Help double check and improve my i7-9750H setup

[bustaone]

I have attached my settings that I'm running on my i7-9750H,

I ideally want to stop it throttling and remove the PL2 error and find out what's causing the EDP error

My idea for lowing the thermal is reducing the boost time, but want to make sure that's the right thing to do, and to fix the PL2 issue I keep raising the power limit on PL2 but keeps coming back now I'm wondering if the error is because the PL2 is to high??

and I have no idea what the EDP other on the ring is referring to.

any help is appreciated.

 

[A&P211]

What model laptop do you have?

 

[unclewebb]

The FIVR window shows that you have Windows 11 VBS enabled. Most of the settings including voltage control do not work correctly until you disable VBS including core isolation memory integrity. Follow the link in my signature to do this. Reboot and delete the ThrottleStop.INI configuration file before starting ThrottleStop. This file can get corrupted if you try to run ThrottleStop with VBS enabled.

EDP OTHER goes red under the RING column whenever PL2 or THERMAL go red under the CORE column. You can ignore the RING column during this situation. Only watch the CORE column.

If you had better cooling maybe you could avoid PL2 and THERMAL throttling. Without better cooling, you are going to end up with one or the other. If you raise the turbo power limits to the moon, your CPU will thermal throttle instead of power limit throttle. Throttling is throttling either way.

Post an updated screenshot of the FIVR window after you disable VBS. A good place to start testing is with the core voltage and cache offset both at about -100 mV. Many 9750H are 100% stable with the cache offset between -100 mV and -125 mV. The core offset can usually be set to -175 mV to -200 mV. This seems to reduce voltage when the CPU is using a lot of AVX instructions. Do some Cinebench R23 testing when using different voltages. Not all benchmark software responds to using different voltages.

Use ThrottleStop 9.6

Use ThrottleStop to access the Windows High Performance power plan if you want your CPU to run at max speed when lightly loaded. Usually you do not have to check the Speed Shift EPP box on the main ThrottleStop screen. Windows can manage the EPP value if you let it.

 

[bustaone]

The FIVR window shows that you have Windows 11 VBS enabled. Most of the settings including voltage control do not work correctly until you disable VBS including core isolation memory integrity. Follow the link in my signature to do this. Reboot and delete the ThrottleStop.INI configuration file before starting ThrottleStop. This file can get corrupted if you try to run ThrottleStop with VBS enabled.

EDP OTHER goes red under the RING column whenever PL2 or THERMAL go red under the CORE column. You can ignore the RING column during this situation. Only watch the CORE column.

If you had better cooling maybe you could avoid PL2 and THERMAL throttling. Without better cooling, you are going to end up with one or the other. If you raise the turbo power limits to the moon, your CPU will thermal throttle instead of power limit throttle. Throttling is throttling either way.

Post an updated screenshot of the FIVR window after you disable VBS. A good place to start testing is with the core voltage and cache offset both at about -100 mV. Many 9750H are 100% stable with the cache offset between -100 mV and -125 mV. The core offset can usually be set to -175 mV to -200 mV. This seems to reduce voltage when the CPU is using a lot of AVX instructions. Do some Cinebench R23 testing when using different voltages. Not all benchmark software responds to using different voltages.

Use ThrottleStop 9.6

Use ThrottleStop to access the Windows High Performance power plan if you want your CPU to run at max speed when lightly loaded. Usually you do not have to check the Speed Shift EPP box on the main ThrottleStop screen. Windows can manage the EPP value if you let it.

thank you for the quick reply, In regards to windows VBS, I have some concerns with doing that because it was built in to windows to help combat vulnerability's in CPU's such as the meltdown exploit.
So are you saying I wont see a benifit if I leave VBS on?

I have updated to 9.6 now didn't realise new version was out.

What model laptop do you have?

Lenovo Legion Y540-17irh

 

[unclewebb]

You cannot undervolt and you cannot get maximum performance out of your computer when VBS is enabled. Your choice.

The majority of items in the FIVR window do not work when VBS is enabled. Most of the items in the TPL window seem to work correctly whether VBS is enabled or not.

 

[bustaone]

You cannot undervolt and you cannot get maximum performance out of your computer when VBS is enabled. Your choice.

The majority of items in the FIVR window do not work when VBS is enabled. Most of the items in the TPL window seem to work correctly whether VBS is enabled or not.

