Is there any advantage over using 2 seperate audio jacks?

[mclaren85]

Nowadays, many -if not all- laptop manufacturers offer only one audio/mic jack which is called as "combo jack". However in my latest desktop rig, there are 2 seperate 3,5mm jack for mic and headphone input in the front. Apart from space saving purposes, what else the advantages could be in mixing these two jacks? Is there any advantage one type to another? Put it short, which one is better?

 

[caroline!]

Laptops use a combo jack to allow users to plug in a hands-free set with earbuds and mic, you know because they're portable and all.
A normie isn't gonna carry an USB DAC, amp, pro headset and separate mic just to use Skype or whatever.

Having a separate jack for the mic allows you to use a greater range of mics than one meant for phone calls. You can also (mostly) configure the jacks on a desktop mobo to offer multiple outputs for the same or separate streams of audio, you can play something with a pair of speakers while listening to something else with your headphones plugged into the front jack.

There's no "better" they're just different implementations of the same technology, each with different use cases in mind.

 

[Bill_Bright]

There are three main reasons for using a single combo jack vs 2 discreet jacks. (1) Money. Two jacks cost more than one and not just the cost of the parts, but also the internal circuitry for them, designing placement, drilling of holes, assembly, etc. And, (2) wires. Even with a PC, reducing the number of wires is preferred. In mobile scenarios, it is even more desirable to have one wire that might get in our way instead of twos. (3) Fewer parts mean fewer potentials for part failures.

Having said that, it also boils down to what caroline! said about hands free headsets - they use a single wire and jack.

As far as "sound quality", I also agree with caroline! One is not better than the other just because of the number of jacks. Other factors determine that.

 

[Lei]

Some boards use the same ground pin for battery (power source) and speakers. That's bad. Such as in MH-M18

I found that when power passes through the on/off key, it lowers the audio quality. So it's important to have good keys. I use a crimp connector instead of a toggle key. Phosphors bronze is better than brass at contact point.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Some boards use the same ground pin for battery (power source) and speakers. That's bad.

No its not. When it comes to audio, and in particular, mitigating audio interference, it is always best to have a "common" ground and pathways that are as short as possible.

I found that when power passes through the on/off key, it lowers the audio quality.

This makes no sense. Power and audio are separate - even when they are carried by the same conductor.

So it's important to have good keys.

True - but that has nothing to do with your claims.

Plus, the MH-M18 integrates Bluetooth - hardly representative of this scenario.

One must not assume an anecdotal experience is the norm for the entire industry.

 

[Lei]

No its not. When it comes to audio, and in particular, mitigating audio interference, it is always best to have a "common" ground and pathways that are as short as possible.

You could be right about this. It was harder to solder two cables to one pin. So I found it more convenient to use M28

This makes no sense. Power and audio are separate - even when they are carried by the same conductor.

This one I can't agree. Even though power is separated, when the audio device is not receiving clean power, it contains a lot of noise specially when music is light or paused.
I had my Bluetooth initially without toggle key, then I added key to save battery from draining. But the noise made me nuts, so I opt to crimp instead.

The noise was gone, without any changes to audio cables, the culprit was power and the toggle key on its way.

plus, the MH-M18 integrates Bluetooth - hardly representative of this scenario.

One must not assume an anecdotal experience is the norm for the entire industry.

I was trying to tell him that audio quality.... I was telling him the following:

Other factors determine that.

 

[Tahagomizer]

The "combo jack" is a cost cutting and technology dumbing-down measure, but, as others mentioned, there is no quality advantage to separating the connectors unless there is quality hardware elsewhere. There are some mechanical and usability advantages but most people care for convenience and not quality.

 

[Bill_Bright]

This one I can't agree. Even though power is separated, when the audio device is not receiving clean power

You are once again, using an anecdotal example - an exception to the rule - then trying to apply that to the rest of the world. It doesn't work that way. Nobody (but you) are talking about dirty power.

If a device is receiving dirty power, that is not the fault of the device.

I had my Bluetooth initially without toggle key, then I added key to save battery from draining. But the noise made me nuts, so I opt to crimp instead.

So yet again, you are trying to use your anecdotal example and apply it to the entire universe. I am glad you got your problem sorted out but you must not assume all such devices everywhere behave that way. They don't.

