 right now.

Case-Shiller has charts of 20 year annualized returns when someone bought into stocks at different market "CAPE"'s, for different periods and different markets. I have seen similar historical charts for normal PE.

Bottom line though, for people buying into a market with a PE greater than 20 they are going to be lucky to get zero returns over then next 15-20 years. CAPE is slightly different but it is the same concept.

The case-shiller CAPE right now is 36.9

Here's what you can expect - looks like negative 1% annualized for the next 15 years. That's if you don't panic and sell at the bottom :

 

[LFaWolf]

History. 28 PE requires a 10% sustained growth rate. The entire NASDAQ 100 shows a PE of 27.3 right now.

Case-Shiller has charts of 20 year annualized returns when someone bought into stocks at different market "CAPE"'s, for different periods and different markets. I have seen similar historical charts for normal PE.

Bottom line though, for people buying into a market with a PE greater than 20 they are going to be lucky to get zero returns over then next 15-20 years. CAPE is slightly different but it is the same concept.

Probably getting off-toipc now but from what I can tell, a 10% growth for AAPL is still within reached (and given its size, quite amazing) - https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/AAPL/apple/revenue

A bit overpriced, but better than the general market. Still trying to figure out a good growth stock to buy that is not way overvalued.

 

[RandallFlagg]

Probably getting off-toipc now but from what I can tell, a 10% growth for AAPL is still within reached (and given its size, quite amazing) - https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/AAPL/apple/revenue

A bit overpriced, but better than the general market. Still trying to figure out a good growth stock to buy that is not way overvalued.

View attachment 202725

Look in that 5y column. The only reason AAPL has a 28 PE right now and not 60+ is because they had a bang up year last year, everyone sitting at home buying new iphones and ipads, that's in the YoY column. If you look at normal years, AAPL grows but at something more like 5%. Think about 5% with 4.2% inflation. They could probably, IMO, justify a low 20s PE. But that means the stock needs to be more like $90 not $125.

But I'm not into growth stocks. I like CEFs with a good track record and consistent long term management, and diversified funds with conservative holdings. Right now, there aren't many of those around.

I think there will be plenty of cheap stocks in 1-2 years. Plenty.

 

[yotano211]

AAPL PE is 28 at the moment, not even close to 80. 28 is low for a cash cow like AAPL, especially with an Apple Car coming in the next few years. I don't know why you would think AAPL will lose 50% of its value in a few years.

I like mastercard and Visa. I am really big on those 2. Got in from the IPO.

Look in that 5y column. The only reason AAPL has a 28 PE right now and not 60+ is because they had a bang up year last year, everyone sitting at home buying new iphones and ipads, that's in the YoY column. If you look at normal years, AAPL grows but at something more like 5%. Think about 5% with 4.2% inflation. They could probably, IMO, justify a low 20s PE. But that means the stock needs to be more like $90 not $125.

But I'm not into growth stocks. I like CEFs with a good track record and consistent long term management, and diversified funds with conservative holdings. Right now, there aren't many of those around.

I think there will be plenty of cheap stocks in 1-2 years. Plenty.

Look into mastercard and Visa, MA and V.
People are using less and less paper money and more plastic. Its not a growth stock, its a long term hold stocks.

 

[LFaWolf]

I like mastercard and Visa. I am really big on those 2. Got in from the IPO.

Ha, me too! Got both during the IPO. I bet the house on V during IPO. It was down during the financial crisis, but has rebounded nicely since. At the moment I am too heavy on these two already. Need to diversify some more.

 

[yotano211]

Ha, me too! Got both during the IPO. I bet the house on V during IPO. It was down during the financial crisis, but has rebounded nicely since. At the moment I am too heavy on these two already. Need to diversify some more.

Same here, my portfolio is about 35% into these 2. Kinda high.

What other stocks are you liking right now or for the long term future.

 

[LFaWolf]

Same here, my portfolio is about 35% into these 2. Kinda high.

What other stocks are you liking right now or for the long term future.

Took it to PM so we don’t derail the thread.

 

[Outback Bronze]

Looks like the first country to make BTC legal tender might be happening:

El Salvador looks to become the world’s first country to adopt bitcoin as legal tender (msn.com)

 

[Chomiq]

Looks like the first country to make BTC legal tender might be happening:

El Salvador looks to become the world’s first country to adopt bitcoin as legal tender (msn.com)

That's their president:

'nuff said.

 

[64K]

You will know when the crash is about to happen. When it does then almost everyone will be talking crypto up. Later the panic selling will ensue.

 

[trog100]

That's their president:
View attachment 202944
'nuff said.

at least he aint suffering from senile dementia.. he he he..

but the coiners will see good things and the no coiners will see bad things..

trog

 

[freeagent]

Coiners..

And no coiners

lovely jubbly