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High latency results in Latencymon

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I have both of those on auto on the b550 mag bazooka, paired with 5600x. Would you recommend changing them for performance or low latency ? Also been tinkering around with PSS and NX mode, Global c state, and SVM. Are there any optimizations regarding those bios options ?
 
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tabascosauz

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There really shouldn't be a reason for you to mess either either one on a 5600X. Leave them on, unless you have clearly identified and thoroughly tested clear performance issues that result specifically from either one being on. Roughly speaking, CPPC is how AGESA firmware communicates with Windows to facilitate the advertised ~2ms boost responsiveness for Zen 2 and later CPUs, and Preferred Cores is how it manages load scheduling based on the hardware-fused "preferred cores" core quality ranking. At least, that is the idea......in practice things are a little less consistent and clear.

If you disable Preferred Cores, Windows' own core quality ranking remains and the scheduler should continue to follow it, but the CPPC list is disabled and it may or may not change scheduling behaviour in Windows 11. Usually Windows' own hierarchy is similar but not identical to CPPC ranking. Win11's scheduler also treats Zen 3 a bit differently than Win10 does, especially for 12- and 16-core parts.

Yes, CPPC On and Preferred Cores Off is something of a general recommendation for 5800X3D, but 5800X3D is an unexpectedly unique outlier in a lot of ways including a lot of aspects of boost behaviour, even compared to older Zen 3 CPUs that it is supposedly similar to.

There are a lot of threads online boasting of magic stuttering fixes or more FPS just from disabling CPPC or Preferred Cores, but no reliable testing to back up any of it or exclude any other factors or variables. Not discounting users' experiences as untrue (and certainly varies PC-to-PC), just saying that due to the dynamic nature of anything Zen 2 and later, placebo is extremely common.
 
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What about SVM mode, NX mode, PSS suport and global c states ? Im having those unexplainable stutters in games, which i believe are caused by latency spikes shown in latencymon. I believe it has to do with overloading the best cores on my cpu.
 

tabascosauz

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What about SVM mode, NX mode, PSS suport and global c states ? Im having those unexplainable stutters in games, which i believe are caused by latency spikes shown in latencymon. I believe it has to do with overloading the best cores on my cpu.

None of those have anything to do with performance. Leave them alone. C-states disabled can come in handy but only for a very different and specific issue, leave it alone.

Without any hard data to support "overloading the best cores" as well as no details as to things like specific games where it happens, observed behaviour when it happens, the latencymon results, CPU and GPU behaviour when it happens, kinda hard to say anything. Gonna have to do better than that, also rather different from the topic of this thread.

I thought you marked your previous latencymon issues as being Solved? Maybe continue that thread if the problem is indeed ongoing.
 
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I have noticed, after disabling all those my latencies have improved a lot more. Ill post a screenshot.

da1.png


Wdf was around 300-500 before, ntos would jump to 1000's. Now it seems much better for me. And the current measured interrupt to process latency is around 10-20 now, with occasional spikes to 100-200.

I always had latency issues since i built my amd system, so this has been an obsession of mine. I also see people on amd forums, having same issues with audio pops and crackling on official amd forums with high end 7000 series cpus.

Another big factor was the windows 11 security settings, they keep disturbing all the windows drivers, including, gpu, audio and network drivers. Denuvo and easy anticheat on some games.
I would like to discuss more, please give what i did a try and report your results.
 
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tabascosauz

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I have noticed, after disabling all those my latencies have improved a lot more. Ill post a screenshot.

Wdf was around 300-500 before, ntos would jump to 1000's. Now it seems much better for me. And the current measured interrupt to process latency is around 10-20 now, with occasional spikes to 100-200.

I always had latency issues since i built my amd system, so this has been an obsession of mine. I also see people on amd forums, having same issues with audio pops and crackling on official amd forums with high end 7000 series cpus.

Yeah.........no. Latencymon is not a benchmark and is unpredictable as hell. Your 3 minutes and 50 seconds of recording means next to nothing. 200-300us is well within margin of error at idle.

If I leave it on while just doing my normal stuff on desktop, it'll regularly catch 1000us+ spikes that are meaningless and cause no adverse effects whatsoever. Conversely, trying to use Latencymon to track down visible and reproducible in-game stutters often doesn't turn up anything, only in the absolute worst cases of regular 10000us+ latency where something is seriously wrong. I have had the Zen 3 audio issues before on past CPUs/boards, and I have had specific in-game stutters. LatencyMon couldn't find anything.

Maybe pick a thread and stick to it (preferably your original, own thread on latencymon stutters), instead of asking the same thing in 3 different places.

LatencyMon is not a performance monitor. It's a self-described "audio suitability" checker, and its usefulness even in that role is pretty suspect. It's worth a quick look if you're having stutters, but it's not an incredibly useful tool.

latencymon normal.png

Another big factor was the windows 11 security settings, they keep disturbing all the windows drivers, including, gpu, audio and network drivers. Denuvo and easy anticheat on some games.
I would like to discuss more, please give what i did a try and report your results.