This last winter, my neighbor kept the fuel tank on his truck near empty much of the time. That is a big mistake in my part of the world. This resulted in too much condensation and water build up in the tank and the fuel lines for his V8 engine froze. Does that mean all V8s are bad and he should have bought a V6 truck instead? Of course not. But that's the rationale you are using here.

the culprit was power and the toggle key on its way.

Did you change the power? No. So it is more likely the power was just fine and it was a cheap toggle, and/or dirty contacts.

As a side note, if I have a choice, I will take a solder connection over a crimp any day.

I was trying to tell him that audio quality....

Okay, but that's not what you said. You made a statement-of-fact claiming "power through the on/off key lowers quality". Maybe in your specific example, but not as a rule.

 

[Lei]

Put it short, which one is better?

Separate is better.
See this mic, how are you going to connect it to combo? Use an adaptor for a 170$ mic?

As a side note, if I have a choice, I will take a solder connection over a crimp any day.

And you hold your heat gun as soon as you want the device off? Or charge the next day

 

[Bill_Bright]

Heat gun? No. Soldering pencil.

Separate is better.
See this mic, how are you going to connect it to combo?

LOL

And yet again, you use an anecdotal example.

What about one of these? Clearly, with its single jack, it proves a combo jack is ALWAYS better!

 

[caroline!]

My God. But WHY would you use a radio station microphone in a LAPTOP?? it makes no sense, no sane person would do that.
It's a portable computer, I have one for my work and although I never use the mic I just put it in my backpack with a pair of cheap earbuds to listen to some music.

 

[Bill_Bright]

But WHY would you use a radio station microphone in a LAPTOP??

I wondered that too. I guess if you use your laptop as a PC... then I have to wonder why not just have a PC?

 

[caroline!]

I wondered that too. I guess if you use your laptop as a PC... then I have to wonder why not just have a PC?

laptop desktop users are an odd kind indeed.

on topic with audio jacks, I've rarely used any other than a single rear jack for the speakers and the front one for earbuds.

 

[mclaren85]

Separate is better.
See this mic, how are you going to connect it to combo? Use an adaptor for a 170$ mic?

View attachment 297848

And you hold your heat gun as soon as you want the device off? Or charge the next day

Do you think is it better than the built-in microphones?

 

[Bill_Bright]

Do you think is it better than the built-in microphones?

You need to define what YOU mean by "better". Better can mean all sorts of different things, depending on the requirements and priorities of the user.

That is, you need to decide what characteristics have a higher priority for YOU.

Some users may place sensitivity first. Others convenience. Others efficiency. Some may want a lightweight mic, others may not care. Some may want a small mic, others may not care. Some may want white, others black. And some may place audio accuracy first. Other characteristics include polar response, noise suppression, frequency response, ruggedness, noise canceling, and many more.

No one microphone is "better" at everything.

I would not use a built in microphone for several reasons, unless it was my only option. My reasons include the fact it would either pick up the fan noise/vibration of the cooling fan(s) OR it would be designed to filter out that noise. And if designed to filter out that noise, it most likely would also filter out desirable sounds in that same frequency range. Not good - in terms of my priorities.

But for me, the primary reason is I would have to constantly hold my head in the same position. When on a Zoom call, I MUCH prefer a head set where the microphone always stays in the same spot relative to my mouth.

 

[mclaren85]

You need to define what YOU mean by "better". Better can mean all sorts of different things, depending on the requirements and priorities of the user.

That is, you need to decide what characteristics have a higher priority for YOU.

Some users may place sensitivity first. Others convenience. Others efficiency. Some may want a lightweight mic, others may not care. Some may want a small mic, others may not care. Some may want white, others black. And some may place audio accuracy first. Other characteristics include polar response, noise suppression, frequency response, ruggedness, noise canceling, and many more.

No one microphone is "better" at everything.

I would not use a built in microphone for several reasons, unless it was my only option. My reasons include the fact it would either pick up the fan noise/vibration of the cooling fan(s) OR it would be designed to filter out that noise. And if designed to filter out that noise, it most likely would also filter out desirable sounds in that same frequency range. Not good - in terms of my priorities.

But for me, the primary reason is I would have to constantly hold my head in the same position. When on a Zoom call, I MUCH prefer a head set where the microphone always stays in the same spot relative to my mouth.

Thank you for your question.

By saying better, my intention was how clear the sound is being transmitted to pc. Was it more crispier than the built-in laptop mic? Can average user detect the difference if any?

 

[Bill_Bright]

Can average user detect the difference if any?

