DPTF Error in Event Viewer when using ThrottleStop

[logiku]

Hello,

I have been using ThrottleStop for a while now with no issues. All of a sudden I started to get issues with my laptop becoming unresponsive. I say all of a sudden, but usually there is a cause. I am just struggling to figure it out.

I have checked the Event Viewer and see three DPTF Error's:

ESIF(8.4.10501.6067) TYPE: ERROR MODULE: DPTF TIME 16507 ms

DPTF Build Version: 8.4.10501.6067
DPTF Build Date: Feb 16 2018 13:31:38
Source File: ..\..\..\..\Sources\Policies\ConfigTdpPolicy\ConfigTdpPolicy.cpp @ line 354
Executing Function: ConfigTdpPolicy::synchronizeConfigTdpPlatformSettings
Message: ConfigTdp not supported.
Policy: ConfigTDP Policy [0]

ESIF(8.4.10501.6067) TYPE: ERROR MODULE: DPTF TIME 16508 ms

DPTF Build Version: 8.4.10501.6067
DPTF Build Date: Feb 16 2018 13:31:38
Source File: ..\..\..\..\Sources\Policies\ConfigTdpPolicy\ConfigTdpPolicy.cpp @ line 167
Executing Function: ConfigTdpPolicy:nBindDomain
Message: ConfigTdp not supported.
Participant: TCPU [6]
Domain: PKG [0]
Policy: ConfigTDP Policy [0]

ESIF(8.4.10501.6067) TYPE: ERROR MODULE: DPTF TIME 24373 ms

DPTF Build Version: 8.4.10501.6067
DPTF Build Date: Feb 16 2018 13:31:38
Source File: ..\..\..\..\Sources\Policies\ConfigTdpPolicy\ConfigTdpPolicy.cpp @ line 311
Executing Function: ConfigTdpPolicy:nOperatingSystemConfigTdpLevelChanged
Message: ConfigTdp not supported.
Participant: TCPU [6]
Domain: PKG [0]
Policy: ConfigTDP Policy [0]

I am not familiar with the DPTF module. Doing some research it looks like it's Intel's Dynamic Platform and Thermal Framework. I have an XPS 15 9570 and according to Dell's website the driver for Intel Dynamic Platform and Thermal Framework hasn't been updated since July 5, 2018. So I don't think that driver is the issue as it hasn't changed. The only other thing I see is the BIOS was updated on January 25, 2021 to version 1.18.1. Could the BIOS update disable ConfigTdp support? Is there a setting in the BIOS I can check or would downgrading be the only option?

Note that I have run my laptop for the past couple of days without issue with ThrottleStop disabled. I just ran ThrottleStop and immediately received these errors so that's why I am coming here as it looks to be related. If you need more information from me let know.

My system:
Dell XPS 15 9570
Intel Core i9-8950HK
Windows 10 Home 20H2 19042.804

 

[unclewebb]

@logiku - Try using the latest version of ThrottleStop. Post a screenshot of the TPL window that shows how this window is setup.

ThrottleStop 9.7.2 Download

ThrottleStop is a small application designed to monitor for and correct the three main types of CPU throttling that are being used on many lapto

www.techpowerup.com

If TDP Level Control is not checked in ThrottleStop, it should not be causing any ConfigTDP errors or problems.

 

[logiku]

@logiku - Try using the latest version of ThrottleStop. Post a screenshot of the TPL window that shows how this window is setup.

ThrottleStop 9.7.2 Download

ThrottleStop is a small application designed to monitor for and correct the three main types of CPU throttling that are being used on many lapto

www.techpowerup.com

If TDP Level Control is not checked in ThrottleStop, it should not be causing any ConfigTDP errors or problems.

@unclewebb thank you for the response.

Due to the issues I reset ThrottleStop to default by removing my INI and having ThrottleStop creating a new one. So the TPL should be default values. I have attached it to this post labeled tpl.png.

In terms of modifying ThrottleStop I modified the options (options.png) in the following areas:
- Black Area Icon checked
- AC Profile set to 1
- Battery Profile set to 3
- Low Battery % set to 15
- Low Battery Profile set to 4
- Nvidia GPU checked
- AC Timer set to 0
- Alarm turned on with DTS 5 and profile 4 and GPU 78 with profile 3

FIVR (fivr.png)
- CPU Core and CPU Cache set to -100.6 mv
- Intel GPU set to -50.8 mv
- These settings are on all profiles

Profile difference
- Profile 1 and 2 has EPP set to 0
- Profile 3 has EPP set to 128
- Profile 4 has EPP set to 255

 

[unclewebb]

Executing Function: ConfigTdpPolicy::synchronizeConfigTdpPlatformSettings
Message: ConfigTdp not supported.

