i7-10700 Memory Recommendations

[SirHaakon]

Hi friends,

New here and just looking for a little advice with a build. I have built several computers before and am not a total noob when it comes to understanding the basic concepts, but one thing I have always found difficult is RAM and what will serve the chosen CPU best.

I went ahead and bought an i7-10700, as I think it is the best overall choice for my needs. I know people are hell bent on Ryzen and that even when going Intel, this might be one of the less attractive options. That's okay; there's something for everyone and this was my choice. I am scratching my head with the memory, however. This is a purpose-built computer with some specific things in mind, so there are a few constraints. One of them is that it's an ITX build, so I'm limited to two DIMM slots. I'm not going to touch this again for awhile, so I'm going with 64GB of memory - I'm doing lots of video stuff with it and I can afford the extra capacity, so those are the parameters.

This is what I have settled on so far unless someone thinks it's terrible: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B089NZFNS9/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1.

Some of my reasoning is that I have zero need for RGB, it's got an understated aesthetic which matches my build (black + white), and it seems like in general, the timings are fairly decent without the prices being in the stratosphere.

My main question is, what frequency should I pick to pair with the i7-10700, and with this particular offering (frequency + timing combinations), is one drastically better/worse than the other?

In general, I am not an overclocker. I get it, people spend money and want to squeeze every bit of performance out of the equipment they've paid for. It entirely makes sense and I respect it. I am using the machines in production environments, however, and stability is essential for me. I'm not interested in going back and forth to find the threshold of maximum output and I don't want to be riding on that edge anyway. I also can't afford an HEDT with ECC RAM, so I'm working within my confines. From everything I have gathered, however, increasing the frequency of RAM (at least in the lower 3200-3600 range, like this memory) is completely within the safe confines of things operating just fine and even though the CPU says it is only designed to support 2933 max, one can certainly select higher speeds without worry.

That said, I don't know how high I should actually go or where I'm hitting diminishing returns - and furthermore, if the latency is erasing any of the frequency gains. I have tried to educate myself on this topic through lots of reading and watching YouTube tutorials, but it's just not sticking well. So I'd appreciate any insight; again, I'm not looking to be talked into a different CPU or form factor - those choices have already been made. I just want to get memory that is going to make the most out of my system while keeping things fully stable and at a reasonable cost, without making poor choices due to latency or speeds that won't realistically be realized or needed.

Thanks in advance for your input, it is greatly appreciated.

 

[sneekypeet]

Sorry if I missed it, but I would consider the motherboard first, so that you can check the QVL for the RAM before making that choice. Normally I would say it isnt that big of a deal, but needing 64GB in two DIMM slots would make me want to be sure it worked before fighting a potential losing battle.

 

[tabascosauz]

That kit is fine, should be even better for compatibility if it's on the QVL list.

The thing is that you want 64GB, but are limited to 2 DIMMs. This mean 32GB sticks, and that density precludes pretty much all of the "overclocking" ICs (B-die, CJR (not really), Rev.E) because they are 8Gb ICs, which generally top out at 16GB per stick dual rank.

The current 16Gb ICs from Samsung and Micron that you'll find in your high density sticks are pretty bad on frequency, timings and voltage scaling/tolerance in comparison to the best. Since the RAM capacity is most important to you, you have said that you're not an overclocker, and you stand to gain very little from overclocking if you can make 3200CL16 or 3600CL18 (the kit you listed) work on 2x32GB, the only potential problem is compatibility, which is generally rare these days. So as long as you can set XMP and have it stable out of the box, set it and forget it.

As long as you're using a Z490 board, the board won't be the limiting factor in RAM performance, save for, again, potential compatibility problems that you'll just have to trial-and-error to see. You will not be able to exceed Intel RAM speed spec (2666 or 2933) on any board that isn't Z490.

 

[SirHaakon]

Thank you both for your quick responses, I really appreciate it. Apologies for not mentioning the motherboard... I didn't even know there were compatibility variables to be considered. That's why I posted here - so I can learn a bit.

This is the motherboard: https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/MEG-Z490I-UNIFY

My build actually took a complete turn recently, but came down to needing either mATX or ITX and in addition, onboard Thunderbolt 3 support. There are very, very few options that meet both of those requirements in either AMD or Intel variants. I liked the reviews that said this board has good quality and strong VRMs, and is also a Z490 chipset, so hopefully it covers my bases.