Again, there are too many variables to give any sort of definitive answer.

You cannot lump all integrated microphones together. Acer, for example, sells laptops priced at under $200 all the way up to $2,500. Can we assume they use the same quality microphones and the same associated sound processing devices in all their laptops? Of course not.

Can we assume MSI, ASUS, HP and Dell all use the same integrated microphones? No.

By the same token, you cannot lump all stand-alone external microphones together. Would you expect this off-brand $2.61 "Gaming Microphone" to have the same sound quality as this $15,500 Sony Professional mic?

No doubt there are some quality integrated microphones that are much more accurate than many stand alone microphones. And the other way around, too.

Then of course, recording the sound is only the first half of the entire process. You cannot hear a recorded sound. It has to be reproduced or "played back" through pre-amplifiers and amplifiers then through speakers - any and all of which have different characteristics that often, especially by the trained ear, can be heard.

And also, lets not forget that here, we are talking about these recordings being saved in digital format. That means AFTER the microphone picks up the "analog" sound (and remember, all sound is analog! Let me repeat that - ALL SOUND IS ANALOG!) it must be converted to digital through a ADC (analog-to-digital converter) before it is saved to disk. Then when played back, it must be converted back to analog through a DAC (digital-to-analog converter), then sent to the amplifier stages and out to the speaker where the sound is reproduced, then transmitted (as an analog signal) through the air to our ears.

All sorts of distortion may be introduced along the way during those conversion, amplification, and reproduction stages. And just as there are different quality microphones, there are different quality ADC/DAC devices, different quality amplification devices, and definitely different quality sound reproducers (speakers).

Can average user detect the difference if any?

Yes. No. Maybe. It depends.

 

[80-watt Hamster]

Thank you for your question.

By saying better, my intention was how clear the sound is being transmitted to pc. Was it more crispier than the built-in laptop mic? Can average user detect the difference if any?

I'mma go ahead and generalize a little bit here, but not before asking for some clarification: Are you asking about:

1) The microphone built into the laptop, or...

2) A microphone connected to the laptop's combo jack...

Compared to:

a) A microphone connected to the Mic In jack of a PC, or...

b) Something else?

 

[caroline!]

Built-in mics are acceptable quality considering they're meant for conferencing or voice chat. Not super high end but the person on the other end will understand what you're saying.

 

[mclaren85]

Built-in mics are acceptable quality considering they're meant for conferencing or voice chat. Not super high end but the person on the other end will understand what you're saying.

My point is could the person on the other end tell the difference using a seperate and expensive mic?

I'mma go ahead and generalize a little bit here, but not before asking for some clarification: Are you asking about:

1) The microphone built into the laptop, or...

2) A microphone connected to the laptop's combo jack...

Compared to:

a) A microphone connected to the Mic In jack of a PC, or...

b) Something else?

My first question was is there any difference between the combo versus separate jacks. Second, are separate mics better at transmitting the signal quality?

 

[caroline!]

My point is could the person on the other end tell the difference using a seperate and expensive mic?


My first question was is there any difference between the combo versus separate jacks. Second, are separate mics better at transmitting the signal quality?

An audiophile might but if you ask me I couldn't care less if you're using a 25 grand mic, it also depends on the speakers. If I only use the mono speaker on my laptop then pretty much everything will sound exactly the same.
It's a small 13" machine, not too great when it comes to specs but comes with a huge battery which is why I use it ^^

 

[Bill_Bright]

My point is could the person on the other end tell the difference using a seperate and expensive mic?

My first question was is there any difference between the combo versus separate jacks. Second, are separate mics better at transmitting the signal quality?

You keep asking the same, very general and ambiguous questions over and over gain as though you expect the answers to change.

The answer (1 answer applicable to all your questions) remains the same. There are too many variables for anyone to answer with any sort of realistic accuracy or applicability.

It is like asking, "Are cars are better than trucks?"

For what? For who? What car? What truck? What color is the truck?

If you want a realistic, accurate answer, ask a specific question. For example, "Is the integrated microphone in the Acme 15" Laptop Model ABC better than the stand-alone microphone from Krusty K, Model XYZ?"

Then and only then can a proper and realistic comparison be made, and a realistic and accurate answer be given.

 

[80-watt Hamster]

My point is could the person on the other end tell the difference using a seperate and expensive mic?


My first question was is there any difference between the combo versus separate jacks. Second, are separate mics better at transmitting the signal quality?