Both ThrottleStop and the Intel documentation show that the 8950HK does not support TDP Level Control. That is why these settings in ThrottleStop show a lock icon. These settings are locked out so you cannot use ThrottleStop to make any changes.

OperatingSystemConfigTdpLevelChanged

That message does not make much sense. If a CPU does not support TDP Level control and if the TDP Level register is locked, how can it be changed? It cannot be changed.

The error messages are for the DPTF driver. These error messages do not list ThrottleStop as the problem. I would ignore these messages. All I can think of is that the DPTF driver is trying to change a locked register. ThrottleStop checks the TDP Level register before writing to it. If TDP Level Control is not checked and if the TDP Level register is locked, ThrottleStop does not even attempt to write anything to this register.

What sort of stability tests have you done to prove that your voltage settings are stable? Try running a partial load test like a TS Bench - 8 Thread test at a size of 960M. If you have any errors, reduce the cache offset to -75 mV and test again. The core and cache voltages do not need to be set equally. Most people get their best results when the core offset is set to a much bigger number compared to the cache offset. Use Cinebench R20 when testing different voltages.

MAXON Cinebench R20.0 Download

CINEBENCH is a real-world cross platform test suite that evaluates your computer's performance capabilities. CINEBENCH is based on MAXON's award-winn

www.techpowerup.com

For your Intel GPU undervolt, I would not bother. There is very little to be gained by undervolting this and you might end up losing stability. If you do decide to undervolt the Intel GPU, you also have to undervolt the iGPU Unslice or this is not going to work. Save this for last. No laptop should be unresponsive.

 

[logiku]

In terms of testing, nothing really. I've just been using the values for two years now so I assumed they were okay.

This is one of the guides I followed: The ThrottleStop Guide (2020): How to Lower Temperatures, Increase Performance, and Boost Battery Life on Your Laptop. It has been updated since I used it, but it still mentions the same advice. In the Undervolting section it explains a bit, but the relevant quote would:

There are 6 elements under “FIVR control”, but we only care about three: CPU Core, CPU Cache, and Intel GPU. In fact, CPU core and CPU cache should almost always be set to the same value.

So this is why I only modified the CPU Core, CPU Cache and Intel GPU and not the iGPU Unslice. They actually don't mention the Unslice, but doing a search I see a comment mention the screenshot showing they didn't touch the Intel GPU and actually modified the iGPU Unslice. So it seems like the guide has a mistake. I will go ahead and undue the Intel GPU undervolt so that only the CPU Core and and CPU Cache are modified.

Also this is why the CPU Core and CPU Cache are the same as the end sentence mentions they should almost always be set to the same value. Looking under your username I see you're the author of ThrottleStop so it seems like I've been following some bad advice as you're saying the opposite.

The reason I went with the voltage I did was this line:

In general, modern mobile CPUs undervolt very well (between -125-165mv) while older (3rd and 4th gen Core-series chips) may only be able to undervolt 40-50mv.

Having a Core i9 8th Gen I figured -100 mv would be safe since it's lower than the -125-165 mv range they quoted. It has worked fine for about two years now.

With regards to the TS Bench Priority Normal, Threads 8, Size 960M and MHz Fixed.
- At -100mv for the Core and Cache (I turned off the Intel GPU) I got 218.533. The CPU core's hovered around 57-58C and maxed at 65-68C.
- At -100mv for the Core and -75mv for the Cache I got 213.707. The CPU core's hovered around 57-58C and maxed at 65-68C.

No errors, so it might have been the Intel GPU that was causing issues.

With regards to CineBench:
At -100mv for the Core and Cache it shows 1533 pts
At -100mv for the Core and -75m for the Cache it shows 1541 pts

So in both cases the -75mv runs a tiny bit better, if I'm understanding the results properly. Are these good results? I'll keep it running, but it seems promising removing the Intel GPU.

 

[unclewebb]

@logiku - For a long time everyone believed that the core and cache offset voltages have to be set equally. It was not until users started doing some hands on testing that they learned that setting these voltages equally is not necessary. Here is some user testing that changed my mind. A lot of guides and YouTube videos need to be updated.

Cinebench Test.zip

drive.google.com

It is OK to follow a guide to get a general understanding of things but after that, you need to do your own testing. Hardly anyone writing a guide has a 8950HK so no one knows what is best for your CPU. There is no way to find out without doing some testing.

it shows 1533 pts

I hope that is not your score when running the Cinebench R20 test. A decent 6 core CPU should be over 3000 points. An 8950HK should be well beyond that. Post a screenshot of ThrottleStop with the Limit Reasons window open while the Cinebench R20 test is running and about 75% complete.

Edit - I used msconfig to convert my CPU to a 6 core 12 thread CPU and I used ThrottleStop to run it at 4300 MHz to try and get a fair comparison to your computer. Your TS Bench score seems to indicate that your computer is under performing significantly. Make sure the monitoring table is showing all 12 of your threads.