I don't use VBS in Win11 because I run TPM disabled. That's really the only thing I can think of that makes a consistently appreciable and repeatable difference (penalty) to performance.

Denuvo and Easy Anticheat are not something the hardware can control.

Like I said, I run CPPC On and Preferred Cores Off because that's the 5800X3D recommendation. You can experiment with Preferred Cores to see if it makes a difference. There's no reason to disable CPPC.

Again, Latencymon is not a benchmark. Until you can show a clear difference in benchmarked game performance, sitting there staring at Latencymon is a huge waste of time.
 
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I think you are underestimating what this program is capable of and do not fully understand its functions, i can link multiple threads here how many people are going crazy over this phenomenon at hand. Like 10 out of 4 threads in amd support forums people are reporting this exact problem and they get overwhelmed with AMD in general.


Even microsoft has an official page related to this lol, https://support.microsoft.com/en-us...ndows-11-a255f612-2949-4373-a566-ff6f3f474613
 
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tabascosauz

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I think you are underestimating what this program is capable of and do not fully understand its functions, i can link multiple threads here how many people are going crazy over this phenomenon at hand. Like 10 out of 4 threads in amd support forums people are reporting this exact problem and they get overwhelmed with AMD in general.

By your logic, Latencymon's reporting on my setup should make mine a borderline unusable computer? :)


I literally just said that I keep TPM off. That disables any use of VBS and HVCI, which I already acknowledged as having a real impact on performance. VBS penalty is not a secret.

What is "this exact problem"? You still haven't provided any useful details aside from what you think is a useful screenshot of Latencymon:
  • Specific games that suffer stuttering, and a brief description of behaviour.
  • Do you have audio dropouts and popping? That is another issue altogether and generally to do with SOC/IO die and Fabric voltages.
  • Do your BIOS changes make a real, measurable difference to game performance?
It honestly sounds like this troubleshooting should continue in this thread where you've already provided some details:

 
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By your logic, Latencymon's reporting on my setup should make mine a borderline unusable computer? :)



I literally just said that I keep TPM off. That disables any use of VBS and HVCI, which I already acknowledged as having a real impact on performance. VBS penalty is not a secret.

What is "this exact problem"? You still haven't provided any useful details aside from what you think is a useful screenshot of Latencymon:
  • Specific games that suffer stuttering, and a brief description of behaviour.
  • Do you have audio dropouts and popping? That is another issue altogether and generally to do with SOC/IO die and Fabric voltages.
  • Do your BIOS changes make a real, measurable difference to game performance?
It honestly sounds like this troubleshooting should continue in this thread where you've already provided some details:

I solved my issue in that thread, i acknowledged it was not a motherboard issue, rather an issue how hardware communicates with software. Thats why i moved onto here.
 
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I think you are underestimating what this program is capable of and do not fully understand its functions, i can link multiple threads here how many people are going crazy over this phenomenon at hand. Like 10 out of 4 threads in amd support forums people are reporting this exact problem and they get overwhelmed with AMD in general.


Even microsoft has an official page related to this lol, https://support.microsoft.com/en-us...ndows-11-a255f612-2949-4373-a566-ff6f3f474613
PlaceboMon
 
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Can this thread be moved onto, software section ?

My last post here will be that, I would recommend turning off every windows 11 security settings, except TPM 2.0 and real time protection. If you are an amd user, under bios settings disable PSS support, SVM mode, NX mode, global c states, and disable both CPPC, CPPC preferred cores.
 
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Can this thread be moved onto, software section ?

My last post here will be that, I would recommend turning off every windows 11 security settings, except TPM 2.0 and real time protection. If you are an amd user, under bios settings disable PSS support, SVM mode, NX mode, global c states, and disable both CPPC, CPPC preferred cores.
My PC's offline... are you sure (cppc) ?
 
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That's pretty bad.
You should never get those numbers on a properly configured PC.
If that's on idle, you have some work to do on the software side or hardware side.

Old post :)

There was a bug in the Nvidia driver at that time that caused high DPC latency readouts. Not sure it ever affected performance, or was the cause of the extreme severity slowdown bug with Windows 11 that I had when I first built my i9-13900KS machine. It's supposedly been fixed since.
 

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Old post :)

There was a bug in the Nvidia driver at that time that caused high DPC latency readouts. Not sure it ever affected performance, or was the cause of the extreme severity slowdown bug with Windows 11 that I had when I first built my i9-13900KS machine. It's supposedly been fixed since.

Performance was unchanged on my 5800X3D build. I'd been through a number of clean installs, two boards, and nothing changed for a while. The bug was pretty stubborn through a certain date range of Nvidia drivers.

Nowadays on the latest drivers it's no longer an issue. On this newest build too. What a pointless necro

This thread originally also ended on a load of nonsense FUD recommendations, it should probably stay dead.
 
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Didnt realize it was an old thread.

Point still stands. Readouts like that forced nvidia to address the issue with driver updates after outcry from the community.

The notion that latencymoon is somehow not a "good software" is very misguided and wrong.

And by the way, on the screenshot you shared, the very high "interrupt to process latency" can and will cause audio issues, you maybe never noticed them, it doesn't mean they don't exist.
 
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