Is it safe buying ASUS motherboards again?

[azrael]

There's been a lot of controversy about ASUS and their (beta) BIOS frying several CPUs, after which ASUS tried to wash their hands with a "warranty voided" disclaimer. On top of that apparently quite a bit of faulty motherboards seem to reach the retail channel. From what I've learned ASUS may have seen the error of their ways and done a 180 (more or less). The question still remains: is it safe to buy their products again, especially motherboards.

The reason I'm asking is that ASUS is about the only manufacturer enabling support for ECC memory on their AMD boards (Intel boards require a specific chipset, although no longer also a specific CPU). There's also ASRock, but I can't tell which of their motherboard series is top tier and which isn't, except for the Taichi series. My problem with the Taichi is that it's an EATX motherboard which my case can't fit properly. And of course it's also top tier when it comes to price.

 

[Shrek]

Wasn't this fixed in the newer BIOS? if so, even the old boards are safe.

 

[ir_cow]

Wasn't this fixed in the newer BIOS?

Yep it was fixed when AMD issued a mandatory changed to limit SoC voltage to 1.3. Whatever AGESA 1.0.0.7 was implemented into the BIOS.

 

[Shrek]

The reason I'm asking is that ASUS is about the only manufacturer enabling support for ECC memory

By EEC memory you mean beyond that already in DDR5?

 

[evernessince]

So long as you buy a well reviewed product that's been on the market for awhile brand shouldn't matter much. Not sure I'd ever purchase an unreviewed ASUS product though, they just don't put the effort into their products to ensure they are bug free or often even safe at launch.

ASUS in general though has been going downhill for awhile now and I don't see their trajectory suddenly changing and their problems don't extend just to motherboards. The ASUS AX11000 router I have has an interface vastly inferior to the Netgear nighthawk I had with way more bugs (this is with years of updates to boot), the ASUS zenfone 8 I have frequently looses signal to the local cell tower, and the ASUS Xonar sound card I had nearly destroyed my hearing after encountering the infamous screeching bug. The only reason I have the former two is because I got good deals on them but even then I'm going to avoid ASUS for my next router and phone even at a discounted price. I just straight up threw out the sound card, worst audio product I've ever had.

The days of ASUS being high quality are long gone, they are more expensive than other brands while putting in minimum effort to get a product out the door.

ASRock is a good brand but not all their boards are amazing (same as every other brand). Really I'd just look at reviews and choose whichever fits your needs most. If there's a good quality ASRock board with ECC that you like I'd say go for it.

Wasn't this fixed in the newer BIOS? if so, even the old boards are safe.

Yep, it was although the voltages post BIOS update are still higher on ASUS than other brands.

 

[Shrek]

The ASUS AX11000 router I have has an interface vastly inferior to the Netgear nighthawk I had with way more bugs

Even the Merlin version?

 

[tabascosauz]

There's been a lot of controversy about ASUS and their (beta) BIOS frying several CPUs, after which ASUS tried to wash their hands with a "warranty voided" disclaimer. On top of that apparently quite a bit of faulty motherboards seem to reach the retail channel. From what I've learned ASUS may have seen the error of their ways and done a 180 (more or less). The question still remains: is it safe to buy their products again, especially motherboards.

The reason I'm asking is that ASUS is about the only manufacturer enabling support for ECC memory on their AMD boards (Intel boards require a specific chipset, although no longer also a specific CPU). There's also ASRock, but I can't tell which of their motherboard series is top tier and which isn't, except for the Taichi series. My problem with the Taichi is that it's an EATX motherboard which my case can't fit properly. And of course it's also top tier when it comes to price.

The exploding issue hasn't been in play for a while now. Capped SOC put an end to that, and even then best practice is still to run lowest SOC possible, usually far lower than 1.3V is doable. Some people believe higher fabric likes lower VSOC, not higher.

And honestly, root cause was probably still bad silicon quality variance on AMD's part, exacerbated by bad board vendor practices. As production time goes on, CPU quality gets more consistent at AMD, so in any case it's a non-issue now

Buy Asus if you like the product. I wouldn't, because I don't find any of their AM5 boards compelling, with the exception of Gene which apparently killed CPUs and is EOL. It's not like I don't have gripes with my Gigabyte and ASRock boards either.

I don't see a reason to bring other wildly different Asus products into the discussion here. Asus support will always be mediocre, but products are not the same.

 

[chrcoluk]

I think its fine, but I would take an approach I will be taking from now on, which is to be sceptical about something configured as "auto".

Manually tune in spec voltages, power limits, disable vendor things like "asus performance booster" and so on.

 

[ir_cow]

Buy Asus if you like the product. I wouldn't, because I don't find any of their AM5 boards compelling, with the exception of Gene which apparently killed CPUs and is EOL.

Just got a Gene a few days ago to be my new test system. Haven't heard about the gene exclusively killing CPUs besides the SoC thing. You'll know if it does because I won't have AMD testing anymore .

But all seriousness, it is still be updated with new BIOS just a few weeks ago. Will check the voltages with probe before commiting to use.

 

[evernessince]

Even the Merlin version?