 

[logiku]

Wow, not exactly double, but close to it. They're getting way better scores with the i7.

How did you expand your table and remove the summary at the bottom of the table? Under the table and above FIVR, TPLC, etc. I see a summary that shows C0% and PKG Power. If I hover the mouse on the edges it won't let me resize. I'll do two screenshots so I can capture all cores since I can't get it to show all of them.

There wasn't a percentage shown in CineBench so I estimated it. Limits shows PL1 and EDP Other

 

[unclewebb]

Your Dell XPS is a lemon. An expensive lemon but still a lemon.

Your CPU is running at less than half the speed it should be running at. That explains why your Cinebench scores are half of what they should be. ThrottleStop shows the problem.

In the Limit Reasons window it shows PL1 in red under the CORE column. That means your CPU is power limit throttling. The Intel specs show that the 8950HK has a 45W TDP rating.

Product Specifications

quick reference guide including specifications, features, pricing, compatibility, design documentation, ordering codes, spec codes and more.

ark.intel.com

Dell thinks that it is OK to charge their customers extra money for a high performance mobile CPU and then they deliberately set the power limit to 15W so their customers can not achieve the performance they paid for. This kills performance. Your CPU is forced to slow down so it does not exceed 15W. ThrottleStop shows 15.3W in one of your screenshots and 15.4W in the other. Not sure why this has not resulted in a class action lawsuit yet. Other manufacturers are not doing this. Only Dell laptops have this feature.

The last person that contacted Dell to get to the bottom of this problem got the run around. They were told that this was by design and Dell had no intention of fixing this. You can try contacting Dell but don't hold your breath.

For an extended view of what all of your CPU threads are doing, double click on the monitoring table in ThrottleStop. Double click on it again to go back to the smaller view.

Edit - The less expensive 8750H can score over 3000 points in Cinebench R20 when it is installed in a laptop that does not have any power limit throttling issues.

t0bimaru`s Cinebench - R20 score: 3172 cb with a Core i7 8750H

The Core i7 8750H @ 3900MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the Cinebench - R20 benchmark. t0bimaruranks #1106 worldwide and #1 in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.

hwbot.org

 

[logiku]

Well that's unfortunate. I'd love to fight Dell on this, but I imagine the reason why most people don't and why Dell can get away with this is that I don't have the money to pay for a lawyer to fight them. I'll definitely talk to support and see where I can go with this, but it's two years old so I doubt I'll get anywhere with them. I know I won't be purchasing Dell again and won't recommend them to anyone either. I almost feel like selling it, but Windows laptops don't exactly hold their value over time.

Is there any benefit to running ThrottleStop still with the undervolt or does the PL1 and 15W limit make it so I don't see any benefit to running ThrottleStop?

 

[unclewebb]

Is there any benefit

If you do not undervolt your processor, power consumption will increase. You will reach the 15W power limit sooner and your CPU will be forced to slow down even more than it is now.

This bizarre throttling scheme is starting to surface in a wide variety of Dell laptops. I am not sure if this problem has always been there and no one noticed or if maybe there was a recent BIOS update that caused this. Perhaps it is planned obsolescence so owners will dutifully run out and buy a new Dell laptop.

I stopped buying or recommending Dell laptops more than 12 years ago. Their throttling schemes back then were even more shocking than what you are experiencing now. Computers that run at only 5% to 10% of their rated speed are no fun at all.

 

[logiku]

That makes sense. I'll keep it running so it's not as bad.

Actually, I have good news for you. I decided to research some more and experiment and installed the Dell Power Manger application (previously I had no Dell software installed. I clean install Windows and only install drivers). There is a Thermal Management setting in this application that provides 4 modes. By default it is on Optimized, but there is also Cool, Quiet and Ultra Performance. I attached an image with the description of each mode. I changed my mode to Ultra Performance. My PKG Power watt was hitting 30-45W which meets the Intel spec. The Max shows 82W.

So I ran Cinebench again and got a score of 1843. Obviously not as good as it should be, but better. I noticed the following while watching ThrottleStop. Under Core the Thermal, PL 2 and TVB would flash red. Under RING the EDP Other would flash red. My max temp was 98C and PROCHOT is 97C so a RED "HOT" showed up next to it when it hit max temp. The max temp of my cores are all 97-98C with only a couple at 88C. So it looks like I'm in the right direction and now I am being thermal throttled and not power throttled. Is that correct?

Should I now increase the undervolt from -100mv to higher (say -120mv) or should I look at the TPL settings?

I appreciate your help thus far. I think we are heading in the right direction and I hope this also helps others as it seems like Dell Power Manager needs to be installed.

edit: Forgot to attach the image.

edit 2: I don't fully understand much, but trying to experiment based on the Cinebench score. This is my results so far.