Ok I have turned VBS off but I don't see no different I have deleted throttlestop and config and redownloaded and setup and still not seeing a difference this is my settings now

seems like VBS is still running, but I have turned it off everyway possible in your guide. still enabled.

 

[unclewebb]

Is core isolation memory integrity turned off?

Post a screenshot of the Windows Features window. You still have something enabled that is preventing ThrottleStop from accessing the voltage control register.

When things are working correctly, you will not see 0.3799 in the FIVR monitoring table Voltage column.

 

[bustaone]

Is core isolation memory integrity turned off?

Post a screenshot of the Windows Features window. You still have something enabled that is preventing ThrottleStop from accessing the voltage control register.

When things are working correctly, you will not see 0.3799 in the FIVR monitoring table Voltage column.

I have tried everything in your guide its not turning off. in sys info still says running.

 

[unclewebb]

Post a screenshot of the Windows Features window.

 

[bustaone]

here you go mate,

 

[unclewebb]

Increase the size of the Windows Features window so I can see all of the entries. Clear Windows Sandbox.

Any feature that uses virtualization has to be disabled.

 

[bustaone]

@unclewebb
right fixed it mate, not sure why I couldn't turn it off in the OS, but I disabled virtulation in the bios and now its working.

Increase the size of the Windows Features window so I can see all of the entries. Clear Windows Sandbox.

Any feature that uses virtualization has to be disabled.

I think its just sandbox using virtualization, but I have just disabled virtualization in the bios now and that has sorted it, I might test it another point to see if i can get it turn off in the OS for my own sanity.

all I have setup now is -175 on the core and -130 on the cache and it stable on a few benchmarks and doesn't go past 83, unless i do a burn in benchmark then it hits 95, so I think that's all good. but as it only getting to 83, do you reckon i have head room to raise the clocks or leave it as it is?

 

[unclewebb]

do you reckon i have head room to raise the clocks

The 9750H is not an overclockable processor. You cannot raise the clocks beyond their default values. You should be OK as long as the turbo ratios are set to their default values.

Turn on the ThrottleStop Log File option and go play a game. Post an updated FIVR screenshot and attach a log file so I can see if there are any problems. Try running the TS Bench 960M test. Some 9750H will start showing errors during this test when the cache offset is set to -130 mV. If you have some temperature headroom, adding +5 mV to the cache might be a good idea. No need to run on the very edge of stability.

I have just disabled virtualization in the bios now and that has sorted it

That is good to hear. It seems that for some computers, turning off the virtualization BIOS setting is necessary.

 

[A&P211]

@unclewebb
right fixed it mate, not sure why I couldn't turn it off in the OS, but I disabled virtulation in the bios and now its working.

I think its just sandbox using virtualization, but I have just disabled virtualization in the bios now and that has sorted it, I might test it another point to see if i can get it turn off in the OS for my own sanity.

all I have setup now is -175 on the core and -130 on the cache and it stable on a few benchmarks and doesn't go past 83, unless i do a burn in benchmark then it hits 95, so I think that's all good. but as it only getting to 83, do you reckon i have head room to raise the clocks or leave it as it is?

The 9750h doesn't overclock, it will simply boost upto 4.1ghz all core now that you have lower temperatures

 

[unclewebb]

it will simply boost up to 4.1ghz all core

40 is the maximum multiplier for a 9750H when all 6 cores are active.

 

[bustaone]

The 9750H is not an overclockable processor. You cannot raise the clocks beyond their default values. You should be OK as long as the turbo ratios are set to their default values.

Turn on the ThrottleStop Log File option and go play a game. Post an updated FIVR screenshot and attach a log file so I can see if there are any problems. Try running the TS Bench 960M test. Some 9750H will start showing errors during this test when the cache offset is set to -130 mV. If you have some temperature headroom, adding +5 mV to the cache might be a good idea. No need to run on the very edge of stability.


That is good to hear. It seems that for some computers, turning off the virtualization BIOS setting is necessary.

ah that's a shame it cant be overclocked, max temp on that 960m test was 88 degrees with zero errors,
the FVIR is default except for the change to voltages on core and cache

attached is the log from playing a game, it did hit thermal limit and PL1 limit

 

[A&P211]

40 is the maximum multiplier for a 9750H when all 6 cores are active.

View attachment 314311

you're right, 8750h, was 3.7, 9750h was 4.0 and 10th was 4.3.

 

[unclewebb]

8750h, was 3.7

More faded memories.

The 8750H uses the 39 multiplier when all cores are active.