The caveat to the below is that Bill is correct: There are too many variables to reliably answer a question this broad. But IN GENERAL:

A combo jack shouldn't affect your microphone signal quality in any meaningful way. Jack size starts to matter when you need physical robustness, or are dealing with large amounts of current. The combo jack on a PC or laptop does not need to meet either of those requirements. Current in a mic signal is ridiculously small, so the difference in contact area between a combo and discrete jack is negligible. The only way for it to matter would be if there was somehow crosstalk between the mic and speaker signals, but laptop construction is so compact to make that a risk even with separate jacks. So short answer: No, a listener on the other side of your microphone will not notice a difference between a combo or discrete mic jack.

Your second question starts to get at the heart of the matter: Microphone quality. This is arguably the single most important factor to a clean feed for your listener. A good mic positioned proper distance and direction from your mouth will be worlds better than any built-in microphone. But remember that "good" does not equal "expensive"! On video calls at work, one of the clearest voices was simply using the mic on his Apple (could have been Samsung) wired earbuds, while others with expensive office-focused headsets or even supposedly-decent desktop mics sounded noticeably worse. This comes down to space and design. Mics on mobile headsets are designed to be (and usually are) a certain position from the mouth, and to expect and deal with open spaces and background noise. Office headsets are, too, but for some reason many of them do it poorly. Most microphones are extremely sensitive to echo, and all have their own pickup patterns and frequency response curves. Some have a certain amount of noise-canceling built in.

If your goal is to be heard clearly by others through your PC, the easiest, most reliable way I know of without spending a bunch of money is to get yourself a reasonably recent pair of Apple/Samsung wired buds, preferably from the Galaxy S series on the Sammie side. Second is to grab a USB microphone. Blue is pretty good, and Samson is okay, there are certainly others I'm not familiar with. Interestingly, I have an ancient Logitech desktop mic (see below) that genuinely impressed an audio nerd (as in, went to school for audio production) friend with its output quality. But no matter what you choose, record yourself talking and tweak your settings, setup and space to get a sound you're happy with. But keep in mind your voice will sound weird to you when played back.

Spoiler: Old Logi mic

 

[mclaren85]

The caveat to the below is that Bill is correct: There are too many variables to reliably answer a question this broad. But IN GENERAL:

A combo jack shouldn't affect your microphone signal quality in any meaningful way. Jack size starts to matter when you need physical robustness, or are dealing with large amounts of current. The combo jack on a PC or laptop does not need to meet either of those requirements. Current in a mic signal is ridiculously small, so the difference in contact area between a combo and discrete jack is negligible. The only way for it to matter would be if there was somehow crosstalk between the mic and speaker signals, but laptop construction is so compact to make that a risk even with separate jacks. So short answer: No, a listener on the other side of your microphone will not notice a difference between a combo or discrete mic jack.

Your second question starts to get at the heart of the matter: Microphone quality. This is arguably the single most important factor to a clean feed for your listener. A good mic positioned proper distance and direction from your mouth will be worlds better than any built-in microphone. But remember that "good" does not equal "expensive"! On video calls at work, one of the clearest voices was simply using the mic on his Apple (could have been Samsung) wired earbuds, while others with expensive office-focused headsets or even supposedly-decent desktop mics sounded noticeably worse. This comes down to space and design. Mics on mobile headsets are designed to be (and usually are) a certain position from the mouth, and to expect and deal with open spaces and background noise. Office headsets are, too, but for some reason many of them do it poorly. Most microphones are extremely sensitive to echo, and all have their own pickup patterns and frequency response curves. Some have a certain amount of noise-canceling built in.

If your goal is to be heard clearly by others through your PC, the easiest, most reliable way I know of without spending a bunch of money is to get yourself a reasonably recent pair of Apple/Samsung wired buds, preferably from the Galaxy S series on the Sammie side. Second is to grab a USB microphone. Blue is pretty good, and Samson is okay, there are certainly others I'm not familiar with. Interestingly, I have an ancient Logitech desktop mic (see below) that genuinely impressed an audio nerd (as in, went to school for audio production) friend with its output quality. But no matter what you choose, record yourself talking and tweak your settings, setup and space to get a sound you're happy with. But keep in mind your voice will sound weird to you when played back.

Spoiler: Old Logi mic

View attachment 298576

Thanks so much for this text book explanation! Much appreciated