Gsync, Vsync, 120hz, 60hz - Questions

[djsolidsnake86]

Hello I was trying to understand what is the best configuration to play with my OLed TV at 120Hz compatible Gsync
If I keep the 60Hz, 60fps, Gsync active and Vsync active video games are fluid, I only have problems when active the frame generator and I have to play full screen window (in fullscreen the games play at 30fps)
If I put the 120Hz, 60fps, Gsync Active, Vsync deactivated the video games are fluid but not like when I keep the 60Hz, in this situation I have no problems with frame generator
What is the best configuration in your opinion? Generally I put the Cap to the FPS because the 60 frames do not mind, I don't see great difference in using the more frames and getting the GPU to warm up and consume more
What do you think?

 

[agent_x007]

Gsync without hardware module, is limited to 48FPS (48Hz) minimum for it to work.
If your card can't create more frames - it stops working (if drops are at or below this value).

 

[djsolidsnake86]

Gsync without hardware module, is limited to 48FPS (48Hz) minimum for it to work.
If your card can't create more frames - it stops working (if drops are at or below this value).

i have a 4080 super

 

[londiste]

120Hz, Gsync on, Vsync off.

Gsync without hardware module, is limited to 48FPS (48Hz) minimum for it to work.
If your card can't create more frames - it stops working (if drops are at or below this value).

Are you sure about that?

 

[Dr. Dro]

120Hz, Gsync on, Vsync off.
Are you sure about that?

It's not a fixed limitation, but most lower-end panels will not compensate frame rate below 48 fps, and will exhibit stuttering and/or flickering below that point. Some of the better panels usually do 40 Hz, but this is significantly worse than even the first generation hardware G-Sync monitors like the XB271HU, which is rated for 35 Hz and has been known to go lower without losing G-Sync's coverage.

 

[agent_x007]

Are you sure about that?

Well, that is the limitation for my monitor

^Note : I'm using LG's 27GP950 monitor.

 

[remekra]

Had LG C2 OLED, below 48Hz LFC kicked in and doubled the refresh rate, so still no tearing and no stutters. I thought that it's standard these days.

Well, that is the limitation for my monitor

View attachment 385227

^Note : I'm using LG's 27GP950 monitor.

So it also has LFC.

 

[agent_x007]

So it also has LFC.

Rated at 48-160, but we don't know what OP has.

 

[djsolidsnake86]

Rated at 48-160, but we don't know what OP has.

my oled is a panasonic 65lz1000

 

[remekra]

Rated at 48-160, but we don't know what OP has.

LFC kicks in once you go below that. If your framerate goes down to 40 gsync/freesync doesn't turn off. It doubles your refresh rate so in case if 40 fps refresh rate will be 80.
He has an OLED tv with 120hz probably LG so it will be the same story for him.

L

my oled is a panasonic 65lz1000

It has a range of 40 to 120 then. I bet it also has LFC.

When I Had my LG with 120HZ I had freesync/gsync turned on with vsync as well so that I didn't go over 120fps. I don't mind a little bit of latency that comes with vsync.

 

[djsolidsnake86]

LFC kicks in once you go below that. If your framerate goes down to 40 gsync/freesync doesn't turn off. It doubles your refresh rate so in case if 40 fps refresh rate will be 80.
He has an OLED tv with 120hz probably LG so it will be the same story for him.

L

It has a range of 40 to 120 then. I bet it also has LFC.

When I Had my LG with 120HZ I had freesync/gsync turned on with vsync as well so that I didn't go over 120fps. I don't mind a little bit of latency that comes with vsync.

sso what are the best settings?

 

[Dr. Dro]

sso what are the best settings?

The best settings are... the ones your computer can manage for the frame rate you want to target, within the panel's VRR range. Lower game settings to match it. Tools like Special K can help smooth out the frametimes.

 

[Onasi]

sso what are the best settings?

The general go-to rule of thumb for years was VRR (GSync, FreeSync, doesn’t matter) On, V-Sync Off in-game, V-Sync On in the GPU Control panel, limit FPS to 3-4 frames lower than the refresh rate (in-engine limiters tend to be optimal, but if that isn’t available or working correctly using RTSS or the GPU limiter is the best way to go). Obviously, if you want smoother gameplay and can’t hold close to your refresh lowering the limiter to whatever is stable is an option too. Those settings were originally tested and considered “optimal” for earlier GSync, but nothing really changed in this regard and NVidia kinda supports them themselves considering that’s exactly how Reflex interacts with GSync automatically.

Edit: Those recommendations originally also included using Exclusive Fullscreen, but on modern Windows it no longer matters and you can use whatever. Fullscreen with MPO behaves like Borderless Windowed for all intents and purposes anyway.

 

[Dr. Dro]

The general go-to rule of thumb for years was VRR (GSync, FreeSync, doesn’t matter) On, V-Sync Off in-game, V-Sync On in the GPU Control panel, limit FPS to 3-4 frames lower than the refresh rate (in-engine limiters tend to be optimal, but if that isn’t available or working correctly using RTSS or the GPU limiter is the best way to go). Obviously, if you want smoother gameplay and can’t hold close to your refresh lowering the limiter to whatever is stable is an option too. Those settings were originally tested and considered “optimal” for earlier GSync, but nothing really changed in this regard and NVidia kinda supports them themselves considering that’s exactly how Reflex interacts with GSync automatically.