The Merlin firmware is better and more powerful than stock for sure but it shouldn't require 3rd party firmware to fix ASUS's garbage. I think DUMA OS used by netgear for it's high-end routers is vastly better than the stock ASUS firmware and while not as powerful as Merlin it's easier to use and it's visual presentation of a lot of the data is a definite advantage over both the stock and 3rd party merlin firmware.

And honestly, root cause was probably still bad silicon quality variance on AMD's part, exacerbated by bad board vendor practices. As production time goes on, CPU quality gets more consistent at AMD, so in any case it's a non-issue now

You are completely correct but ultimatley if ASUS had implemented basic protection features that they were supposed to have, the issue would have never snowballed to the point where the processor kills itself and the board. It's entirely unacceptable to flub such basic and necessary protection features.

 

[Carlyle2020hs]

The particular issue mentioned has been solved.

As to the question if asus has changed:

Imho asus is still alienating its old userbase by (like apple) gateing in its userbase into its own hardware universe and failing to deliver (a smooth experience).
Its software side is already infested with predatory practices, because those still work like a treat.
Looking at their quality control and choice of materials they still have growing pains and are having a hard time in the background and thus are having to raise prices even if they sometimes don´t really want to anymore.

But that´s just my experience as a .. let´s call it slightly singed ex-fanboy.

 

[A Computer Guy]

There's been a lot of controversy about ASUS and their (beta) BIOS frying several CPUs, after which ASUS tried to wash their hands with a "warranty voided" disclaimer. On top of that apparently quite a bit of faulty motherboards seem to reach the retail channel. From what I've learned ASUS may have seen the error of their ways and done a 180 (more or less). The question still remains: is it safe to buy their products again, especially motherboards.

The reason I'm asking is that ASUS is about the only manufacturer enabling support for ECC memory on their AMD boards (Intel boards require a specific chipset, although no longer also a specific CPU). There's also ASRock, but I can't tell which of their motherboard series is top tier and which isn't, except for the Taichi series. My problem with the Taichi is that it's an EATX motherboard which my case can't fit properly. And of course it's also top tier when it comes to price.

Asrock is listing ECC support on their motherboard pages again however I don't see any ECC on QVL lists recently so some internet searches needed to see who has tried what combination. ECC support was one of the things I was waiting for from AM5. Initially they listed it then pulled it back which put me off from buying into the platform for awhile until they figured things out.

In AM4 I think a vast majority of Asrock AM4 boards supported ECC (including the cheap ones) so I was kind of expecting the same thing with AM5 but I have yet to see any listings in the QVL.

 

[Event Horizon]

I'm not going to be dramatic and say never, but it will take a few gens before I could trust them again.

 

[DaemonForce]

It's entirely unacceptable to flub such basic and necessary protection features.

I think it's fine. Asus can do what they want in regards to safety if it's deemed reasonable and it probably was during the moments of their abysmal QA routines and support tickets. What's unacceptable is Asus threatening their customers with unhonored warranties over a BETA BIOS FLASH that they themselves pushed public. Like have some accountability, damn.

My first board was an Asus for Super 7. It was great but I so badly needed USB support and needed a CPU faster than 400MHz.
Went ABit for Socket 478 and had everything I needed, for a while.
Went Asus once again for Socket AM3 and that was kind of a bad move. Had to replace it a few years later as it was unstable and unusable.
Went Biostar and that gave me everything I really wanted and needed out of a consumer board except USB3 and the durability to survive my jank experiments.
Replaced again going Gigglebyte and that was my first experience with UEFI and a board that could not lock BCLK. Maybe this is what pushed me to Ryzen a year later.
Picked an Asus board for Ryzen 3000. TUF is a great board and it makes me realize I missed something special by skipping Sabertooth.

When I retire this board, thankfully I can slump it into my rack because it can take full size ATX boards. I'll miss having FX in a 2U so that's automatically the first major casualty. Ryzen in a 2U doesn't....Inspire confidence in me given the time and struggle of setting this up to be "stable" and it was more to the point that I could get reasonably stable overclocks out of FX depending on the board, which still weirds me out that there's a difference.

I will most likely continue this hopscotch of picking Asus when I need an entry into a new platform and know nothing about it and going with the Biostar hotrod option when I stop caring about user experience enough to max the raw performance as quickly as possible with the most overclocker unfriendly layout. So is Asus safe? I think it's the safest choice for any x86 PC. Is it the best choice? Flip a coin.

 

[AsRock]

Yep it was fixed when AMD issued a mandatory changed to limit SoC voltage to 1.3. Whatever AGESA 1.0.0.7 was implemented into the BIOS.

The last time i reset my bios to default ( last patch ) it ran 1.49v by default.

 

[ir_cow]

The last time i reset my bios to default ( last patch ) it ran 1.49v by default.

For the SoC? Sure it wasn't the Vcore ?

 

[azrael]

Thanks for all your input, peeps! Much appreciated. I'm not only considering that particular issue with the beta BIOS frying CPUs. I mostly took it as the example that was the final straw for some people. Luckily, in the past I've never really needed ASUS support. At least not from a hardware perspective. I also steer clear of any and all software ASUS provides unless I simply cannot avoid it.