@bustaone

Your log file does show some PL1 power limit throttling right at 50W. If the MSR PL1 power limit is set to 70W like your previous screenshot showed and the MMIO Lock box is checked then that means your computer uses an embedded controller (EC) to enforce a 50W power limit. ThrottleStop cannot be used to bypass that limit. Other than that, your computer looks like it is running well.

Edit - I usually recommend setting Power Limit 4 to a value of 0 and I set IccMax for both the core and the cache to the max, 255.75. This helps avoid any current limit throttling.

 

[bustaone]

@bustaone

Your log file does show some PL1 power limit throttling right at 50W. If the MSR PL1 power limit is set to 70W like your previous screenshot showed and the MMIO Lock box is checked then that means your computer uses an embedded controller (EC) to enforce a 50W power limit. ThrottleStop cannot be used to bypass that limit. Other than that, your computer looks like it is running well.

Edit - I usually recommend setting Power Limit 4 to a value of 0 and I set IccMax for both the core and the cache to the max, 255.75. This helps avoid any current limit throttling.

I will try them,

is it worth turning off thermal velocity boost? heard this is something to do with throttling at 70 degrees

 

[unclewebb]

thermal velocity boost

As far as I know, the 9750H does not use TVB. Clearing this box will probably not make any difference.

 

[A&P211]

More faded memories.

The 8750H uses the 39 multiplier when all cores are active.

View attachment 314442

@bustaone

Your log file does show some PL1 power limit throttling right at 50W. If the MSR PL1 power limit is set to 70W like your previous screenshot showed and the MMIO Lock box is checked then that means your computer uses an embedded controller (EC) to enforce a 50W power limit. ThrottleStop cannot be used to bypass that limit. Other than that, your computer looks like it is running well.

Edit - I usually recommend setting Power Limit 4 to a value of 0 and I set IccMax for both the core and the cache to the max, 255.75. This helps avoid any current limit throttling.

I guess was I robbed from extra 200mhz, my old 8750h only did 3.7 even with cool temperatures of 87C. dam you MSI

 

[bustaone]

That is good to hear. It seems that for some computers, turning off the virtualization BIOS setting is necessary.

Sorry to reopen this but, I recently needed to use some virtualization software on my machine.

Are we saying that to use throttlestop correctly you can use any virtualization features?

 

[unclewebb]

virtualization

Many items in the ThrottleStop FIVR window will not work correctly when anything virtualization related is enabled. Post a screenshot of the FIVR window if you are not sure if it is working or not.

If it is not working, I would suggest exiting ThrottleStop, delete the ThrottleStop.INI configuration file and reboot before trying to use ThrottleStop again. This configuration file can become corrupted if you try to use the FIVR features while virtualization is enabled.

Are we saying

I am saying that Windows 11 virtualization and CPU voltage control using ThrottleStop are not compatible. You can use one or the other but you cannot use both at the same time.

 

[bustaone]

now I been using throttlestop for a while, I just wanted to double check my settings and fine tune it.

I was having a PL issue before when I didn't use the TPL settings and just left that to the default but I have now started using the TPL settings and that seems to have fixed my PL issues I was getting,

do you know what is the best power limits for this CPU or is it depended on the laptop manufacture? it comes with a 230w charger if that matters?

also do I need to tick the lock checkboxes for any of the settings like in power limit controls or on power limit 4? and is having just PL1 ticket for clamp correct can you explain the purpose of clamp and lock?

I have also attached the log from when I was using the laptop heavily.

 

[unclewebb]

When I was helping you back in September, your log file showed that your laptop has a 50W power limit long term which is likely enforced by an embedded controller (EC). You cannot use ThrottleStop to get beyond this limit. Nothing has changed since then. Your laptop still has this same limit.

Your ThrottleStop settings look fine. You can set the MSR PL1 power limit to 70W but this will ultimately be ignored during a long term test and the 50W EC power limit will take over control of your CPU. You will not be able to get maximum performance out of a 9750H with only 50W but performance should not be too bad.

Checking the Clamp box enforces the 70W MSR PL1 limit. For your CPU, I cannot think of any situations where having this box checked or not checked will make any difference.

The Lock box in the Power Limit Controls section will prevent any other software on your computer from making changes to the MSR power limits. You do not need to check this box.

I have also attached the log from when I was using the laptop heavily.

The log file looks OK. Are you using the Windows High Performance power plan when playing games? For maximum performance and minimum latency, you should be using the High Performance power plan.