The only thing I don't really understand is you say, "you stand to gain very little from overclocking if you can make 3200CL16 or 3600CL18 (the kit you listed) work on 2x32GB..." Is running the ram at 3200 or 3600 considered "overclocking" if the CPU only supports 2933 natively? Or are you talking about doing something even further?

 

[tabascosauz]

Thank you both for your quick responses, I really appreciate it. Apologies for not mentioning the motherboard... I didn't even know there were compatibility variables to be considered. That's why I posted here - so I can learn a bit.

This is the motherboard: https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/MEG-Z490I-UNIFY

My build actually took a complete turn recently, but came down to needing either mATX or ITX and in addition, onboard Thunderbolt 3 support. There are very, very few options that meet both of those requirements in either AMD or Intel variants. I liked the reviews that said this board has good quality and strong VRMs, and is also a Z490 chipset, so hopefully it covers my bases.

The only thing I don't really understand is you say, "you stand to gain very little from overclocking if you can make 3200CL16 or 3600CL18 (the kit you listed) work on 2x32GB..." Is running the ram at 3200 or 3600 considered "overclocking" if the CPU only supports 2933 natively? Or are you talking about doing something even further?

I'm talking about going further in frequency or lower timings, but yes, anything beyond Intel spec technically counts as overclocking as far as the CPU warranty purposes are concerned (strictly technical, Intel doesn't really care). So is pretty much any speed past 2666 as far as the memory sticks are concerned, as most DDR4 is JEDEC-rated (default, industry standard profiles) at 2133, 2400, 2666 or very rarely 3200. XMP is always an overclock.

You shouldn't have any problems with most kits. If anything, just return it and get a different kit if you run into problems. The Comet Lake CPUs have very strong memory controllers, and the Z490I Unify is unusually and significantly biased towards memory overclocking. You really shouldn't have trouble with any Z490 ITX boards; all ITX boards stand at an inherent advantage in memory capabilities because of the direct 2DIMM configuration, proximity to the socket, and high layer counts compared to mATX and ATX.

Plus, you said it yourself that you're not a memory overclocker, so as long as the kit you buy is stable at XMP settings, it's all good.

 

[SirHaakon]

Plus, you said it yourself that you're not a memory overclocker, so as long as the kit you buy is stable at XMP settings, it's all good.

I guess that's where I'm confused; no, I'm not an overclocker, but if 3600 memory is considered overclocking, do I gain anything from buying 3600 sticks over 2933? Or how do I get them to run at 3600 natively? Conversely, if the board I got is particularly strong at memory overclocking, would I be even better served getting something like 4000? I just can't figure out which speed I should actually be getting or how much it even benefits me.

 

[tabascosauz]

I guess that's where I'm confused; no, I'm not an overclocker, but if 3600 memory is considered overclocking, do I gain anything from buying 3600 sticks over 2933? Or how do I get them to run at 3600 natively? Conversely, if the board I got is particularly strong at memory overclocking, would I be even better served getting something like 4000? I just can't figure out which speed I should actually be getting or how much it even benefits me.

There is some benefit to be had. I was talking about real world gains beyond 3600.

No, that doesn't mean you should be going to 4000...because you'll need at least some knowledge of how the timings work, what voltages you need on DRAM and minor rails, etc. if you dont want to be in way over your head.

To be honest, go for 3200CL16 and it should be easy enough to be plug and play with no issues. Density is very high on 2x32GB sticks, and ITX builds can run into temperature issues at higher frequencies and voltages above 1.4V. Remember that the DIMMs are right next to each other. 3200CL16 and 3600CL16 will be rated at 1.35V so no issues there.

I said ITX boards are good RAM overclockers; I didn't say it's a good idea to use them as such in a small form factor build with limited airflow, as opposed to on an open testbench.

 

[biffzinker]

So is pretty much any speed past 2666 as far as the memory sticks are concerned, as most DDR4 is JEDEC-rated (default, industry standard profiles) at 2133, 2400, 2666 or very rarely 3200. XMP is always an overclock.

Officially the i7-10700 supports the JEDEC rated 2933 MHz.

Usually there is a benefit to running memory with an overclock above the manufacturers rated specification.

You have to consider a dual channel memory bus is feeding a eight core, sixteen thread processor that can end up bandwidth starved for certain workloads. Other workloads are latency sensitive, and the higher clockspeed can overcome looser timings reducing the latency penalty.

I just can't figure out which speed I should actually be getting or how much it even benefits me.

Just go with 3600 MHz, anything more is going to result in diminishing returns or as @tabascosauz suggested 3200 MHz should be an easy set it and go with XMP.