UV (Core,Cache) PL1 PL2 Cinebench
-100mv, -75mv 45W 45W 1830

-120mv, -75mv 45W 50W 2535
-120mv, -75mv 45W 60W 2139

-130mv, -100mv 45W 50W 2560
-130mv, -100mv 45W 55W 2393
-130mv, -100mv 45W 60W 2146

The one key with higher than 50W PL2 is that I'm hitting the Alarm (DTS set to 5) and switching to my profile 4 which knocks me down (EPP is set to 255 on profile 4). No longer hitting Thermal in the Limit Reasons, but the Alarm is knocking me down. I am hitting PL2 in all tests for the Limit Reasons, but I think any higher than 50W it becomes too hot for the cooling to handle.

The two best scores are the -120mv, -75mv at 50W and the -130m, -100mv at 50W. I was able to bump my score up by 1000 to the 2500 range, but obviously that's still lower than the 3000 that the 8750's get.

Right now I'm going to stop and leave it set to -130mv Core, -100mv Cache, 45W PL1 and 50W PL2. I'll wait to see what you think of these results and how I should continue. I'm not sure if I should push the undervolt lower or if I should look at anything else.

 

[unclewebb]

1843

That is a big improvement. Only Dell would call performance way below the competition to be "Ultra Performance". When you bought your laptop, other laptops from other manufacturers with 4 core CPUs were scoring over 2000 points in Cinebench R20. You paid a premium for the top of the line, high performance 8950HK. It is many miles away from premium performance.

Any decent laptop with a 45W processor should be able to run Cinebench R20 without the power ever dropping below 45W. If it is doing this because it is overheating or it is trying to avoid overheating, that means Dell should have put a little more effort into proper cooling. The heatsink and fan are inadequate so they crated some band-aid throttling methods like power limit throttling to slide this past unsuspecting consumers. People assume that if you spend more money, you get better performance. With the XPS line, that is not true at all.

now I am being thermal throttled and not power throttled

The CORE column in Limit Reasons is the important one. Your laptops is using a wide variety of throttling methods including thermal throttling because it runs too hot. The XPS line could have been fantastic laptops. There is no reasonable explanation for the lack of performance you are seeing other than poor design. It is definitely not a "thing of beauty" as Dell's recent commercials claim.

 

[logiku]

I agree the customer shouldn't have to be going through so much trouble to try and squeak performance out that should have been out of the box. Most customers won't be able to do such. It's a shame they get away with it.

I have a couple more benchmarks. I experimented with the time limit this time:

UV (Core,Cache) PL1 PL2 Time Cinebench
-130mv, -100mv 45W 50W 2 2559
-130mv, -100mv 45W 60W 2 2556


-100mv, -75mv 45W 55W 16 2494
-100mv, -75mv 45W 60W 16 2486

-130mv, -100mv 45W 60W 16 2585

The best result was again the -130mv, -100mv, at 45W and 60W with a time of 16. However, it performed similar to the -130mv, -100mv, at 45W and 50W at 28.

I feel like the 2500 range might be my limit.

 

[unclewebb]

@logiku - At least your Cinebench scores are more respectable now. When testing, you need to give the CPU some time to recover between tests. When you run back to back tests, there will be less turbo boost available for the second test. You will find that your scores will decrease even if all of your settings are exactly the same.

Try bumping only the core voltage in steps of -25mV. Some users get great results with the core at -200 mV or beyond.

 

[logiku]

Thanks for the suggestions. I will keep that in mind. I was just able to hit 2690. I read in another thread a suggestion to set the Turbo Ratio Limits to 39 and I also decided to turn off the alarm after seeing talk of how Intel knows best with setting the 100C limit (although mine is 97C).

UV (Core,Cache) PL1 PL2 Time Cinebench
-130mv, -100mv 50W 60W 28 2690

I guess my question is, when looking at the Limit Reasons, is the goal to eliminate them all? For example, the last tests at the 2500 range I was never getting the thermal reason and was hitting the PL1 and PL2 limit reasons. With the above test I hit the PL1 and PL2 limit reasons less, but the thermal limit reason popped. Is it better to have the thermal limit reason not show up at all?

 

[unclewebb]

2690

Good work. That is a 75% increase compared to your first Cinebench score.

The 8950HK is a powerful CPU for a laptop. If it is limited to 45W, it is going to power limit throttle. If it is allowed to run at full speed, it will overheat and thermal throttle. It would be nice to eliminate all of the different warnings lighting up red in Limit Reasons but with your laptop, that is not going to happen. When fully loaded, there is always gong to be some type of throttling that limits maximum performance. When testing, watch the multiplier (FID) and CPU speed in ThrottleStop. The faster your CPU runs, the better.

 

[logiku]

Thanks for the tips! I appreciate your help getting me this far.