The situation with AMD boards and ECC has pretty much been the same for AM4. ASUS supports it and then ASRock. None of the other manufacturers do.

For ASUS I currently have two boards on the radar, the Prime X670-P (CSM) and the ROG Strix B650E-F Gaming WiFi. The former because it's the cheapest X670 board you can seemingly get (but perhaps that's a negative in its own right) and the latter because it's on sale at the moment and seems like a well-featured board.

We can agree that ASUS quality has been going down over the past decades. Since the mid-90s ASUS has been my go-to for motherboards and I've owned mostly only ASUS boards (had an ABIT briefly, but replaced it with an ASUS). With regard to motherboards I think it really went downhill when they outsourced production to Elite Group.

As for ASRock, I'm still at a loss as for which series of theirs to go for. They're not really helping narrowing it down either.

By EEC memory you mean beyond that already in DDR5?

No, I mean the actual ECC feature. For DDR5 I believe it's referred to as side-band ECC. The type you're thinking of, On-Die ECC, is mandatory for DDR5.

 

[A Computer Guy]

Thanks for all your input, peeps! Much appreciated. I'm not only considering that particular issue with the beta BIOS frying CPUs. I mostly took it as the example that was the final straw for some people. Luckily, in the past I've never really needed ASUS support. At least not from a hardware perspective. I also steer clear of any and all software ASUS provides unless I simply cannot avoid it.

The situation with AMD boards and ECC has pretty much been the same for AM4. ASUS supports it and then ASRock. None of the other manufacturers do.

For ASUS I currently have two boards on the radar, the Prime X670-P (CSM) and the ROG Strix B650E-F Gaming WiFi. The former because it's the cheapest X670 board you can seemingly get (but perhaps that's a negative in its own right) and the latter because it's on sale at the moment and seems like a well-featured board.

We can agree that ASUS quality has been going down over the past decades. Since the mid-90s ASUS has been my go-to for motherboards and I've owned mostly only ASUS boards (had an ABIT briefly, but replaced it with an ASUS). With regard to motherboards I think it really went downhill when they outsourced production to Elite Group.

As for ASRock, I'm still at a loss as for which series of theirs to go for. They're not really helping narrowing it down either.


No, I mean the actual ECC feature. For DDR5 I believe it's referred to as side-band ECC. The type you're thinking of, On-Die ECC, is mandatory for DDR5.

I haven't seen many reviews yet but B650E Steel Legend looks like a solid choice, has 2 monitor outputs, and appears well balanced to me between USB, NVMe, and PCIe slots (and right now only about $200). Other than ECC are there any other particular features that are a must for you?

ASRock X670E Steel Legend Overview by Level1Techs Sep 27 2022

 

[de.das.dude]

ive gone asrock since 2010 and never looked back. Asus was terrible to me. Their products in general are terrible and dont stand up to heavy use. note that this is just circumstantial evidence from me.

 

[AsRock]

For the SoC? Sure it wasn't the Vcore ?

Just checked and yes that's the Vcore which jumps from 1.44v to 1.5v, and as far as i can tell the SoC is from 1.032v to 1.28v

Oops.. Checked by loading defaults, how ever the bios did lock up while checking this so there is that which it did back when the board was released.

I don't think i will bother with ASUS just because of the forced rainbow puke they force. At least with ASRock they allowed or at least used to allow you to change in bios.

 

[azrael]

I haven't seen many reviews yet but B650E Steel Legend looks like a solid choice, has 2 monitor outputs, and appears well balanced to me between USB, NVMe, and PCIe slots (and right now only about $200). Other than ECC are there any other particular features that are a must for you?

ASRock X670E Steel Legend Overview by Level1Techs Sep 27 2022

A bit like my current motherboard would be nice, just for AM5. I know that sounds a bit vague, but it's true. I like no-nonsense approaches, i.e. no RGB is a plus, as many PCIe slots as possible is also great. But most of all, it just needs to be stable and well-supported.

 

[freeagent]

As it stands right now I would have no problem buying Asus. But not their lower end stuff.

 

[Knight47]

I wouldn't buy AssRack since they didn't even acknowledge burning not 3D cpu's, while Asus burned only 3D.
Msi took quite a while to fix slow boot times and released NVMe breaking biosses and shifted the blame on AMD. Gigabyte boards like to coil whine alot.
That leaves Biostar as the only reliable brand.

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
Frankly I believe the asus tax has become way to high so I'd pass.

 

[tabascosauz]

A bit like my current motherboard would be nice, just for AM5. I know that sounds a bit vague, but it's true. I like no-nonsense approaches, i.e. no RGB is a plus, as many PCIe slots as possible is also great. But most of all, it just needs to be stable and well-supported.

Have you checked out the AM5 list? Makes it easy to decide.

AM5 Motherboards Sheet (X670/B650/A620) - Google Drive

docs.google.com

As it stands right now I would have no problem buying Asus. But not their lower end stuff.

AM5 Prime boards *shiver* someone should tell MSI/Gigabyte/Asus that boards of that caliber should be plain illegal