Edit: Those recommendations originally also included using Exclusive Fullscreen, but on modern Windows it no longer matters and you can use whatever. Fullscreen with MPO behaves like Borderless Windowed for all intents and purposes anyway.

afaik, the few frames below the limit is for Reflex/Anti-Lag, the latency is lowest when GPU is running at around 95%, but this is the solid advice that should be followed even when Reflex isn't in the picture IMO

 

[AusWolf]

Frame generation is never gonna feel as fluid as good old traditional frame-by-frame rendering.

Also, I don't know how Gsync works, but with my Freesync config, I have to set it at max refresh rate (144 Hz on my monitor) for it to work. If I set 60 Hz, I'll just end up having constant 60 Hz with no variable rate.

 

[Onasi]

@Dr. Dro
No. Yes. Kinda. Both. It is indeed how it works with that NOW, but originally it was done to basically have all the benefits of V-Synced VRR without the downside of the increased input lag at the maxed refresh. G-Sync originally as intended by NV actually mandated V-Sync. Not to work as V-Sync as it was classically known at the time, but to compensate for frametime variance. Which is how it works to this day. Essentially, V-Sync On with G-Sync isn’t really V-Sync below max refresh, which caused much confusion.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Also, I don't know how Gsync works, but with my Freesync config, I have to set it at max refresh rate (144 Hz on my monitor) for it to work. If I set 60 Hz, I'll just end up having constant 60 Hz with no variable rate.

G-Sync works when max refresh is set below panel maximum, but otherwise it's the same concept. The inner workings of hardware G-Sync are completely transparent to the end user

 

[remekra]

@Dr. Dro
No. Yes. Kinda. Both. It is indeed how it works with that NOW, but originally it was done to basically have all the benefits of V-Synced VRR without the downside of the increased input lag at the maxed refresh. G-Sync originally as intended by NV actually mandated V-Sync. Not to work as V-Sync as it was classically known at the time, but to compensate for frametime variance. Which is how it works to this day. Essentially, V-Sync On with G-Sync isn’t really V-Sync below max refresh, which caused much confusion.

I think Vsync On in Nvidia App now even automatically caps the framerate below monitor refresh when used with Gsync. I noticed that my framerate never actually locks to screen refresh rate, just couple frames below.

 

[umeng2002]

I think Vsync On in Nvidia App now even automatically caps the framerate below monitor refresh when used with Gsync. I noticed that my framerate never actually locks to screen refresh rate, just couple frames below.

Interesting. I thought it was just when Reflex was built into the game. But, essentially, Reflex support means you don't need a manual cap. Maybe do a manual cap slightly lower for pacing purposes. I have a 75Hz VRR monitor, and using Reflex caps it to 74 or 73 FPS. When I manually cap, I just set it to 72 FPS.

 

[Onasi]

I think Vsync On in Nvidia App now even automatically caps the framerate below monitor refresh when used with Gsync. I noticed that my framerate never actually locks to screen refresh rate, just couple frames below.

Only with Reflex from my knowledge. At least I haven’t seen this behavior automatically in other situations, though it’s possible that in newer games with NV profiles that’s indeed the case. I, uh, don’t really play many newer games to say. Currently on another round of random map in HoMM3, so… yeah.

 

[AusWolf]

G-Sync works when max refresh is set below panel maximum, but otherwise it's the same concept. The inner workings of hardware G-Sync are completely transparent to the end user

Freesync should work below max refresh, too. It's probably just my monitor acting weird. Or maybe some software oddity. I haven't tried doing that under Linux, to be fair, and on Windows, even HDR didn't work as intended.

 

[londiste]

Well, that is the limitation for my monitor

View attachment 385227

^Note : I'm using LG's 27GP950 monitor.

Had LG C2 OLED, below 48Hz LFC kicked in and doubled the refresh rate, so still no tearing and no stutters. I thought that it's standard these days.

This is basically what I meant. As far as I know, anything deemed Gsync Compatible does run with LFC.
What LFC does and Gsync did/does inherently is that if fps falls lower than minimum refresh rate of the monitor, it doubles the frames so that resulting refresh rate is within the monitor range. If your monitor has 48Hz as minimum and your fps is say 30, the driver/card shows the same frame twice and for the monitor refresh rate is effectively 60. It can also be quadrupled if necessary.

 

[AusWolf]

This is basically what I meant. As far as I know, anything deemed Gsync Compatible does run with LFC.
What LFC does and Gsync did/does inherently is that if fps falls lower than minimum refresh rate of the monitor, it doubles the frames so that resulting refresh rate is within the monitor range. If your monitor has 48Hz as minimum and your fps is say 30, the driver/card shows the same frame twice and for the monitor refresh rate is effectively 60. It can also be quadrupled if necessary.

That sounds great in concept, but can be a bit of a pain sometimes.

For example when your FPS hovers around 48, you can have 48 Hz for one millisecond, but 47x2=94 Hz for the next, which can look like backlight flicker depending on the monitor model.

Some monitors (like mine) even do that in fullscreen video (24 FPS resulting in a 48/96 Hz flicker or 30 FPS in a 60/90 Hz flicker).

 

[londiste]

There are differences in implementation. Might be wrong about the details here but IIRC LFC canonically works exactly as I described above while GSync kind of preventively starts doubling frames when fps falls below half of maximum refresh rate. Either way, flickering in that situation is a sign of bad monitor

For fullscreen video there was a pretty wide push among players at some point to avoid running into this situation - usually frame doubling on software/player side.